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Sportsnet: Jamison group about to finalize Coyotes purchase

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01-27-2013, 06:03 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Remain "hopeful" of a positive resolution. You consider how quickly the league closed on sales when an owner has a ton of money, and then you get this. There is only one answer.
There's a huge difference between one entity with a load of cash and a group of entities pooling their cash together under a single curator.

With the former you have only a single input into how you want the transaction to go. The latter you're going to have several inputs wanting their own stamp on it.

For all anyone knows there's enough money pooled to close a sale, but with several people sitting behind the money you might not have a unanimous agreement on where each person plays into it.

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01-27-2013, 06:36 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
There's a huge difference between one entity with a load of cash and a group of entities pooling their cash together under a single curator.

With the former you have only a single input into how you want the transaction to go. The latter you're going to have several inputs wanting their own stamp on it.

For all anyone knows there's enough money pooled to close a sale, but with several people sitting behind the money you might not have a unanimous agreement on where each person plays into it.
I agree with you on this. My concern is, they had so much time to make this happen. GJ's been at it for the last 18months.

I don't know what's holding the whole deal. Many times, those things get settled at the very last minute.

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01-27-2013, 07:01 PM
  #178
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Can anybody think of a worse investment than having 49% ownership of the Coyotes. Not only has your potential investment never made money, but you potentially have ZERO control of what happens going forward.

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01-27-2013, 07:28 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
There's a huge difference between one entity with a load of cash and a group of entities pooling their cash together under a single curator.

With the former you have only a single input into how you want the transaction to go. The latter you're going to have several inputs wanting their own stamp on it.

For all anyone knows there's enough money pooled to close a sale, but with several people sitting behind the money you might not have a unanimous agreement on where each person plays into it.
But TL, GJ has had at least a solid year to amass resources (in what ever incremental amounts) and pool whatever commitments they were prepared to offer.

Now granted, if they were waiting till the ratification of the CBA and clearer optics on revenue sharing, that's understandable. But in the meantime, if Jamison was this crafty, savvy, frontman we've been lead to believe... it stands to reason that several contingency plans would have been laid out within the investment group for as many scenarios as possible. Plan A, B, C, or D readied for implementation not only after the greenlight from the CoG, but also the parameters of revenue sharing known going forward.

So that, to me, says two things. Either Jamison doesn't have a solid plan to implement or he's short on purchasing the franchise and always has been.

I am wiling to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's probably secured close to 75% in commitments via capital but still needs the other 25% just to reach the asking price and another $30-$45M to cover operating expenses. Not just one year. The subsidy, revenue sharing, and at the very least a shortened season, my guess he needs an additional $7-$10M in commitments each season to cover operational expenses and cushion losses.

And speaking of which, maybe therein lies another problem. It's a tough sell already to get buy-in just to reach the franchise purchase goal. Those investors would be somewhat made whole if the Franchise is sold again. It's the backline investors who pool money to cover the ops side and eventual capital calls that make these guys hesitant to commit. That their ROI is so far out of reach, that is.

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01-27-2013, 09:21 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by GF View Post
GJ's been at it for the last 18months.
The NHL would have to have a change of heart on the asking price for this to come together. As Atlanta knows, no news (not even rumblings) is a bad sign.

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01-27-2013, 09:48 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
For all anyone knows there's enough money pooled to close a sale, but with several people sitting behind the money you might not have a unanimous agreement on where each person plays into it.
Sounds like ASG

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01-27-2013, 09:57 PM
  #182
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I must say you guys are very impressive in talking about details about the arizona story.VERY informative learning the business part of it and the individuals involved is very interesting and I congratulate the people on this site

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01-27-2013, 10:15 PM
  #183
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I must say you guys are very impressive in talking about details about the arizona story.VERY informative learning the business part of it and the individuals involved is very interesting and I congratulate the people on this site
People here are more informed than many of the journalists who periodically 'cover' the story (a sad fact of the amount of research they conduct on the story). It's been a saga going on for a few years, has many major players, some who are active in a few chapters then disappear, then players who appear later on. In some ways, it's quite complex and clarity is only offered by having real numbers, which often aren't the easiest to find as well as having a read on the players and how they behave to understand what's real and what's bluster. The Phoenix mega-thread (now on what, the 69th thread?) has all the outside information anyone who would ever write a book on this saga would need. The only information that wouldn't be there is information from the insiders which hasn't been shared publically yet.

