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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Players and Owners reach an agreement (MOD: circa 5am ET 1/6/13)

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Old
01-06-2013, 12:35 PM
  #226
Dado
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How much revenue is a WC worth?

 
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01-06-2013, 12:36 PM
  #227
Riptide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Here's why I don't agree with your reading of things: it only makes sense to name a nominal cap in the first full year of the deal, when you don't have new HRR numbers to build your projection off of. But every year thereafter, there shouldn't be a nominal value for the cap stipulated unless it is one that would conflict with and take precedence over the one arrived at through normal HRR projections. So we'll have to wait and see which of us is right, but I don't read these reports as saying the same thing you do.
You have to set the cap in year 2 as well, due to year 1 numbers being skewed due to the shortened season. Year 3 can be whatever the real numbers are due to having a full season in year 2.

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01-06-2013, 12:38 PM
  #228
haseoke39
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
You have to set the cap in year 2 as well, due to year 1 numbers being skewed due to the shortened season. Year 3 can be whatever the real numbers are due to having a full season in year 2.
Agreed, I was trying to imply that when saying "first FULL season," but we're on the same page.

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01-06-2013, 12:42 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
Could you provide a link because all I got was lowest year is to be 50% of highest no matter which year is lowest or highest.
All reports are saying that the last year can't be lower than 50% of the highest year, but the 35% variance from year to year helps too.

Example:

$10.41 million cap hit

Salaries:

$14.0
$14.0
$14.0
$14.0
$9.10
$5.915
$5.25
$7.0

Since the second to last salary year must be within 35% of 50% of the highest salary, you can't dive as low before coming back up.

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01-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
All reports are saying that the last year can't be lower than 50% of the highest year, but the 35% variance from year to year helps too.

Example:

$10.41 million cap hit

Salaries:

$14.0
$14.0
$14.0
$14.0
$9.10
$5.915
$5.25
$7.0

Since the second to last salary year must be within 35% of 50% of the highest salary, you can't dive as low before coming back up.
Noted. I would have preferred 50 highest to lowest, but yes, it will help.

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01-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #231
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So are the contracts that Minnesota gave out last summer grandfathered in

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01-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliamad View Post
2 things I don't like with deal

Only 200 million in revenue sharing. I believe last CBS was around 110. This seems like a joke.
7-8 year contracts. Would have liked 5-6 or 6-7.
Revenue sharing is a poor word choice (from everyone). It's wealth transfer. When I looked at the numbers, even splitting 50% of the gate 30 ways only re-distributes ~96m. According to 1 poster here, the NBA only redistributes 3.6% (~96m), although I couldn't find any numbers on this.

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01-06-2013, 12:46 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Yes, I believe all 1-way NHL contracts count against the cap and players' share regardless of where the players play.
One of the offers said they'd count against the cap, but not the players share.

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01-06-2013, 12:50 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
So are the contracts that Minnesota gave out last summer grandfathered in
Yes, all current contracts stay the same, just suffer higher escrow payments until revenues grow. This is why the owners wanted players signed just before the CBA expired.

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Old
01-06-2013, 12:51 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
That's why you just go to bed, and when you wake up it's like Christmas morning


By the way, as I (and some others) have said in the past, this is why you don't accept proposals. None of what happened over the last 2 days was either side accepting a proposal. That's for all you "if the players would just vote!" people
Can't wait to see the final agreement. But really, how different will it be from what was offered last month? Or hell, even a few weeks ago? And yet the players all missed a couple cheques to get this new deal - one that looks very very similar to the others.

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01-06-2013, 12:51 PM
  #236
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I'm glad this is over and I'm glad we are playing hockey again, but as far as the CBA goes...

The CBA still doesn't solve the bigger problem IMO. I don't think there is ever going to be a CBA that is going to help certain franchises become financially viable, ever.

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01-06-2013, 12:52 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
How much revenue is a WC worth?
I'd guess at least 25-30m assuming it's in a major market (Toronto, Montreal, New York).

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01-06-2013, 12:53 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
Could you provide a link because all I got was lowest year is to be 50% of highest no matter which year is lowest or highest.
I posted the link in this thread, maybe page 2 or 3.

