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Penguins 2013 (and beyond) lineup discussion | Contract chart in Post #1

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:01 PM
  #176
M0NTY26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I can't shake this out of my brain even though I know it's a little black-and-gold-goggled:

Pens Get:
Clowe
Murray

Sharks Get:
2013 1st
Martin
Despres
+?
...someting like that.
If we could somehow acquire someones first that doesn't make the playoffs this year, that would be a great trade chip, I would think, since all 14 teams will have a shot at the first overall. Not sure who we'd target in a trade like that, but I don't care... I'm just happy to be back on HF talking hockey.

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01-06-2013, 04:01 PM
  #177
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I can't shake this out of my brain even though I know it's a little black-and-gold-goggled:

Pens Get:
Clowe
Murray

Sharks Get:
2013 1st
Martin
Despres
+?
...someting like that.
do it. Right now.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:04 PM
  #178
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Can't help but think Pens will be worse off this season. Lost Michalek, replaced Staal with Sutter. Sure it will be nice to have a healthy Sid and a competent backup, but I don't see the D improving.

Furthermore, I really hope all those rumors about gonchar returning are false. He'll be a liability.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:05 PM
  #179
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I think the days of using immobile D-men is past with DB as our coach.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:06 PM
  #180
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
I'm extremely excited for hockey to be back, but I don't like the makeup of this team at this point. While I think we might get the best combined season out of Sid and Geno yet I am worried about the following:

- Dan Bylsma - Not a fan of his inability to make changes during a losing streak or especially during a playoff series. Plus his defensive system hasn't impressed me and if anything seems to have gotten less effective over time.

- Defense - Not sure if its a system problem or a personnel problem but our defense was horrific last year and I'm worried about it until we see it has been repaired.

- Wingers - Who finishes off the top 6 with Neal, Kunitz, and Dupuis? Will Dupuis be nearly as effective as last year? And how long before Bylsma moves Neal onto Sid's wing leaving Malkin with Kennedy and Tangradi?
As a whole it's about balance.

You need the right mixture of defenseman and a good system in place with the forwards doing their job of helping out/coming back to help the D-man. We also can't forget the abundance of depth that helped them get through two seasons with finals appearances.

If Dan can cut out the zone play and get back to man to man, and Shero makes sure Dan has the right balance of D-man (Pens are heavy, too heavy with puck movers) they'll find themselves in less situations like this past season. It's not about having the picture perfect roster but a balanced one. That also includes having a bit more size which they have some in the lower ranks, but they may find themselves without the one they truly need.

I personally am willing to watch them adopted the Wings method of interference to the point that they're are not called on it. It's a proven system that both teams used to title wins. Yep, I hate the clutch and grab, but beat teams at their own games if the leagues letting it go. Shero and company filled their roster with the wrong balance for that type of hockey, Mainly on defense.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:07 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I think the days of using immobile D-men is past with DB as our coach.
Unfortunately, some of these mobile guys have been too soft in their own zone.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:08 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Can't help but think Pens will be worse off this season. Lost Michalek, replaced Staal with Sutter. Sure it will be nice to have a healthy Sid and a competent backup, but I don't see the D improving.

Furthermore, I really hope all those rumors about gonchar returning are false. He'll be a liability.
Losing Staal and replacing him with a healthy Sidney Crosby and Brandon Sutter is an upgrade.

Losing Michalek and replacing him with Niskanen is certainly not a downgrade. Especially if Nisky can build on last season.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:09 PM
  #183
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Will be interested to see how many of the waiver-eligible defensemen Shero decides to bring into the abbreviated camp. Bortuzzo being scratched today indicates he's a lock. Wonder if they'd keep Strait down in Wilkes-Barre just to prevent possibly losing him if he doesn't make the team.

I imagine Despres will also get a shot since there's no risk in sending him back down.

EDIT: My bad. Sounds like guys like Strait would eventually have to clear waivers to stay in the AHL at the start of the NHL season. So might as well give him a look in camp.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:12 PM
  #184
Dick Sledge
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Unless there's something out there that Shero can't pass up I believe we will go into the season with what we have. Shero will use the "let's see where we're at" kind of tactic going into the season and with the deadline.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:14 PM
  #185
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Word is Shero is trying to bring back Gonchar for the final year of his contract he signed with Ottawa. Niskanen is a good number 5 d-man, and the guys like Despres and Morrow certainly aren't ready for top-4.

If the Penguins are really about winning right now, then bringing Gonchar back for one year is a good move.

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01-06-2013, 04:15 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Word is Shero is trying to bring back Gonchar for the final year of his contract he signed with Ottawa. Niskanen is a good number 5 d-man, and the guys like Despres and Morrow certainly aren't ready for top-4.

If the Penguins are really about winning right now, then bringing Gonchar back for one year is a good move.
I would much rather have Niskanen in the top 4 over Gonchar

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:16 PM
  #187
Ziggyjoe21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Losing Staal and replacing him with a healthy Sidney Crosby and Brandon Sutter is an upgrade.

