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World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Everything Canada (goaltending, coaching, future)

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Yes 83 55.70%
No 41 27.52%
Maybe/Depends on the situation 25 16.78%
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Old
01-03-2013, 03:50 PM
  #176
Tomas W
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Originally Posted by YARR123 View Post
Nothing has happened - Canada still produces the most top players of all the countries. Just goes to show that level of competition has improved a lot.
I agree. Plus the factor that Canada have had some problems at goaltending. Maybe the coaching hasnt been as good as some of the other teams as well.

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Old
01-03-2013, 03:50 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
100% true.
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Nothing wrong with Canadian hockey development, we have the best junior league and WJC infrastruture - bar none.

You want to ensure continued Canadian domination? Remove the influx of US and European skaters in the CHL. Other nations have as many athletes, if not more, than Canada. What they have always lacked is a competitive development league that the CHL graciously offers. Voila.
I do agree with this. This is essentially the exact same reason that England sucks internationally at Soccer. Too many foreign players taking up all the positions in their league since it's considered the top league.

I don't see the need in having so many American and European players in a Canadian Junior League that exists primarily for development purposes.

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01-03-2013, 03:55 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by clarkebr View Post
Yes, correct.
Winning has come down to skating and puck management.
I would venture to say that of all the elite teams in the Wjc, Canada has the least amount of time to build team play.
We cannot emulate any of the teams preparation because we have a program that does not allow for much specialty training.
I agree, the game is getting faster... But we keep getting slower..

The Americans have speed...
The Russians have skill...
The Swedes have a combination of both...
The Fins are all around good and can play any style...
The Swiss are getting better all around.
All we have is our muscle... We can only play 1 style.

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01-03-2013, 03:55 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
For starters i'd like to congratulate Both the US and Sweden for making it to the Finals. The US just plain outworked Canada and they were by far the better team. They deserved the win.

Now on to the topic at hand. I've been reading over these boards over the past weeks and I see posts blaming Subban or posts blaming Spott (who I think did a **** job), blaming undersized defenseman etc..You can't place blame on one single player or person.

We have to look at this as a collective group. I posted this in another thread and will repost here:

This may be nonsense to most but to me there is far too much "Hollywood" going on for Canada in the world Jr's lately. I'm not sure if it's arrogance or what but overall the players just seem different. Is it they feel too comfortable? Are all of these interviews mid game having an impact on their overall mindset. Do we really need to see what type of drill Ryan Murphy does to improve his footwork?

Get some hard ass Sutter or other old school coach in there and have these kids realize making team Canada and then showing up doesn't give you jack. They haven't won anything yet. The gatorade commercials and press conferences can follow after a gold medal.

-----------------

The overall feel of the World Jr's is just wrong now. It's become a way for major Canadian companies to feed off our emotional attachment to this tournament. Everything is Media this or twitter that. Everything is made far too easy for these players on this team.

Did I hear they had Tuesday off? WHAT? 2 days before the biggest game of some of these kids lives and they have the day off laying around playing video games? I'm trying to make sense of this.

Phil Housley sat one of his best forwards Grimaldi on the pines for almost an entire game.

Get rid of these coddling of egos, get rid of this sense of accomplishment for making team Canada and just showing up, Instill some damn fear into these kids/men (they are mature enough to realize the importance of this tournament to millions of Canadians). Strip away all laptops, cell phones or any type of other distraction, and have them realize that they haven't won anything yet.

Instead of having Ryan Strome worrying about what he's going to say to Nabil Karim on a live interview with TSN, perhaps during the 2nd intermission he should be worrying about how the hell he's going to create some momentum going into the 3rd.

To sum up my rant:

It's not the development of Canadian players, I think it's safe to say Canada had the most talent on paper. There is WAY too much Hollywood and other distractions for Team Canada going into and during the Tournament.
Have to agree with most of this post. It seems Canadian players are getting a bit too cocky lately. I think you can blame TSN and others partly for that.

The US kids wanted this game badly and played with more heart, desire and determination by a wide margin.

Seems lately Canadian kids play for the name on the back of the sweater, not the name on the front.

I don't think I've ever been so embarrassed by the poor effort of a Canadian team than I was today.

