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Penguins 2013 (and beyond) lineup discussion | Contract chart in Post #1

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01-06-2013, 11:40 AM
  #101
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Antaris View Post
Meh i don't know kirk. You seem awfully confident about that. Yes they obviously have game, but it's not a guarantee it'll work in the NHL and plus i think TK + Gradi + Harrington-esque is overpaying for someone like Kulemin. In order for that to work it feels like you're expecting some of the kids in the AHL to be ready to step up, which i'm really not sure they are.

With this said - Would i like to have Kulemin here? Of course.
But the fact is that I don't see it happening. Granted, Toronto seem to be high on Tangradi, i'm not sure they'd swap Kulemin out.
The way I look at the Pens top 6, they need two wingers. Dupuis would be best on a line with Sutter and Cooke. TK belongs nowhere near Sid or Geno. Cooke may start in the top six, but he's in the same boat as Dupuis. Jeffrey, Tangradi . . . meh.

I'd overpay to get Kulemin because I think he's a better complement for Malkin and Neal than Kunitz was. It's not because he plays with Malkin in Russia. It's because I've watched him in Toronto.

Thing is, the deal I proposed means adding like a half million in cap space. Still leaves plenty of room-- and plenty of organizational assets-- to make a run at a guy like Iginla AND a defenseman for the playoffs.

Kunitz-Sid-Iginla
Kumy-Geno-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis

I'll take my chances on those three lines, especially if I can add a defenseman too.

Plus, those two lines are the ultimate pick your poison. There isn't a team with the depth to shut down over a 7 games series two lines that arguably would be the best in hockey.

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01-06-2013, 11:41 AM
  #102
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Cooke should be brought back as long as he keeps his game, we have noone in the system that plays like him. The mighty Joe is the closest but he needs time to get there.

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01-06-2013, 11:43 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Indeed. With the money we are already spending, its reasonable to give both Sid and Geno a star wing and then plug in a 2nd.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Cooke-Malkin-Neal

Is what I'm betting on for "opening night".

Something like:

Dupuis-Crosby-Seto/Stewart/Heatley/Hossa/etc
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-TK
Glass-Vitale-Adams

is not that unreasonable and will serve us better in the long run if we can lock that 1st line winger in for a longer contract. Then let Kunitz/Dupuis/Bennett/Tangradi/etc fill in the other wing. Game of duos. It still allows us to be flexible on the 3rd line. We just need to get a little more realistic about what prospects we have and where they can fit.

Be interesting to see what Shero's thoughts are on the upcoming RFA's and UFA's. Dupuis comes back, Cooke is a ?, TK is as good as gone IMO.
I think the more interesting thing with Shero will be to see his thoughts on deal making as a result of being forced to deal Staal. The 2007-2009 Shero was a player who would deal a significant organization asset, perhaps one that even might not be replaceable. The post cup Shero was nothing of the sort (as I've said, even the Gogo for Neal and Niskanen deal was getting Neal and swapping #5's in Shero's eyes). So, do we get risk taking or risk averse Shero? If I'm Sid or Geno, then I'm hoping for the former.

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01-06-2013, 11:45 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Putting Tangradi into a shutdown role under DB isn't putting him into a position to succeed IMO. Easiest way for him to earn a role on this team is to give him a shot in the top six with legit talent while we have holes there.
I think the third line is still allowed to score though. I still say give him a shot in the top 6. But I don't think its top 6 or bust.

Also, I really do think Cooke is a better option for the top 6 than TK. TK can provide the spark on the third line, but his play just does not mesh with Sid or Geno. Cooke just fits what the top 6 needs right now more than TK does.

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01-06-2013, 11:52 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
The way I look at the Pens top 6, they need two wingers. Dupuis would be best on a line with Sutter and Cooke. TK belongs nowhere near Sid or Geno. Cooke may start in the top six, but he's in the same boat as Dupuis. Jeffrey, Tangradi . . . meh.

I'd overpay to get Kulemin because I think he's a better complement for Malkin and Neal than Kunitz was. It's not because he plays with Malkin in Russia. It's because I've watched him in Toronto.

Thing is, the deal I proposed means adding like a half million in cap space. Still leaves plenty of room-- and plenty of organizational assets-- to make a run at a guy like Iginla AND a defenseman for the playoffs.

Kunitz-Sid-Iginla
Kumy-Geno-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis

I'll take my chances on those three lines, especially if I can add a defenseman too.