I've been a lurker since the 25th-30th thread and maybe a month or so ago, there was an article about the whole Coyotes matter and even as a lurker, I noticed multiple factual errors in that article. This is the kind of subject one really needs to be on top of and trying to sort out the facts to get everything straight and unfortunately journalists who just drop in, write their piece, then spirit off to the next subject, don't even understand that need and probably don't care about the accuracy of the coverage so long as it's 'mostly right'.

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01-27-2013, 10:55 PM
  #184
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... but with several people sitting behind the money you might not have a unanimous agreement on where each person plays into it.
Very true, and if rumoured some months ago that Matthew Hulsizer just might be one of those minority investors with a decent sized stake, I can just imagine how those conversations might be playing out. And this is where leadership would play so important a role however, it would be extremely difficult for a guy like Jamison to assume that mantle when others have a whole lot more into it than he does. Guys with serious amounts of accumulated wealth dont like being told anything, not about to cow tow to some pseudo authority figure or titular head regardless of his NBA/NHL pedigree at the executive level. Its a curious situation, and all speculation at this point as to whether or not that even is one of the problems, but I suppose it could be. Makes as much sense as anything else.

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01-27-2013, 11:35 PM
  #185
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The NHL would have to have a change of heart on the asking price for this to come together. As Atlanta knows, no news (not even rumblings) is a bad sign.
Very smart post, I think you are right.

Doesn't look good for the yotes.

I think Jameison has maxed out the money he can get from investors

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01-27-2013, 11:51 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Very smart post, I think you are right.

Doesn't look good for the yotes.

I think Jameison has maxed out the money he can get from investors
HOW, Tom, can you accurately say GJ Isn't good.... the whole point of this entire saga is to get the Coyotes, the way the Sabres were after the Rigas fiasco, stabilized, where the league isn't running the club, why would Bettman and Daly charge GJ with crafting a favorable lease w/ Glendale, in the midst of a THEN 115 Day lockout.

Everyone's jumping the gun of getting this done quickly, that's not how business or life works, especially now regaining the fan support after watching the league struggle and almost lose a 2nd full season to labor issues.

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01-28-2013, 12:21 AM
  #187
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Everyone's jumping the gun of getting this done quickly, that's not how business or life works, especially now regaining the fan support after watching the league struggle and almost lose a 2nd full season to labor issues.

Except that unlike before we have a deadline now: if this is not signed by January 31st, the sweetheart lease agreement with Glendale is null and void. They would then have to go back to the city and negotiate a new agreement, which is unlikely since the new government is less supportive of the team than the old

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01-28-2013, 12:36 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by gelu88 View Post
Except that unlike before we have a deadline now: if this is not signed by January 31st, the sweetheart lease agreement with Glendale is null and void. They would then have to go back to the city and negotiate a new agreement, which is unlikely since the new government is less supportive of the team than the old
NO, gel, the Coyotes haven't moved yet, and they're not going to, bc the NHL didn't do the lease this time, Jamison was instructed to do that, when the CBA/lockout happened.

nothing changes until at least July, or after this current season, just as it has the last 2 seasons, or unless there's a BOG vote yea or nay on GJ.

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01-28-2013, 12:44 AM
  #189
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NO, gel, the Coyotes haven't moved yet, and they're not going to, bc the NHL didn't do the lease this time, Jamison was instructed to do that, when the CBA/lockout happened.

nothing changes until at least July, or after this current season, just as it has the last 2 seasons, or unless there's a BOG vote yea or nay on GJ.
They wont have to vote ''nay'' on Jamieson if he cant complete the sale. Jamieson will ask the city of Glendale for an extension. The city will say no. So Jamieson will just give up on getting the Coyotes. The NHl will move the team by seasons end.