Last year I remember them interviewing Tyler Seguin and asked him his thoughts if the Bruins let him play for Canada. He said something like, I'd be disappointed, it was always my dream to play in the NHL.
They asked an American kid the same thing (sorry forget who he is, plays for Carolina) his reply was, it's not in my hands but I would be proud to represent my country.


Last edited by 2525: 01-03-2013 at 04:00 PM.
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01-03-2013, 04:09 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
For starters i'd like to congratulate Both the US and Sweden for making it to the Finals. The US just plain outworked Canada and they were by far the better team. They deserved the win.

Now on to the topic at hand. I've been reading over these boards over the past weeks and I see posts blaming Subban or posts blaming Spott (who I think did a **** job), blaming undersized defenseman etc..You can't place blame on one single player or person.

We have to look at this as a collective group. I posted this in another thread and will repost here:

This may be nonsense to most but to me there is far too much "Hollywood" going on for Canada in the world Jr's lately. I'm not sure if it's arrogance or what but overall the players just seem different. Is it they feel too comfortable? Are all of these interviews mid game having an impact on their overall mindset. Do we really need to see what type of drill Ryan Murphy does to improve his footwork?

Get some hard ass Sutter or other old school coach in there and have these kids realize making team Canada and then showing up doesn't give you jack. They haven't won anything yet. The gatorade commercials and press conferences can follow after a gold medal.

-----------------

The overall feel of the World Jr's is just wrong now. It's become a way for major Canadian companies to feed off our emotional attachment to this tournament. Everything is Media this or twitter that. Everything is made far too easy for these players on this team.

Did I hear they had Tuesday off? WHAT? 2 days before the biggest game of some of these kids lives and they have the day off laying around playing video games? I'm trying to make sense of this.

Phil Housley sat one of his best forwards Grimaldi on the pines for almost an entire game.

Get rid of these coddling of egos, get rid of this sense of accomplishment for making team Canada and just showing up, Instill some damn fear into these kids/men (they are mature enough to realize the importance of this tournament to millions of Canadians). Strip away all laptops, cell phones or any type of other distraction, and have them realize that they haven't won anything yet.

Instead of having Ryan Strome worrying about what he's going to say to Nabil Karim on a live interview with TSN, perhaps during the 2nd intermission he should be worrying about how the hell he's going to create some momentum going into the 3rd.

To sum up my rant:

It's not the development of Canadian players, I think it's safe to say Canada had the most talent on paper. There is WAY too much Hollywood and other distractions for Team Canada going into and during the Tournament.
I like it. Good job

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01-03-2013, 04:10 PM
  #181
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The last three teams are comprised of so-called "Millennials" and most sociologists have identified this cohort as narcissistic and demanding. As someone who is involved with hiring for a large company, I see this all the time in new hires.
The teams that made up your "drive for five" were comprised of millennials too.

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01-03-2013, 04:36 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
Yes our 3 CHL players have really made it hard for Canada to compete.
You're real smart for pointing this out. Sweden and Finland might be the exception because your senior league is just weak enough that your best juniors are already playing pro since from the age of 16-17.

Look at the US and Russian team and half the players have played or are playing in the CHL.

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01-03-2013, 04:41 PM
  #183
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with hockey development in Canada. Canada has won a medal in this tournament every year for I think the last 15. Canadians do this every year they don't win gold in hockey. Plenty of hand wringing and introspective analysis. Talk radio will talk about nothing else for a week.

Anyone that follows junior hockey in Canada knows that there is a wealth of talent, many will be NHLers. My take is that this was purely a mistake in roster selection by Hockey Canada. There sure seemed to be some nepotism going on in which leagues the players were selected.

The defence selection especially was baffling. I get offence from the defence, but they selected way too many one dimensional rushers.

Ah well, I think it's our politics at the top that is the problem, not the coach.

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01-03-2013, 04:48 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by the doctor View Post
There is absolutely nothing wrong with hockey development in Canada. Canada has won a medal in this tournament every year for I think the last 15. Canadians do this every year they don't win gold in hockey. Plenty of hand wringing and introspective analysis. Talk radio will talk about nothing else for a week.

Anyone that follows junior hockey in Canada knows that there is a wealth of talent, many will be NHLers. My take is that this was purely a mistake in roster selection by Hockey Canada. There sure seemed to be some nepotism going on in which leagues the players were selected.