Plus, those two lines are the ultimate pick your poison. There isn't a team with the depth to shut down over a 7 games series two lines that arguably would be the best in hockey.

I agree with you about Duper, Cooke and TK and im all for letting the young guns getting a fair shot.

I'll take your word on Kulemins game in Toronto, I don't get to follow alot of full games due to the time difference so those I do see are pens games. What I know about him is what i've seen in the KHL, highlights and read about him.
Heck, maybe it's worth it. I think there are other assets that might be easier to get then Kulemin. Have Shero make a call to Burke wouldn't hurt but you can call me a pessimist in that camp.

However, making a run for Kulemin AND Ignilia-esque + D-man? That would completley cripple the group of prospects we have, which would really not be worth it unless we manage to get someone somewhat young (Ignila is not) that would be willing to stick around.


Btw. Nice to see you back KIRK!

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01-06-2013, 11:53 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I think the more interesting thing with Shero will be to see his thoughts on deal making as a result of being forced to deal Staal. The 2007-2009 Shero was a player who would deal a significant organization asset, perhaps one that even might not be replaceable. The post cup Shero was nothing of the sort (as I've said, even the Gogo for Neal and Niskanen deal was getting Neal and swapping #5's in Shero's eyes). So, do we get risk taking or risk averse Shero? If I'm Sid or Geno, then I'm hoping for the former.
Good point. Wonder what, if any, effect this off season had on him. Making several major organizational moves to go after the two top prizes only to get neither...and to not even come close.

We all know the Hossa deal soured him and turned him into a more defensive GM...hopefully Parise/Suter doesn't sour him more. I'm hoping the need for one more legitimate winger is a major agenda item for Shero and Org. Doesn't even need to be a major all star. As mentioned, bringing in Kulemin would suffice. As would some like Setoguchi or an equiv. In any case, I still feel we are always one wing away from a cup.

Oh...what did Fleury do this "off season"?

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01-06-2013, 11:54 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Antaris View Post
I agree with you about Duper, Cooke and TK and im all for letting the young guns getting a fair shot.

I'll take your word on Kulemins game in Toronto, I don't get to follow alot of full games due to the time difference so those I do see are pens games. What I know about him is what i've seen in the KHL, highlights and read about him.
Heck, maybe it's worth it. I think there are other assets that might be easier to get then Kulemin. Have Shero make a call to Burke wouldn't hurt but you can call me a pessimist in that camp.

However, making a run for Kulemin AND Ignilia-esque + D-man? That would completley cripple the group of prospects we have, which would really not be worth it unless we manage to get someone somewhat young (Ignila is not) that would be willing to stick around.
I think 'cripple' is a strong word. The Pens would be in much better shape in terms of prospects, even after all of that, than they were after the 2008 NHL draft (i.e., after the Hossa and Gill deals).

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01-06-2013, 11:54 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I think the third line is still allowed to score though. I still say give him a shot in the top 6. But I don't think its top 6 or bust.

Also, I really do think Cooke is a better option for the top 6 than TK. TK can provide the spark on the third line, but his play just does not mesh with Sid or Geno. Cooke just fits what the top 6 needs right now more than TK does.
I'm all in on the idea of building around Sid/Geno this season with big bodies and scoring talent. And having Cooke/Sutter/Dupuis be our third line going into the postseason.

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01-06-2013, 12:01 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Good point. Wonder what, if any, effect this off season had on him. Making several major organizational moves to go after the two top prizes only to get neither...and to not even come close.

We all know the Hossa deal soured him and turned him into a more defensive GM...hopefully Parise/Suter doesn't sour him more. I'm hoping the need for one more legitimate winger is a major agenda item for Shero and Org. Doesn't even need to be a major all star. As mentioned, bringing in Kulemin would suffice. As would some like Setoguchi or an equiv. In any case, I still feel we are always one wing away from a cup.

Oh...what did Fleury do this "off season"?
Learned again how to stop the puck in the playoffs?

That said, I agree that we don't need a superstar. A guy like Kumy would suffice (and then some, IMO) for Geno and Neal. Maybe a Seto suffices for Sid and Kunitz, although Shero has the space and the assets to aim higher.

I'll put it to you this way: If I told you that Shero could add a Kulemin, a legitimate impact winger for Sid, and a top four defenseman and still have Morrow or Pouliot, Despres, and Harrington or Matta left over for blue chip prospects, would you do it?

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01-06-2013, 12:03 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'm all in on the idea of building around Sid/Geno this season with big bodies and scoring talent. And having Cooke/Sutter/Dupuis be our third line going into the postseason.
THIS.

There probably will be some questions on defense, but no team is going to be perfect. In Sid and Geno I Trust . . .

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01-06-2013, 12:03 PM
  #111
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... going into the postseason.
IF we make the post-season. One bad losing streak and we could be out of the playoff picture.

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01-06-2013, 12:03 PM
  #112
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Isles say goodbye to Yashin and DP?

Yashin was already bought out a few years ago. The cap hit they still have for him is from that buyout. They can't buy out a player who isn't property of the team, so they're stuck with that cap hit for a while longer.

DiPietro, on the other hand, would seem to be a prime candidate for a compliance buyout by the Islanders.

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01-06-2013, 12:04 PM
  #113
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With TB maybe being in a position to drop salary would anyone take malone back if he were made available?

Malone Geno Neal line?

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01-06-2013, 12:04 PM
  #114
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IF we make the post-season. One bad losing streak and we could be out of the playoff picture.
Come on man. No negativity after this ******** lockout.

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01-06-2013, 12:06 PM
  #115
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With TB maybe being in a position to drop salary would anyone take malone back if he were made available?

Malone Geno Neal line?
yes I would take Malone back. For sure. I was |--| close to buying his jersey before we let him go. I would have it before he plays his first game if he comes back.

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01-06-2013, 12:06 PM
  #116
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Come on man. No negativity after this ******** lockout.
Sorry. I'm just a glass-half-empty kind of guy.

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01-06-2013, 12:07 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Bishop7979 View Post
With TB maybe being in a position to drop salary would anyone take malone back if he were made available?

Malone Geno Neal line?
I'd think Malone costs you TK and Tangradi, maybe a little more.

If I can't get Kulemin, then Malone-Geno-Neal works for me.

I will say that nobody ever ****** with Geno when Malone was on his wing.

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01-06-2013, 12:09 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I'd think Malone costs you TK and Tangradi, maybe a little more.

If I can't get Kulemin, then Malone-Geno-Neal works for me.

I will say that nobody ever ****** with Geno when Malone was on his wing.
I make that trade.

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01-06-2013, 12:12 PM
  #119
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I make that trade.
I do too. They'll probably ask for an add, maybe even Dumolin. I'd do that too . . .

BTW, ending sentence from latest Rossi article on the end of the lockout:

“We are mad,” Malkin said. “We will be hungry to win the (Stanley) Cup. It has been too long.”

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01-06-2013, 12:16 PM
  #120
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I do too. They'll probably ask for an add, maybe even Dumolin. I'd do that too . . .

BTW, ending sentence from latest Rossi article on the end of the lockout:

“We are mad,” Malkin said. “We will be hungry to win the (Stanley) Cup. It has been too long.”
If we add Dumoulin, I think we need something else coming back.

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01-06-2013, 12:23 PM
  #121
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I see no trades happening, so here's what I think our opening night line-up will be:

Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis - Crosby - Bennett
Cooke - Sutter - Kennedy
Glass - Vitale - Adams
Jeffrey, Tangradi

Martin - Letang
Orpik - Niskanen
Lovejoy - Engelland
Bortuzzo

Fleury / Vokoun

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01-06-2013, 12:26 PM
  #122
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Beating the dead horse.

In order for Tangradi to have a chance of sucess he must be put in his right element, people keep doing comparisons to King but Tangradis game is different from Kings. He needs an offensive element in his game and not a defense first role.
He's an offensive player, he needs to be put in a role where he can be that player. He's not magically going to change into something he's not.

// end obvious rant
Well, you forgot DB is the coach.

It's been a long lockout, so it's ok.

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01-06-2013, 12:28 PM
  #123
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Well, you forgot DB is the coach.

It's been a long lockout, so it's ok.
Don't worry. It will take everyone a period at most to remember, depending upon whether Kennedy starts the year in the top six.

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01-06-2013, 12:30 PM
  #124
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Don't worry. It will take everyone a period at most to remember, depending upon whether Kennedy starts the year in the top six.
the other thread just reminded me discussing the complete lack of adjustment to the lines.

stay positive. Go Pens

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01-06-2013, 12:46 PM
  #125
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There'll be a few players available for cap reasons next season. Some good trades to be made.

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