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01-06-2013, 12:54 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
I'd guess at least 25-30m assuming it's in a major market (Toronto, Montreal, New York).
That's it...?

Wow. Not very much at all.

 
Old
01-06-2013, 12:54 PM
  #240
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Is NOBODY reporting on pensions and make whole money??

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01-06-2013, 12:56 PM
  #241
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So 10 year CBA with opt out in 8 for both sides, 7 year max contracts with an option for 8 to resign, 60 million cap this year but teams can spend 70?, and a cap of 64.3 next year?

So the owners got their 50/50 and it would appear they had to give a little on these other issues to get it. So did anyone come out on top here seems like both sides got a decent deal.

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01-06-2013, 12:56 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
That's it...?

Wow. Not very much at all.
From what I remember reading, that's about all they got in 04. Adjust it for inflation... so what... 35-40m? But no clue exactly what that includes (tickets, merchandize, tv, concessions, etc). Or who that money goes to.

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01-06-2013, 12:58 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I'm glad this is over and I'm glad we are playing hockey again, but as far as the CBA goes...

The CBA still doesn't solve the bigger problem IMO. I don't think there is ever going to be a CBA that is going to help certain franchises become financially viable, ever.
The way I see it, the CBA is a sum of its league's parts and can only go so far to ensure viability. And yes you're absolutely right, it's damn near impossible to make 30 franchises viable and healthy with the CBA we have now because the NHL lacks economic resources that leagues such as the NFL have. If you don't have that, then you can't really pool in the money and distribute it equally.

What the NHL is missing is the exposure and the big-time money that the NFL, MLB and maybe even the NBA have that got them such lucrative TV contracts in the first place (well 2 billion with NBC in of itself is lucrative, but quite poor compared to the NFL's).

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01-06-2013, 01:00 PM
  #244
Riptide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Is NOBODY reporting on pensions and make whole money??
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSN
Then on Dec. 14, the NHLPA began voting on giving the executive board the authority to file a disclaimer of interest, which would have given the union - until Jan. 2 - the power to dissolve and file anti-trust lawsuits against the league. Two weeks later, the league came back with a 288-page proposal that softened demands on contract and salary rules and reintroduced $300 million in 'make whole' payments.
Looks like it's still there. Although I somehow suspect it's more than 300m at this point.

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01-06-2013, 01:00 PM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
One of the offers said they'd count against the cap, but not the players share.
That's true.

If cap hits count against salary cap even if when playing in AHL with 1-way contract, there's no point in sending player to AHL.

So either way, there won't be Case Redden's. Unless a team wants the player to refuse reporting to AHL and thus nullifying his contract.

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01-06-2013, 01:09 PM
  #246
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How will the Make Whole work? Is the $300M being given for rolled back salaries? Is there a roll-back like in 2004-05?

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01-06-2013, 01:11 PM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
So 10 year CBA with opt out in 8 for both sides, 7 year max contracts with an option for 8 to resign, 60 million cap this year but teams can spend 70?, and a cap of 64.3 next year?

So the owners got their 50/50 and it would appear they had to give a little on these other issues to get it. So did anyone come out on top here seems like both sides got a decent deal.
I agree, considering the circumstances nobody should be "pissed off" too much, it's hard to make everybody happy but I think the deal seems reasonable.

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01-06-2013, 01:14 PM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenBanks56 View Post
so how close is this offer they accepted compaired to the one back in october??
huge difference??
Hard to say....the PA didn't even negotiate off it so it's hard to tell how things would have went.

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01-06-2013, 01:19 PM
  #249
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I'm glad NHL hockey is back, I'll admit it. That said, I'm so annoyed with the whole process every time there is a CBA that it will be a very long time before the NHL sees a dime out of me

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01-06-2013, 01:20 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I think you might be wrong. By my recollection, there was no make whole money offered by the league in October - although Gary very pointedly said he would negotiate the make whole and the union never took him up on it. In early November, about $100M in make whole money was put on the table. By the time the players and owners only meeting rolled around in mid-December, it was $300M, and I think it stuck there.

So yes, wasted time in that they lost more than they gained, but I think the $300M was all officially gotten after October.
As far as I can recollect, the first $211M 'Make whole' offer was made November 9. Coincidentally, at that time the players had 'lost' about $210M in salaries since the mid October offer.

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