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World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Everything Canada (goaltending, coaching, future)

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Old
01-06-2013, 08:06 AM
  #626
maroon 6
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Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
Bad article. Once again a lot of talk about this mystical under performing, laying and egg, etc.

No mention of even a possibility of other countries having better hockey teams.

Nope, never, Canada always beats itself, under performs, selects the wrong players, is missing players, has a worse selection procedure than USA yada yada yada.

Excuses galore.
A 6-7 game tourny does not decide which team is better...

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01-06-2013, 08:07 AM
  #627
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Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
Bad article. Once again a lot of talk about this mystical under performing, laying and egg, etc.

No mention of even a possibility of other countries having better hockey teams.

Nope, never, Canada always beats itself, under performs, selects the wrong players, is missing players, has a worse selection procedure than USA yada yada yada.

Excuses galore.
Other teams play better as a group than did Canada. However, Canada always had and always will have better individual players. There is only a handfull of players who could even make Team Canada from other nations. There is not even debatable.

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01-06-2013, 08:11 AM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
No longer are the other teams far inferior to the best teams of Canada and Russia.
At senior level that has been true for 40 years.

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01-06-2013, 08:14 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Landeskog Rocks View Post
Do they now? Do you really think NHL would been where it is today without Europeans. Retard thread!
Of course they have the best players in the world. Get real.

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01-06-2013, 08:15 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by maroon 6 View Post
A 6-7 game tourny does not decide which team is better...
Unless Canada wins, right?

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01-06-2013, 08:21 AM
  #631
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Rn-h

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01-06-2013, 08:26 AM
  #632
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Well, at least the good news for Hockey Canada in all this...the lockout ended exactly the right time, otherwise they would have felt the heat for a few weeks longer...

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01-06-2013, 08:36 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
Other teams play better as a group than did Canada. However, Canada always had and always will have better individual players. There is only a handfull of players who could even make Team Canada from other nations. There is not even debatable.
Oh, really? It we would take this particular WJHC only one player from team Canada could have made it to USA roster. Talking about bigger stages there are a plenty of players that could make team Canada. The best forward is Russian, the best goalie is Swede the best def is LIKELY Canadian (though I would personally take Chara).

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01-06-2013, 08:41 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by DamonDRW View Post
Oh, really? It we would take this particular WJHC only one player from team Canada could have made it to USA roster. Talking about bigger stages there are a plenty of players that could make team Canada. The best forward is Russian, the best goalie is Swede the best def is LIKELY Canadian (though I would personally take Chara).
Why do you even bother wasting your time. You have your opinion and we have ours. What we think makes no difference to you and your opinion means nothing to us... so don't waste your time arguing, move on and enjoy something else in life. Let me reiterate if you are slow in the uptake, your opinion to us means jack ****

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01-06-2013, 08:42 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by jfc64 View Post
Rn-h
Totally!

The guy who was only in on 15 of Canada's 27 goals is solely to blame for the lack of medal.



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01-06-2013, 08:44 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
Bad article. Once again a lot of talk about this mystical under performing, laying and egg, etc.

No mention of even a possibility of other countries having better hockey teams.

Nope, never, Canada always beats itself, under performs, selects the wrong players, is missing players, has a worse selection procedure than USA yada yada yada.

Excuses galore.
No mention of other teams having solid programs??

"The Americans have now won two gold medals in the last four years, which maybe serves notice they've truly arrived as the power at this tournament, unless you choose to read more into their seventh-place finish last year in Alberta.

Or maybe it's the Swedes, who won gold last year and appeared in the gold-medal game this year, the day after Sweden won the Under-17 World Hockey Challenge, although you can't not mention that last year's gold medal was the Swedes first at the WJC since 1981.

And the Russians, oh, the Russians. In each of the last three years -- the miracle third period comeback in the gold medal game in Buffalo, the wild semi-final victory in Calgary last year and this year's bronze medal overtime contest -- the Russians have beaten Canada when it counts."

Did you read this article or stop after the first line??

