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Penguins 2013 (and beyond) lineup discussion | Contract chart in Post #1

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01-07-2013, 01:58 PM
  #326
TheSniper26
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah, I addressed this on the trade board regarding the Pens' defensive prospects. And they likely have the deepest and most talented pool of backend prospects in the league. At some point something will have to give, there are not enough roster spots for the talent there, even given that some will flame out as some prospects inevitably do. But there is a problem with Shero's theory ' PMD's are soooooo valuable, you can always trade them for other needs.' And it shows in this thread. Prospects are not worth a lot, even great prospects. The real value is young players who have gone through the growing pains and proven something. A Gogo then can get you a Neal and Niskanen perhaps. But that was a Goligoski who had gone through several very painful years of suckage learning his craft and who finally was coming into his own. He was a turnover machine when he first came up.

I know we value prospects over all here. Hence the site name. But in the real world they only will have much trade value once they move from prospects to young talented players.

And for a team like the Pens, whose stars are just entering their prime (can you believe Crosby is only 25? Malkin 26?), they can not afford to train young defensemen in their craft for two or three years to make them valuable. That is where Shero's plan seems to fall apart.
Well a prospect on his own isn't going to net you much, that's true. But as part of a package deal, good dmen prospects are very valuable pieces. I've said it before in this thread, but I'm very much a "build for the now" kind of guy when it comes to the Pens. They need to capitalize on having the two best centers in the world while they still have them. Part of that is bringing in another top 6 winger. Having some good prospects to sweeten any potential deal for that winger really helps.

But overall I agree with you that prospects are drastically overvalued on here.

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01-07-2013, 02:53 PM
  #327
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Don't know how much stock you want to put into this - Madden said on his show that he heard rumors only 3 players from WBS will be attending Penguins training camp: Bennett, Tangradi, and Bortuzzo. No Dylan Reese, and even no Simon Despres.

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Old
01-07-2013, 03:36 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah, I addressed this on the trade board regarding the Pens' defensive prospects. And they likely have the deepest and most talented pool of backend prospects in the league. At some point something will have to give, there are not enough roster spots for the talent there, even given that some will flame out as some prospects inevitably do. But there is a problem with Shero's theory ' PMD's are soooooo valuable, you can always trade them for other needs.' And it shows in this thread. Prospects are not worth a lot, even great prospects. The real value is young players who have gone through the growing pains and proven something. A Gogo then can get you a Neal and Niskanen perhaps. But that was a Goligoski who had gone through several very painful years of suckage learning his craft and who finally was coming into his own. He was a turnover machine when he first came up.

I know we value prospects over all here. Hence the site name. But in the real world they only will have much trade value once they move from prospects to young talented players.

And for a team like the Pens, whose stars are just entering their prime (can you believe Crosby is only 25? Malkin 26?), they can not afford to train young defensemen in their craft for two or three years to make them valuable. That is where Shero's plan seems to fall apart.
Exactly.

First you hear, "I like Shero drafting defensemen all the time because that's what they are good at developing, and we have the deepest defensive prospect pool in the NHL. They can ALWAYS trade them for wingers later."

Then you hear, "We shouldn't be relying on rookie defensemen playing significant minutes since we are in a 'win now' mode."

I give up.

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01-07-2013, 03:42 PM
  #329
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Really wish Jonathan Bombulie covered the NHL Pens. He does a great job for the Baby Pens. Here's a good interview he did talking about the Pens prospects seasons so far in WBS.

http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/stat...medium=twitter

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01-07-2013, 03:58 PM
  #330
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http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.ht...ome#Coachspeak

Quote:
- Bylsma said that Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis will be reunited. He added that he’s keeping Malkin and Neal together, and that he can see several players fitting in on that line.

- Bylsma and his coaching staff have contingency plans for any and all scenarios regarding training camp. “I’ve been ready for 5-day, 6-day, 7-day camp. I’m ready for all scenarios. We’ve done a lot of planning. We’re ready to go.” He added that despite the short camp, the team should be able to adjust quickly since they are already so familiar with each other and the system.

- The Penguins have made some adjustments to their system. They implemented those adjustments in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton and will have the benefit of having seen them flushed out on the AHL level. “We’ll use video of their games in our camp.”

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01-07-2013, 03:58 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Really wish Jonathan Bombulie covered the NHL Pens. He does a great job for the Baby Pens. Here's a good interview he did talking about the Pens prospects seasons so far in WBS.

http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/stat...medium=twitter
Thanks CH.

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01-07-2013, 04:01 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Really wish Jonathan Bombulie covered the NHL Pens. He does a great job for the Baby Pens. Here's a good interview he did talking about the Pens prospects seasons so far in WBS.

http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/stat...medium=twitter
Awesome interview. Thanks

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01-07-2013, 04:01 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Really wish Jonathan Bombulie covered the NHL Pens. He does a great job for the Baby Pens. Here's a good interview he did talking about the Pens prospects seasons so far in WBS.

http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/stat...medium=twitter
thanks. i enjoyed this interview.

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01-07-2013, 04:02 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Don't know how much stock you want to put into this - Madden said on his show that he heard rumors only 3 players from WBS will be attending Penguins training camp: Bennett, Tangradi, and Bortuzzo. No Dylan Reese, and even no Simon Despres.
Those 3 will definetly be going to camp but there should be 2 or 3 more.

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01-07-2013, 04:06 PM
  #335
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Well. I doubt all 3 of Lovejoy, Strait, Bortuzzo makes the team. And i would rather trade one/more of them and get something than lose them to waivers. And i know prospects dont hold great value. But a defensive prospect for a forward prospect swap or prospect for pick should be doable.

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01-07-2013, 04:22 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Don't know how much stock you want to put into this - Madden said on his show that he heard rumors only 3 players from WBS will be attending Penguins training camp: Bennett, Tangradi, and Bortuzzo. No Dylan Reese, and even no Simon Despres.
Zero stock. The guy regurgitates stuff we already know / tries to spin it like he's got something extra.

I don't know about Reese but Despres will not only be in camp but likely make the team IMO. It was mentioned by someone yesterday he was probably not scratched like the others because he's been out for a few games (if I understand right) and they wanted him to get some more WBS time before camp.

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01-07-2013, 04:37 PM
  #337
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I want Bombulie because I think he's a reporter that could put yinzers in their place. Any sort of irrationality, he could step in, write a column, and knock everyone into place. Really smart hockey reporter. I also love how candid he is about our players, and what we could reasonably expect out of them. He's an asset to the organization, even if he's not in the organization.

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01-07-2013, 04:52 PM
  #338
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Can he do play by play or color announcing?

Mears + Bombo... problem solved.

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01-07-2013, 04:58 PM
  #339
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Here's a link to Bylsma's press conference too. Fair warning, it's pretty long.

http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videoc...ed-share-video

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01-07-2013, 05:00 PM
  #340
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Is it worth even listening to?

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01-07-2013, 05:04 PM
  #341
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Is it worth even listening to?
lol no idea. I just started watching it. I figured he'd say something interesting since he had those other quotes I posted.

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01-07-2013, 05:08 PM
  #342
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Shero goes all in this season.

The core will have never been hungrier.

You could say a lot about other NHL teams but not really.

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01-07-2013, 05:12 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Exactly.

First you hear, "I like Shero drafting defensemen all the time because that's what they are good at developing, and we have the deepest defensive prospect pool in the NHL. They can ALWAYS trade them for wingers later."

Then you hear, "We shouldn't be relying on rookie defensemen playing significant minutes since we are in a 'win now' mode."

I give up.
I don't really see why those two things contradict one another. Drafting defensemen and having solid prospects are good things. Those prospects can, in turn, be used in trade packages to help acquire "win now" talent. You can still have a good prospect pool while maintaining a roster that's not relying on unproven talent to play "significant minutes" every night.

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01-07-2013, 05:46 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Don't know how much stock you want to put into this - Madden said on his show that he heard rumors only 3 players from WBS will be attending Penguins training camp: Bennett, Tangradi, and Bortuzzo. No Dylan Reese, and even no Simon Despres.
Would Simon Despres be burning a year of ELC by playing this year?

Would love Bennett to make the team and be on Sid's line. Guy has a potentially amazing future.

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01-07-2013, 05:46 PM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
I don't really see why those two things contradict one another. Drafting defensemen and having solid prospects are good things. Those prospects can, in turn, be used in trade packages to help acquire "win now" talent. You can still have a good prospect pool while maintaining a roster that's not relying on unproven talent to play "significant minutes" every night.
Bingo!

Does anybody really think all of these defensive prospects the Penguins have are all going to play together 5 or 6 years from now? If they trade one or two of them for some "win now" talent, it's not going to be a big deal as far as the future is concerned- especially since Shero keeps stacking up on these prospects.

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01-07-2013, 05:47 PM
  #346
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Simon Despres is on his ELC already.

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01-07-2013, 05:49 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Would Simon Despres be burning a year of ELC by playing this year?

Would love Bennett to make the team and be on Sid's line. Guy has a potentially amazing future.
I'm not sure about Despres. Madden mentioned that he was hurt and in general having a bad season at WBS. Maybe the Penguins are trying to send him a message by not inviting him to camp.

As for Bennett, the Penguins really have nothing to lose by letting him start on the NHL roster. If the NHL looks like it is too much for him after a few games, just send him back down.

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01-07-2013, 05:50 PM
  #348
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if you've turned pro then you burn a year of your contract if you're in the AHL or NHL(or ECHL for that matter).

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01-07-2013, 06:22 PM
  #349
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Nashville needs to add salary and I believe Colin Wilson has been in their doghouse forever. I get the feeling that he may be a Pens soon enough in exchange for a package involving one of our waiver-eligible Ds. He'd be ideal. too bad he's not right-handed but he'd look real nice in a Pens uniform. We cna also use the size up front on our top 6.

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01-07-2013, 06:27 PM
  #350
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I like Wilson but our waiver eligible D make peanuts so that may be problematic if Nashville needs to add salary unless they want someone like TK in a bigger package type of deal along with a waiver eligible D that they like.

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