The defence selection especially was baffling. I get offence from the defence, but they selected way too many one dimensional rushers.

Ah well, I think it's our politics at the top that is the problem, not the coach.
You can always argue that they got 3 or 4 players wrong, and maybe in a very close game you can say that would of made the difference. But this team, compared to the US, was lacking a gear. I personal don't buy the "no legs" excuse or the "coach didn't motivate". Bottom line, this team just wasn't as good as people thought.

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01-03-2013, 04:51 PM
  #185
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Too much skill not enough heart guys.

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01-03-2013, 04:54 PM
  #186
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Coaching was frankly just terrible. How Steve Spott managed to get the job I don't even know. He just refused to adapt and makes changes at all. How many times did we see that Hamilton-Murphy combo on the powerplay despite the fact that they've been absolutely useless all through the tournament?

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01-03-2013, 04:58 PM
  #187
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Development is fine. Quite honestly coming out of the last two tournaments with a potential 10-2 record and two bronze medals doesn't mean we need a Royal Commission as to what is happening. The talent is there.

Going forward, Hockey Canada needs to do a much better job at bring the best players available at the time, and not rely on what they saw in an evaluation camp while having a horrible season (just generalizing here) or even though a Selection Camp showing was average at best, still bring the guy anyway because he's a high draft pick and and the coaches son er.. captain in Kitchener.

If they're going to continue to pick a CHL coach to do the job, if the guy's name isn't Brent Sutter or even Dale Hunter, he's not qualified. Personally I'd rather see someone who has a good coaching pedigree and take over the U20 team on a full time basis. They way Pat Quinn did it made a lot of sense. Started with the Spengler, went to the U18s, winning gold no less, and then finally the World Juniors.

Of course we were 5 seconds away from playing for a bronze in Ottawa, but I have a hard time believing that with the a Sutter, Hunter Quinn, or even Don Hay behind the bench, Canada plays the way they did today. Still may have lost, US played great, but it would have been a different game. Spott was out of his element.


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01-03-2013, 05:03 PM
  #188
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For those of you who are claiming that the reason Canada isn't having the same WJC success you became accustomed to is because the CHL is developing the competition, you're underrating NCAA hockey. How many NCAA players who never score are suddenly lighting up the WJC? It might not be the fastest route to the NHL but those kids are playing against adults. In the case of NTDP players they've been doing it since they were 16 years old. Maybe Hockey Canada should take a look at more players outside of the CHL. Hell, Toews pretty much won you guys the 2007 WJC.

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01-03-2013, 05:10 PM
  #189
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I don't think it is a big deal. Three issues for Canada at these tournaments, coaching, goaltending and speed. The Americans were a lot faster than Canada. Coaching and goaltending used to Canada's strenghts, not so much anymore. Price was the last goaltender for Canada that was the tournaments best goalie.

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01-03-2013, 05:13 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
You can always argue that they got 3 or 4 players wrong, and maybe in a very close game you can say that would of made the difference. But this team, compared to the US, was lacking a gear. I personal don't buy the "no legs" excuse or the "coach didn't motivate". Bottom line, this team just wasn't as good as people thought.
Really? They lost 1 game. We've won a medal in like 13 or 14 straight WJHC tournaments and we have 15 gold medals. Russia is next with 13 golds then it's a major drop to less than 5 golds by any other country. There is NOTHING wrong with our development programs. They pounded Russia 4-1, they came back from 2-0 and 3-1 deficits against Slovakia and destroyed Germany. They also beat the US earlier in the tournament, yes they barely beat them, but another 2-1 victory would've had all the Canadian posters on here guaranteeing gold because this team is invincible.

The timing of a poor performance by Canada was terrible but every team puts up poor performances here and there. That's why you don't win for having the best team on paper! Remember Canada losing badly against the Americans during the round robin in the 2010 Olympics? How about winning in shootout against the Swiss? Just because they had a bad game it doesn't mean Canada's development strategy is in free fall.

Good for the Americans on a strong performance, same goes for the Swedes who I hope repeat as Gold medalists. I love the fact that Switzerland is slowly becoming relevant in international hockey. Personally, I wish more countries in Europe and the former Soviet Union were hockey powers. It won't happen in my lifetime but I think it'd be great if Japan, South Korea and China could start developing NHLers too. My point is that our game is becoming increasingly international and we should be celebrating this competition instead of crying how we must suck because we don't win gold EVERY YEAR.

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01-03-2013, 05:15 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
From dominating everyone in the last lockout and going on a 5 year streak for gold to losing and being dominated by the US 5-1 in the semi finals of a best on best WJC.. what has happened?
When Canadian players stop dominating the NHL draft I will start to worry about development.

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01-03-2013, 05:16 PM
  #192
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For those of you who are claiming that the reason Canada isn't having the same WJC success you became accustomed to is because the CHL is developing the competition, you're underrating NCAA hockey. How many NCAA players who never score are suddenly lighting up the WJC? It might not be the fastest route to the NHL but those kids are playing against adults. In the case of NTDP players they've been doing it since they were 16 years old. Maybe Hockey Canada should take a look at more players outside of the CHL. Hell, Toews pretty much won you guys the 2007 WJC.
Name me a Canadian who's playing in the NCAA that was good enough to play on this team. Di Giuseppe is the only name I can think of but he wasn't invited to the Selection Camp.

I hold the NCAA in high regard, and there are a lot of Canadians who do take the NCAA route, but it's usually late bloomers. Unfortunately, Hockey Canada isn't going to bother looking at a 19 year old freshman, drafted or not.

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01-03-2013, 05:16 PM
  #193
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I agree, the game is getting faster... But we keep getting slower..

The Americans have speed...
The Russians have skill...
The Swedes have a combination of both...
The Fins are all around good and can play any style...
The Swiss are getting better all around.
All we have is our muscle... We can only play 1 style.
BUT hold on the cavalry is coming! JUST wait till we unveil SEAN DAY and TYLER BENSON together on a WJHC TEAM CANADA --of course that won't be next year as they willbe 15 year olds with exceptional status for entry to the OHL and WHL respectively but the year after as 16 year olds we could use them a la Gretzky once did to impact bigtime at the WJHC -then by 17 and 18 we get 2 more yeears with one in a generation d-man and forward superstars ---let us plan to take our revenge on the USA for a 3 gold medal year run at least (providing of course we ALSO come up with a phenom in goal ---anyone know any currently 15 or 16 year old CDN goalies who can rovide such a solution in net --OR willwe ALSO need to rely on some cuurrent 14 year old goalie to do the job as another 16,17 and 18 year old on that team ? In other words are there any exceptional goalie candidates to enter any of the 3 CHL leagues as aNOTHER exceptional statius player next season as a 15 year old/ IF so --then the at least 3 gold un a row scenario should be a lock starting the tear after next season.BUT if we are again saddled with FAIL goatending then all bets are still off.. So any 98's who are phenom goalie prospects for canada?

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01-03-2013, 05:21 PM
  #194
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From dominating everyone in the last lockout and going on a 5 year streak for gold to losing and being dominated by the US 5-1 in the semi finals of a best on best WJC.. what has happened?
Nothing has happened to it. The Canadian development model is as strong as it's ever been. The rest of the world has improved. Canada doesn't hold the rights to winning every year. If any country dominates in the future, it will be the Americans, should the game continue to grow there at the Minor Hockey level.

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01-03-2013, 05:25 PM
  #195
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BUT hold on the cavalry is coming! JUST wait till we unveil SEAN DAY and TYLER BENSON together on a WJHC TEAM CANADA --of course that won't be next year as they willbe 15 year olds with exceptional status for entry to the OHL and WHL respectively but the year after as 16 year olds we could use them a la Gretzky once did to impact bigtime at the WJHC -then by 17 and 18 we get 2 more yeears with one in a generation d-man and forward superstars ---let us plan to take our revenge on the USA for a 3 gold medal year run at least (providing of course we ALSO come up with a phenom in goal ---anyone know any currently 15 or 16 year old CDN goalies who can rovide such a solution in net --OR willwe ALSO need to rely on some cuurrent 14 year old goalie to do the job as another 16,17 and 18 year old on that team ? In other words are there any exceptional goalie candidates to enter any of the 3 CHL leagues as aNOTHER exceptional statius player next season as a 15 year old/ IF so --then the at least 3 gold un a row scenario should be a lock starting the tear after next season.BUT if we are again saddled with FAIL goatending then all bets are still off.. So any 98's who are phenom goalie prospects for canada?
Hilarious how you mention two players that have yet to play a Major Junior game, yet don't mention McDavid. Yes, Day is freakishly good. Benson, I have never seen play in person. To pin a countries hopes on two 14 year old's is just silly. Day looks like the real deal, but let him get a few years of Major Junior under his belt before declaring him a savior of the program.

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01-03-2013, 05:30 PM
  #196
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Coaching was frankly just terrible. How Steve Spott managed to get the job I don't even know. He just refused to adapt and makes changes at all. How many times did we see that Hamilton-Murphy combo on the powerplay despite the fact that they've been absolutely useless all through the tournament?
Spott seemed pretty inflexible from the Selection Camp through the tournament. I remember Brossoit's interview and he was told he wasn't cut 'for what he did in camp'. Well then why was he invited to camp? If you have a team in mind just pick it and don't bother taking players away from their teams.

Picks Murphy when people didn't think he should be there (and drove that idea home as much as possible). Says Subban is the guy he's going with after some very shaky pre-tourny performances. Hamilton and Murphy kept getting their first unit PP time when it wasn't clicking. MacKinnon shows some great chemistry in a bigger role but keeps getting bumped to the checking line Now Subban definitely earned hisstarting spot in the round robin, but it was just the mentality that players were being given their spots rather than earning them.

Even when Canada was winning people saw the shortcomings in the coaching. Spott may be a good OHL coach and GM, but a good WJC coach? Definitely not.

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01-03-2013, 05:31 PM
  #197
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Yes our 3 CHL players have really made it hard for Canada to compete.
I think you may have mistaken the intent of my comment.I am saying that the Canadian Jr system has nothing wrong with it.There are 50 players that are from countries other than Canada in this tournament that play in the CHL.All these kids have left their lives and language behind to play in the best jr league in the world.

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01-03-2013, 05:41 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
I agree, the game is getting faster... But we keep getting slower..

The Americans have speed...
The Russians have skill...
The Swedes have a combination of both...
The Fins are all around good and can play any style...
The Swiss are getting better all around.
All we have is our muscle... We can only play 1 style.
What do you expect when size is the first qualification for selecting players from the age of 7.
"you can't teach size"is the opinion throughout minor hockey.Which is 100% true,but you can't teach a Clysdale to beat a thoroughbread either.

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01-03-2013, 05:54 PM
  #199
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Canada loses 1 game to a very good team and people are up in arms. This is the same US team Canada beat less than a week ago. This is hockey. There are competitive teams from a number of countries and in single game, any of them can win on any given night.

All this talk about how Canada can only play one way is a joke. Canada has the skill and speed to compete with any nation in any tournament. People need to realize that other countries have caught up and even the weaker nations can have a strong tournament with some lucky bounces and good goaltending.

As far as the CHL allowing imports, it's good for everyone. These guys are taking the place of a 4th line player and while it may suck if you're that fringe player, it's better for all countries and therefore better for hockey. I personally enjoy having players like Yakupov play in the CHL. The 2 imports is not hurting Canada's chances at WJC gold.

Just relax. Canada's doing just fine, and while there is always room for improvement, lets not go overboard.

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01-03-2013, 06:00 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by TheFinalWord View Post
Canada loses 1 game to a very good team and people are up in arms. This is the same US team Canada beat less than a week ago. This is hockey. There are competitive teams from a number of countries and in single game, any of them can win on any given night.

All this talk about how Canada can only play one way is a joke. Canada has the skill and speed to compete with any nation in any tournament. People need to realize that other countries have caught up and even the weaker nations can have a strong tournament with some lucky bounces and good goaltending.

As far as the CHL allowing imports, it's good for everyone. These guys are taking the place of a 4th line player and while it may suck if you're that fringe player, it's better for all countries and therefore better for hockey. I personally enjoy having players like Yakupov play in the CHL. The 2 imports is not hurting Canada's chances at WJC gold.

Just relax. Canada's doing just fine, and while there is always room for improvement, lets not go overboard.
Agree with what you said. However, while Canada did beat the U.S. in the round robin, the US were the better team that game.

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