Losing Michalek and replacing him with Niskanen is certainly not a downgrade. Especially if Nisky can build on last season.
I don't understand what you are saying. Both Sid and Staal played at the same time at the end of last season and playoffs. How is Crosby replacing Staal? Sutter is replacing Staal.

Niskanen played last season at the same time as Michalek. How is Niskanen replacing Michalek? A rookie is replacing Z.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:17 PM
  #188
Ogrezilla
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I think we have worse players than last year, yet will be a better team than last year.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:18 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Can't help but think Pens will be worse off this season. Lost Michalek, replaced Staal with Sutter. Sure it will be nice to have a healthy Sid and a competent backup, but I don't see the D improving.

Furthermore, I really hope all those rumors about gonchar returning are false. He'll be a liability.
Meh, I don't really think so. He's not what he once was but let's not pretend he's some completely useless bum out there either. He's still a very skilled, smart dman that would likely be in any team's top 4. Couple that with departure of Sullivan who, let's face it, was a huge of our PP, and I can see the upside of bringing Gonchar back. Plus, you can't put a price on team chemistry and Gonchar was a steady, calming presence for our team(something we lacked terribly against Philly last Spring).

I mean I'm not saying break the bank to get the guy or anything, but it wouldn't be a terrible move for the team. Especially given the fact that we are certainly a "win now" team in the midst of a shortened season. Managing his minutes a bit could turn him into an extremely valuable player for us.


Last edited by TheSniper26: 01-06-2013 at 04:27 PM.
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Old
01-06-2013, 04:18 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
I would much rather have Niskanen into top 4 over gonchar
Niskanen isn't a top 4 d-man. Gonchar has played well for Ottawa in his first 2 years, and the Penguins defense is currently undermanned for a team that wants to win now.

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01-06-2013, 04:18 PM
  #191
Ziggyjoe21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Word is Shero is trying to bring back Gonchar for the final year of his contract he signed with Ottawa. Niskanen is a good number 5 d-man, and the guys like Despres and Morrow certainly aren't ready for top-4.

If the Penguins are really about winning right now, then bringing Gonchar back for one year is a good move.
No it is not.

Pens had the best offense in the league last year as well as a top 5 PP. Pens had defensive issues and the Flyers' PP dominated during the playoffs. Gonchar's strengths are redundant here and his shortcomings will prove himself a liability here.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:20 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I think the days of using immobile D-men is past with DB as our coach.
this is always what pops in my mind when Douglas Murray is brought up.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:21 PM
  #193
Ziggyjoe21
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Will there be training camp? Pre season?

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:21 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
No it is not.

Pens had the best offense in the league last year as well as a top 5 PP. Pens had defensive issues and the Flyers' PP dominated during the playoffs. Gonchar's strengths are redundant here and his shortcomings will prove himself a liability here.
So what other options do the Penguins have? Niskanen is a #5 at best, and the younger guys certainly aren't ready for top 4.

Remember, the Penguins are a "win now" team. Don't get enamored with the future.

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01-06-2013, 04:22 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Niskanen isn't a top 4 d-man. Gonchar has played well for Ottawa in his first 2 years, and the Penguins defense is currently undermanned for a team that wants to win now.
He was better than Martin most of the time. Nisky played solid defense, he's obviously not an offensive weapon, but neither is Martin.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:24 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Frederick Stanley View Post
He was better than Martin most of the time. Nisky played solid defense, he's obviously not an offensive weapon, but neither is Martin.
Martin played poorly last year, yes - but he's going to be in the top 4. He's proven he can play better than that in the past and if he gets his **** together he should play better this season.

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01-06-2013, 04:25 PM
  #197
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
I don't understand what you are saying. Both Sid and Staal played at the same time at the end of last season and playoffs. How is Crosby replacing Staal? Sutter is replacing Staal.

Niskanen played last season at the same time as Michalek. How is Niskanen replacing Michalek? A rookie is replacing Z.
Crosby was not even close to 100% last season. Having him at the top of his game come postseason and having a shutdown center with offensive upside in Sutter is not a downgrade from last season IMO.

The forward situation must be sorted out for sure though. We need Sid's RW.

As for Niskanen. He's a better fit in our system than Michalek. It was pretty well known that Z was uncomfortable at season's end and Shero allowed him to pick his team to go to.

Adding a guy like Despres or Dumoulin or Bortuzzo upgrades our roster.

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01-06-2013, 04:25 PM
  #198
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It could still happen, but it's worth noting the Gonchar rumor came from the less-than-reliable Bruce Garrioch. And as it stands, the Senators probably need Sarge this year since Cowen is injured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Will there be training camp? Pre season?
Camp, yes. Preseason, almost certainly not. They're trying to get things started as quickly as possible to try and squeeze in a 50-game schedule. No firm dates set yet for anything.

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01-06-2013, 04:25 PM
  #199
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I love Gonchar but I don't want him back here unless its as a #5 and PP time. Don't think he is what we need. We need more of a defensive presence.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:26 PM
  #200
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Nisky? P Mart? Despres? Sarge? Nah. This D group is way too soft to win a Cup. It's a shame that Shero and Bylsma forgot that to win in the playoffs you need grit and strength back there.

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