They might have to say ''Yea'' if he miraculously finds investors within 100 hours...

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01-28-2013, 12:54 AM
  #190
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They wont have to vote ''nay'' on Jamieson if he cant complete the sale. Jamieson will ask the city of Glendale for an extension. The city will say no. So Jamieson will just give up on getting the Coyotes. The NHl will move the team by seasons end.

They might have to say ''Yea'' if he miraculously finds investors within 100 hours...
the sale isn't being settled 3 weeks into a 48 gm season, Pat, the one thing you have consistently missed is the BOG and the NHL haven't reviewed wht Jamison negotiated while they were settling the CBA...

AMULA is automatically renewed, as of 2/1, Pat, COG signed that in '09, for 10 years.


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01-28-2013, 01:42 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
the sale isn't being settled 3 weeks into a 48 gm season, Pat, the one thing you have consistently missed is the BOG and the NHL haven't reviewed wht Jamison negotiated while they were settling the CBA...

AMULA is automatically renewed, as of 2/1, Pat, COG signed that in '09, for 10 years.
What the heck are you talking about? The NHL is not bound to a ten year AMULA with the CoG. The lease was broken in bankruptcy court. The NHL can leave at any time.

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01-28-2013, 03:14 AM
  #192
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What the heck are you talking about? The NHL is not bound to a ten year AMULA with the CoG. The lease was broken in bankruptcy court. The NHL can leave at any time.
The NHL negotiated, after the bankruptcy, the OPTION to 10 consecution annual leases. There was no financial support by Glendale as part of that agreement. Technically, the NHL could renew for several more years (one year at a time). Their mission, should they choose to accept it, is to convince the new COG council to pay them enough to make it worth their while.

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01-28-2013, 06:11 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
the sale isn't being settled 3 weeks into a 48 gm season, Pat, the one thing you have consistently missed is the BOG and the NHL haven't reviewed wht Jamison negotiated while they were settling the CBA...

AMULA is automatically renewed, as of 2/1, Pat, COG signed that in '09, for 10 years.
Teams do get sold during the season. The Jacksonville Jaguars were sold during the season.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...r-760-million/

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01-28-2013, 07:00 AM
  #194
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Teams do get sold during the season. The Jacksonville Jaguars were sold during the season.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...r-760-million/
Kahn had the money to buy the Jaguars at any time.

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01-28-2013, 07:46 AM
  #195
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Kahn had the money to buy the Jaguars at any time.
Yes and? Is there a reason why you said this? Jamison is also supposed to have the money to buy the team.

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01-28-2013, 08:00 AM
  #196
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The NHL negotiated, after the bankruptcy, the OPTION to 10 consecution annual leases. There was no financial support by Glendale as part of that agreement. Technically, the NHL could renew for several more years (one year at a time). Their mission, should they choose to accept it, is to convince the new COG council to pay them enough to make it worth their while.
i agree, its all about the money. on feb1, nothing changes. the nhl has received nothing for this 12-13 season and will continue to receive nothing.

i must admit, im still unsure why the nhl has not yet withdrawn that $20M from the 11-12 escrow ... assuming it hasnt. let alone gone after the city for the outstanding $5M (which if it leave, i doubt will happen, as a gesture of ... "goodwill", hehe).

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01-28-2013, 08:02 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
the sale isn't being settled 3 weeks into a 48 gm season, Pat, the one thing you have consistently missed is the BOG and the NHL haven't reviewed wht Jamison negotiated while they were settling the CBA...

AMULA is automatically renewed, as of 2/1, Pat, COG signed that in '09, for 10 years.
I don't agree with you.

This sale have been a "work in progress" as per the league and GJ since many months. We had many declaration of "positive news in the next few days" the Yotes president etc..., many months ago.

Jamison himself said that the new CBA could ease the sale of the team to his group and make it easier to run this franchise in the current situation. He was certainly giving evidence that the CBA settlement was crucial for his bid.

I am sorry to say it's certainly not and I am not alone.

My guess is many of his investors left the house 3 weeks ago, or, he never had enough partners.

Does the end of the world comes jan 31st? No, at least not officialy and all the posters here know GB will fly to Glendale again etc..

The only card Bettman have not played is a financing by the league itself but, I pretty much convinced it won't happen.

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01-28-2013, 09:54 AM
  #198
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HOW, Tom, can you accurately say GJ Isn't good.... the whole point of this entire saga is to get the Coyotes, the way the Sabres were after the Rigas fiasco, stabilized, where the league isn't running the club, why would Bettman and Daly charge GJ with crafting a favorable lease w/ Glendale, in the midst of a THEN 115 Day lockout.

Everyone's jumping the gun of getting this done quickly, that's not how business or life works, especially now regaining the fan support after watching the league struggle and almost lose a 2nd full season to labor issues.
Honestly this should be enough of a reason to close this deal ASAP. If Jamison has the money, if he is ready to buy the team, why wait ?

People in Phoenix are as much tired as anyone else about this saga. They would like to support the team, but there is no one who would like to spend 5k on season tickets to see the team leave after 48 games.

And without enough fans, Coyotes are doomed to lose money. So, while you naturally lost some support with your stupid lockout that basically changed very little (owners didn't wanted long and expensive contracts, players keep asking for long and expensive contracts), why keep the wound open and spinning the arrow in it, why not simply do yourself and the fans the favor and get the deal done...IF MONEY is not the problem, which I think it still is.

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01-28-2013, 10:03 AM
  #199
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NO, gel, the Coyotes haven't moved yet, and they're not going to, bc the NHL didn't do the lease this time, Jamison was instructed to do that, when the CBA/lockout happened.

nothing changes until at least July, or after this current season, just as it has the last 2 seasons, or unless there's a BOG vote yea or nay on GJ.
No one's saying this means that the Coyotes will play at home against the Oilers on Wednesday and, after the AMULA deal lapses on Thursday, the Nordiques magically appear in Phoenix's place and play against Dallas on Friday.

IF Jamison is as short on funds as he appears, this will go down in a very specific way: all three parties involved currently (NHL, COG, Jamison Group) will put out a very standard release saying how they hope to still be able to work out a deal to keep the Coyotes in Glendale, then radio silence for the remainder of the regular season. Sometime around early May will come whispers that Peladeau/Levin/mystery relocated owner are in talks to quickly buy the team to get them set up for 2013-14, and once the Coyotes are eliminated, an official announcement that they're relocating to Seattle/Quebec/Area 51, complete with Bettman telling the press that he "didn't want to do this, but he had to," "no one wanted to own the Coyotes in Phoenix anymore," and a new one for this occasion: "while we had a good working relationship with the former city council, the current council was not as willing to help us keep the Coyotes in Glendale as the previous one."

Now, if Greg Jamison comes to the Glendale City Council tomorrow with a detailed list of the minority partners, their contributions, and the logical reasons why the AMULA is left unsigned after nearly two months, then I'd imagine the NHL will all but bully the city council into extending the deadline by a month in order to facilitate closing.

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01-28-2013, 11:44 AM
  #200
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IF Jamison is as short on funds as he appears, this will go down in a very specific way: all three parties involved... once the Coyotes are eliminated, an official announcement that they're relocating to Seattle/Quebec/Area 51... Now, if Greg Jamison comes to the Glendale City Council tomorrow with a detailed list of the minority partners, their contributions, and the logical reasons why the AMULA is left unsigned after nearly two months, then I'd imagine the NHL will all but bully the city council into extending the deadline by a month in order to facilitate closing.
Id say thats about right, though Area 51 likely providing transport as opposed to an actual destination, and if Greg Jamision's looking for an extension, then he'd have best started earlier, as according to new Mayor Jerry Weiers (see Phx Megathread above) "will not honour the existing agreement one second past the deadline". Claims he told Jamison just that last week in a telephone conversation. Doesnt strike me these parties are on friendly terms anymore, Glendale willing to make any further accommodations. Countdowns' truly on here, and your exit strategy pretty much the way I too see it playing out. All hope will not be abandoned publicly, but behind the scenes, travel plans being made.

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