By the way, a much belated congrats to the USA for a great win

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01-06-2013, 08:47 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
No mention of other teams having solid programs??

"The Americans have now won two gold medals in the last four years, which maybe serves notice they've truly arrived as the power at this tournament, unless you choose to read more into their seventh-place finish last year in Alberta.

Or maybe it's the Swedes, who won gold last year and appeared in the gold-medal game this year, the day after Sweden won the Under-17 World Hockey Challenge, although you can't not mention that last year's gold medal was the Swedes first at the WJC since 1981.

And the Russians, oh, the Russians. In each of the last three years -- the miracle third period comeback in the gold medal game in Buffalo, the wild semi-final victory in Calgary last year and this year's bronze medal overtime contest -- the Russians have beaten Canada when it counts."

Did you read this article or stop after the first line??

By the way, a much belated congrats to the USA for a great win
Of course he didn't read the article...why would he? He'd have nothing to ***** about if he did.

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01-06-2013, 08:53 AM
  #638
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I thought it was a good article as well. I thought Bob covered all the bases. To me, Canada should be the favorite at the event every year, and when they don't win something unusual has happened. That's not to discredit other teams (such as the U.S.)-just a fact. That said, there are a handful of countries that can be expected to CHALLENGE for gold every year, and if they do win that shouldn't be a surprise nor send Canadians into a tailspin. It's a very short and intense tournament that relies on single-elimination format. You can be dominant (or close to it) all tourney long and than fall short in the game that matters and voila-you're done. It happened to Canada this year, it happened to the U.S. in Buffalo when they met Canada in the semis coming off a bye. Of deeper concern appears to be Canada's "failures" over a four year stretch. There are significant questions about goaltender and coaching quality that has to be addressed.

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01-06-2013, 08:53 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Of course he didn't read the article...why would he? He'd have nothing to ***** about if he did.


Love it, always leaves me doing when I read fans reactions to an article/story/video who have not taken the time to actually read it.

If anything, BM is about as realistic as they come when discussing the "issues" within Hockey Canada`s program.

I have no answers however I wonder if having a coach who was behind the bench on say a 2-3 year deal for continuity could be of benefit?? I`m also a firm believer that the selection process should be simple, you take the absolute best of the best. It appears as though the selection process has become too tactical.

I`m probably waaaaaaay off base there but...either way, I`m always proud of these kids, they play under pressure and expectations that are so out of wack they can never meet them if they don`t win a Gold medal, it`s downright ludicrous

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01-06-2013, 08:56 AM
  #640
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tl,dr.

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01-06-2013, 09:01 AM
  #641
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There's nothing insightful about it: junior success comes in cycles, now you have it, now you don't. All this stuff about why Americans are succesfull... It's a preparation system which is no better than Canadian... so relax

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01-06-2013, 09:01 AM
  #642
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
Other teams play better as a group than did Canada. However, Canada always had and always will have better individual players. There is only a handfull of players who could even make Team Canada from other nations. There is not even debatable.
Then the Canadians should form a skills tournament or something, but the simple fact is that it is a team tournament and if Canada can't, with it's best players, beat teams with lesser players, then perhaps your definition of best and better need to be changed.

As for the article, I didn't find it bad, but I wasn't even sure what Mac's point, other than "don't panic, don't point fingers" was. It seemed to be, "Yeah we lost, and who really knows why. I might be coaching, but he's a good coach. It might be injuries or penalties or some bad plays or it might be that that the puck bounces funny sometimes, and besides USA, Russia and Sweden haven't done well in other years."

I like Bob a lot, and I agreed with a lot of what he said, but I would have liked to have seen his actual thoughts about what went wrong and how to fix it. Seems like he's saying nothing went wrong, those are just the breaks.

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01-06-2013, 09:02 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post


Love it, always leaves me doing when I read fans reactions to an article/story/video who have not taken the time to actually read it.

If anything, BM is about as realistic as they come when discussing the "issues" within Hockey Canada`s program.

