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Old
01-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Excellent point since the Hawks had the second best winning percentage against East teams in the conference behind only St. