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Nino Niederreiter to the Flyers

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01-05-2013, 12:44 AM
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Nino Niederreiter to the Flyers

Though i doubt the two teams would make such a trade with one another, what do you think it would take from the Flyers end? i know he's still very young and has been playing very well in the AHL during the lockout, but he's struggled at the NHL level, and perhaps could use a change of scenery to boost his development. i still like his upside and his size, and the Flyers really need help on the wing, and would probably like to go with a younger guy at this point.

thoughts?

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01-05-2013, 01:01 AM
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Why would the Islanders trade a top prospect within the division?

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01-05-2013, 01:01 AM
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bridgeport was his "change of scenery"....the lock out could end up being the best thing that ever happened to the kid.
i dont think garth would have any interest in trading him right now.

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01-05-2013, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Though i doubt the two teams would make such a trade with one another, what do you think it would take from the Flyers end? i know he's still very young and has been playing very well in the AHL during the lockout, but he's struggled at the NHL level, and perhaps could use a change of scenery to boost his development. i still like his upside and his size, and the Flyers really need help on the wing, and would probably like to go with a younger guy at this point.

thoughts?
17 g, 16 a in 32 games this season in the AHL, is 20 yr old Nino's change of scenery to boost his development.

Listening to Weight and Snow's interviews, it's clear the Nino remains a top youngster for the NYI, who need to add size, scoring and grit to their top 9. Snow is saying he's sticking with his homegrown youth movement and to expect more youngsters on the roster.
Zero reason for the NYI to help the Flyers find a winger.

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01-05-2013, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Though i doubt the two teams would make such a trade with one another, what do you think it would take from the Flyers end? i know he's still very young and has been playing very well in the AHL during the lockout, but he's struggled at the NHL level, and perhaps could use a change of scenery to boost his development. i still like his upside and his size, and the Flyers really need help on the wing, and would probably like to go with a younger guy at this point.

thoughts?
Hartnell, Voracek, Briere, Simmonds, Read and if need be B.Schenn.
Don't really see a need there.

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01-05-2013, 06:25 AM
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Couturier

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01-05-2013, 06:46 AM
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No disrespect at the OP, but for the Islanders to trade Niederreiter within the division, it will take something that the other teams would not give up - think along the lines of one of Coburn, Couturier, Hartnell, etc.

The Islanders don't make trades for anything but short-term stopgaps of players they have contractual control over for more than 2 seasons. They also don't seem to be keen to give up young players, as history has burnt them for this before in Spezza, Chara, Luongo, etc. The only players that fit both bills on Philly's roster are players they wouldn't trade - the Schenn brothers were re-united for a reason, Hartnell's a leader for the Flyers, and they're not trading Coburn after missing out on Shea Weber.

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01-05-2013, 07:35 AM
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From a Flyers perspective, I don't see how or why this would happen. Obviously the Flyers would like to have him, but trading Coburn is never happening. All of the forward candidates seem unlikely also for various reasons.

Briere = NTC
Hartnell = NTC
Couts = no way
Schenn = just traded for his brother
Voracek = just signed big extension
Simmonds = just signed big extension
Read = Isles would say no

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01-05-2013, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Caustic Acrostic View Post
No disrespect at the OP, but for the Islanders to trade Niederreiter within the division, it will take something that the other teams would not give up - think along the lines of one of Coburn, Couturier, Hartnell, etc.

The Islanders don't make trades for anything but short-term stopgaps of players they have contractual control over for more than 2 seasons. They also don't seem to be keen to give up young players, as history has burnt them for this before in Spezza, Chara, Luongo, etc. The only players that fit both bills on Philly's roster are players they wouldn't trade - the Schenn brothers were re-united for a reason, Hartnell's a leader for the Flyers, and they're not trading Coburn after missing out on Shea Weber.
I don't think Snow's reluctance to trade top youngsters, is some fear of the Milbury
yrs. Snow's not Milbury and doesn't make those type of wild, gambling trades.

Credible sources have said Snow shopped his 2010, 2011 and 2012 high lottery picks. Snow refuses to trade high lottery picks or top youngsters in depth trades. If he's giving up a potential young stud, he wants a potential young stud back, with similar upside according to Strang in Newsday.
So, yeah. The posters saying Snow would want B. Schenn or Couturier are correct.

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01-05-2013, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I don't think Snow's reluctance to trade top youngsters, is some fear of the Milbury
yrs. Snow's not Milbury and doesn't make those type of wild, gambling trades.

Credible sources have said Snow shopped his 2010, 2011 and 2012 high lottery picks. Snow refuses to trade high lottery picks or top youngsters in depth trades. If he's giving up a potential young stud, he wants a potential young stud back, with similar upside according to Strang in Newsday.
So, yeah. The posters saying Snow would want B. Schenn or Couturier are correct.
Spot on - I don't think it's fueled by fear; just drawing a comparison in the way Snow trades, illustrating that it would take players the Flyers couldn't or wouldn't give up.

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01-05-2013, 08:40 AM
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Hmm. Maybe I was under the impression that the isles weren't sure about him anymore. My mistake. Nino is definitely not worth any of Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Hartnell, Simmonds or Coburn. I understand he was drafted high and is playing well In the ahl, but he has, what? 3 points in like 64 games in the nhl? That's somewhat alarming for a 5th overall pick from the outside looking in, so I suppose you could understand why someone would be under that impression.

Also, I think some of you are misunderstanding this concept of a "change of scenery", or at least the concept in this example. Bridgeport is the same system. Surrounded by many of the same personel, and same prospects, answering to the same higher ups about your development and expectations. That's not exactly the change of scenery I was theorizing. However, I understand why the isles wouldn't want to trade him. At this point they wouldn't get what he's worth to them in a trade... Certainly not a player like Couturier or Schenn, who have proved a significant amount more than Nino at the pro level...


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01-05-2013, 09:06 AM
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my "bridgeport was his change of scenery" was a tongue in cheek kind of joke.....
i cant disagree with his piss poor production on long island, ( facts ARE facts ) but garth was trapped after drafting him. he couldnt send him back to portland ( they had already hit the import players limit ) and he was to young to play in the AHL. garth was pretty much handcuffed.
there is no way in hell that he would get sean coutuier back in a trade. ( im hoping that was a joke ) hes not worth nearly that much.
if that deal was offered from philadelphia and garth turned it down....id steal a car and drive from baltimore to long island and set garths dog on fire!!!

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01-05-2013, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Hmm. Maybe I was under the impression that the isles weren't sure about him anymore. My mistake. Nino is definitely not worth any of Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Hartnell, Simmonds or Coburn. I understand he was drafted high and is playing well In the ahl, but he has, what? 3 points in like 64 games in the nhl? That's somewhat alarming for a 5th overall pick from the outside looking in, so I suppose you could understand why someone would be under that impression.

Also, I think some of you are misunderstanding this concept of a "change of scenery", or at least the concept in this example. Bridgeport is the same system. Surrounded by many of the same personel, and same prospects, answering to the same higher ups about your development and expectations. That's not exactly the change of scenery I was theorizing. However, I understand why the isles wouldn't want to trade him. At this point they wouldn't get what he's worth to them in a trade... Certainly not a player like Couturier or Schenn, who have proved a significant amount more than Nino at the pro level...


You are wrong on several pts.

1.The Sound Tigers have quite few key 1st and 2nd yr players for the rookie Nino to play with: Nelson, Cizikas, Perrson, Sundstom, Kabanov, Donovan.
Unlike last season with the isles, Nino is getting a ton of top 6 icetime, with other highly skilled players. He's one of the go to guys this season.

2.The Sound Tigers beat writer, Mike Forenobaio, has a new podcast up on pointblank. He says Nino's attitude has been great from the start of training camp.That Nino's worked hard, determined to put last season behind him.

3.Several days ago, assistant coach Doug Weight gave an interview with Chris King. It's posted on the NYI website. He makes it clear the franchise remains high on Nino and they're very pleased with his 2012-2013 season: 17 g, 16 a.

Isles aren't soured on Nino. At 20 he fits into their youth movement. they aren't shopping him.

Price too high? Good thing that the isles aren't looking to move Nino then

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01-05-2013, 09:11 AM
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What he's worth to both teams doesn't match up. Flyers would want him as a reclamation project. That's not how the Islanders see him

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01-05-2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Hmm. Maybe I was under the impression that the isles weren't sure about him anymore. My mistake. Nino is definitely not worth any of Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Hartnell, Simmonds or Coburn. I understand he was drafted high and is playing well In the ahl, but he has, what? 3 points in like 64 games in the nhl? That's somewhat alarming for a 5th overall pick from the outside looking in, so I suppose you could understand why someone would be under that impression.

Also, I think some of you are misunderstanding this concept of a "change of scenery", or at least the concept in this example. Bridgeport is the same system. Surrounded by many of the same personel, and same prospects, answering to the same higher ups about your development and expectations. That's not exactly the change of scenery I was theorizing. However, I understand why the isles wouldn't want to trade him. At this point they wouldn't get what he's worth to them in a trade... Certainly not a player like Couturier or Schenn, who have proved a significant amount more than Nino at the pro level...
While parts are true - we haven't necessary written off his first season as he was more a casualty of the cap, his lack of eligibility for the AHL and the assumption that he had pretty much done what he could in the WHL. For whatever reason, he never got ice time with better players and was stuck on the 3rd and 4th lines with drek like Rolston and Reasoner, as the expectation was that Moulson - Tavares - Parenteau and Grabner - Nielsen - Okposo had a level of chemistry too good to break up (which was at least partially true.)

He's offensively back on track after last year's stumble, though - even if it is just the AHL level. His game is a sort that should translate to the NHL well enough - there's grind, power, meanness and goal scoring all there; it just needs to be developed properly, which wasn't happening on the top squad last year.

He alone isn't worth the players you mention, and considering the fact that both teams could use some defense and both have a platoons of young forwards (with Philly obviously being a few steps ahead in development), there's no player Philly would be amenable to giving up, whether by position, contract or situation, that would be worth Niederreiter when last year is looking more and more like a rookie fluke.

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01-05-2013, 09:21 AM
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Flyers would want him as a reclamation project.
"a reclamation project"? after one year in the big leagues hes now a "reclamation project"? thats just too ****ing funny.....

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01-05-2013, 09:30 AM
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"a reclamation project"? after one year in the big leagues hes now a "reclamation project"? thats just too ****ing funny.....
Maybe you should re-read the post and adjust your position accordingly

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01-05-2013, 09:37 AM
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Hmm. Maybe I was under the impression that the isles weren't sure about him anymore. My mistake. Nino is definitely not worth any of Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Hartnell, Simmonds or Coburn. I understand he was drafted high and is playing well In the ahl, but he has, what? 3 points in like 64 games in the nhl? That's somewhat alarming for a 5th overall pick from the outside looking in, so I suppose you could understand why someone would be under that impression.

Also, I think some of you are misunderstanding this concept of a "change of scenery", or at least the concept in this example. Bridgeport is the same system. Surrounded by many of the same personel, and same prospects, answering to the same higher ups about your development and expectations. That's not exactly the change of scenery I was theorizing. However, I understand why the isles wouldn't want to trade him. At this point they wouldn't get what he's worth to them in a trade... Certainly not a player like Couturier or Schenn, who have proved a significant amount more than Nino at the pro level...
Is being a year older, a number 5 pick, and having 12 g and 8 assists in 63 games really better?

I'd say that Schenn certainly IS fair value. But neither team makes that trade.

Why don't you say what you think is a fair offer for him if you don't think a similarly aged, similarly unproven, similarly drafted prospect is fair?

(I'm thinking "something" + a 2nd)

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01-05-2013, 09:48 AM
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Mistake!

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01-05-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Hmm. Maybe I was under the impression that the isles weren't sure about him anymore. My mistake. Nino is definitely not worth any of Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Hartnell, Simmonds or Coburn. I understand he was drafted high and is playing well In the ahl, but he has, what? 3 points in like 64 games in the nhl? That's somewhat alarming for a 5th overall pick from the outside looking in, so I suppose you could understand why someone would be under that impression.

Also, I think some of you are misunderstanding this concept of a "change of scenery", or at least the concept in this example. Bridgeport is the same system. Surrounded by many of the same personel, and same prospects, answering to the same higher ups about your development and expectations. That's not exactly the change of scenery I was theorizing. However, I understand why the isles wouldn't want to trade him. At this point they wouldn't get what he's worth to them in a trade... Certainly not a player like Couturier or Schenn, who have proved a significant amount more than Nino at the pro level...
No, that's half of HFBoards who thinks that.

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01-05-2013, 10:40 AM
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Is being a year older, a number 5 pick, and having 12 g and 8 assists in 63 games really better?

I'd say that Schenn certainly IS fair value. But neither team makes that trade.

Why don't you say what you think is a fair offer for him if you don't think a similarly aged, similarly unproven, similarly drafted prospect is fair?

(I'm thinking "something" + a 2nd
)
Snow is rumored to have offered all of his 2012 picks, for the 2nd overall at the draft. There's some debate as to whether that's true or not. A Columbus beatwriter says it's true, while the NY Post says it's a false story.

What isn't up for debate, is that going into a lockout, Snow dealt his 2013 2nd rounder to rent 36 yr old Vis.

Snow's got a glut of unproven solid prospects. He's not looking for picks/prospects or to gift the Flyers with a big, skilled, physical forward. Especially since the Flyers + NYR+ Pens have physically dominated the Isles for the last several yrs.

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01-05-2013, 10:42 AM
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No, that's half of HFBoards who thinks that.
It was Nino's team leading stats as a rookie in Bridgeport, that threw the OP.

What team wouldn't be sour on a 20 yr old, who's among the top 6 scorers in the AHL

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01-05-2013, 11:31 AM
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You are wrong on several pts.

1.The Sound Tigers have quite few key 1st and 2nd yr players for the rookie Nino to play with: Nelson, Cizikas, Perrson, Sundstom, Kabanov, Donovan.
Unlike last season with the isles, Nino is getting a ton of top 6 icetime, with other highly skilled players. He's one of the go to guys this season.

2.The Sound Tigers beat writer, Mike Forenobaio, has a new podcast up on pointblank. He says Nino's attitude has been great from the start of training camp.That Nino's worked hard, determined to put last season behind him.

3.Several days ago, assistant coach Doug Weight gave an interview with Chris King. It's posted on the NYI website. He makes it clear the franchise remains high on Nino and they're very pleased with his 2012-2013 season: 17 g, 16 a.

Isles aren't soured on Nino. At 20 he fits into their youth movement. they aren't shopping him.

Price too high? Good thing that the isles aren't looking to move Nino then
great post! thanks for responding helpfully haha.

i really like nino too. i was hoping maybe the isles had soured on him, so we could maybe have him become a great player here.

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01-05-2013, 11:34 AM
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Is being a year older, a number 5 pick, and having 12 g and 8 assists in 63 games really better?

I'd say that Schenn certainly IS fair value. But neither team makes that trade.

Why don't you say what you think is a fair offer for him if you don't think a similarly aged, similarly unproven, similarly drafted prospect is fair?

(I'm thinking "something" + a 2nd)
it's better, not MUCH better, but having 9 points in 11 playoff games, while being a defensive standout and hitting everything that moves IS much better. Do not compare Nino to Schenn, you will lose. Schenn for Nino is not fair value. Maybe that's what it would take to get him, I'm not arguing that, but Schenn is clearly the better player at this point.

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01-05-2013, 12:03 PM
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Snow is rumored to have offered all of his 2012 picks, for the 2nd overall at the draft. There's some debate as to whether that's true or not. A Columbus beatwriter says it's true, while the NY Post says it's a false story.

What isn't up for debate, is that going into a lockout, Snow dealt his 2013 2nd rounder to rent 36 yr old Vis.

Snow's got a glut of unproven solid prospects. He's not looking for picks/prospects or to gift the Flyers with a big, skilled, physical forward. Especially since the Flyers + NYR+ Pens have physically dominated the Isles for the last several yrs.
I think you misunderstood. I was saying the guy who though Schenn was way too much to give up for Nino would probably only be offering junk + a 2nd, not that that is what Nino is worth.

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