I have no answers however I wonder if having a coach who was behind the bench on say a 2-3 year deal for continuity could be of benefit?? I`m also a firm believer that the selection process should be simple, you take the absolute best of the best. It appears as though the selection process has become too tactical.

I`m probably waaaaaaay off base there but...either way, I`m always proud of these kids, they play under pressure and expectations that are so out of wack they can never meet them if they don`t win a Gold medal, it`s downright ludicrous
Bobby Mac goes out of his way to be level headed and go at everything from every possible angle...just some people (foreigners) have a grievance or a bone to pick with everything associated with Hockey Canada, Canadian fans, Canadian hockey, so they are not going to let something like reasoning get in the way of their chance to take a stab...just reinforces Canada's role of the Alpha Males in the pecking order. If the USA wins 5 in a row, I'm sure the Americans will be firmly in the cross-hairs of our European comrades. Cheers! Happy Sunday. I have a lot of ideas for Hockey Canada, stay turned... but I have a flight to catch.

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01-06-2013, 09:04 AM
  #644
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Bobby Mac goes out of his way to be level headed and go at everything from every possible angle...just some people (foreigners) have a grievance or a bone to pick with everything associated with Hockey Canada, Canadian fans, Canadian hockey, so they are not going to let something like reasoning get in the way of their chance to take a stab...just reinforces Canada's role of the Alpha Males in the pecking order. If the USA wins 5 in a row, I'm sure the Americans will be firmly in the cross-hairs of our European comrades. Cheers! Happy Sunday. I have a lot of ideas for Hockey Canada, stay turned... but I have a flight to catch.
I anxiously await your ideas, safe flight home

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01-06-2013, 09:09 AM
  #645
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These were My basic thoughts yesterday, glad Bobby Mac put it in perspective, this game goes in cycles. Canada will always produce more NHL hockey players than all countries combined. There is more parity in the World, that is good for the game. Glad he also pointed fault at key returning players. Hamilton, Harrington, Strome, Jenner, Huberdeau, ect...and not just Murphy. Collective failure from coaching to players. Canada lost this year, but chances are good we will be on top again are very good if history is any indication.

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01-06-2013, 09:18 AM
  #646
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Bobby Mac goes out of his way to be level headed and go at everything from every possible angle...just some people (foreigners) have a grievance or a bone to pick with everything associated with Hockey Canada, Canadian fans, Canadian hockey, so they are not going to let something like reasoning get in the way of their chance to take a stab
Most people probably didn't read it, because it was too long and not interesting information.

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01-06-2013, 09:23 AM
  #647
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I think it's quite interesting to see a canadian journalist try to reason for the loss. It's sort of common knowledge that canadians expect to win, for every loss there's an excuse from the outside. There's always something wrong with someone else winning. It becomes clear when Mckenzie goes over the last few years winners.

In 2010 and 2013 the US won, but they finished 7th in 2012.
In 2011 Russia won, but it was due to a "miracle comeback" in the 3rd.
In 2012 Sweden won, but it was their first win since 1981.

It's never that the other teams simply were better, there's always a but to diminish their achievement. Sort of like exceptions that confirm the rule of Canadian supremacy.

Though now there seems to be a slight shift in this mentality, albeit very minor. Now it's basically boiled down to the fact that Canada didn't utilize the player selection process efficiently enough. Kind of like: Canada lost, but if we just chose our coaches and players more carefully we would win. It's a bit more introverted reasoning rather than looking at what miracles the other teams pulled off. But still no true acknowledgement of defeat.

I think at some point people just need to accept the fact that Canada lost by being beaten by a better team, and no amount of retro-fitting or reorganizing will change that. I guess that kind of mentality comes with the territory as the "big daddy" of hockey in seasons passed.

Here in Sweden our overall mentality of our teams effort this year is basically:
"We came 2nd this year by being beaten by a superior team. We put in a valiant effort, but the opposition was simply better". You could never even begin to imagine those kinds of words being uttered by a Canadian. I think that's where the biggest gripe against Hockey Canada resides.

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01-06-2013, 09:43 AM
  #648
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Originally Posted by DamonDRW View Post
Oh, really? It we would take this particular WJHC only one player from team Canada could have made it to USA roster. Talking about bigger stages there are a plenty of players that could make team Canada. The best forward is Russian, the best goalie is Swede the best def is LIKELY Canadian (though I would personally take Chara).
The best forward in the tournament was easily RNH hands down.
Only one team Canada player could have made the US team. Wow your knowledge of hockey is limited.

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01-06-2013, 09:51 AM
  #649
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Originally Posted by Nicklas Beaststrom View Post
I think it's quite interesting to see a canadian journalist try to reason for the loss. It's sort of common knowledge that canadians expect to win, for every loss there's an excuse from the outside. There's always something wrong with someone else winning. It becomes clear when Mckenzie goes over the last few years winners.

In 2010 and 2013 the US won, but they finished 7th in 2012.
In 2011 Russia won, but it was due to a "miracle comeback" in the 3rd.
In 2012 Sweden won, but it was their first win since 1981.

It's never that the other teams simply were better, there's always a but to diminish their achievement. Sort of like exceptions that confirm the rule of Canadian supremacy.

Though now there seems to be a slight shift in this mentality, albeit very minor. Now it's basically boiled down to the fact that Canada didn't utilize the player selection process efficiently enough. Kind of like: Canada lost, but if we just chose our coaches and players more carefully we would win. It's a bit more introverted reasoning rather than looking at what miracles the other teams pulled off. But still no true acknowledgement of defeat.

I think at some point people just need to accept the fact that Canada lost by being beaten by a better team, and no amount of retro-fitting or reorganizing will change that. I guess that kind of mentality comes with the territory as the "big daddy" of hockey in seasons passed.

Here in Sweden our overall mentality of our teams effort this year is basically:
"We came 2nd this year by being beaten by a superior team. We put in a valiant effort, but the opposition was simply better". You could never even begin to imagine those kinds of words being uttered by a Canadian. I think that's where the biggest gripe against Hockey Canada resides.
I can only speak for myself, but I actually liked the USA's chances more than Canada's this year. I only saw 3 teams winning gold prior to the start, RUS, CAN, and USA. Sweden would might have been a pick of mine but they had too many injuries, so they were a pleasant surprise.

Canadians will always see this as our game, in a way the posts and thoughts are from a nation expects gold or it is a failure, it may explain why we are usually the team to beat in this tourney or the olympics (post NHL participation) It's a mentality of all Canadians, we are a hockey mad nation, and this is what keeps us on top, abeit a bump here and there.

Now we respect other nations when they win, but the expectation of winning is a healthy conceit. USA were the best team this year, no excuses. I am a fan of their hockey system and the way they play the game. Very Canadian, wonder why we could do this? Their last 3 games were dominating, scores indicated this. I can accept this, you are not going to win every year. So how can I say this without sounding conceited, Sweden, USA, and RUS were better than us this year, congratulations on a fine tournament. There is next year, and I am sure Canada will be the best one year again. Maybe even go on a run of multiple golds as we have before. It's a Healthy respectful conceit Canadians have.

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01-06-2013, 09:54 AM
  #650
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the best thing for the rest of the hockey nations is that Canadians do beliave that there is some external reason to their recent problems at WJHC. At the same time what team USA did to them in this tournament should be very similar to some old Canadian fans. It is called russian style: speed, creative passing plays, and individual skills. That what Russians successfully used against them since 1972.

Look at the recent WJHC Canada teams -- all they played like a good machine. They know where to pass safely, what to do safely etc. Sometimes such style leads to wins, especially, if the other team is making mistakes and refs allow to fully utilize size advantage. However, once they face a truly creative and speedy teams like USA this tournament or Russia two years back they find themselves in troubles and size becomes a liability instead of advantage. Remeber how many times americans passed instead of shooting from good positions? Yes, sometimes it fails but next time it creates a havoc among teenage defenseman as this is something they were not taught to defend.


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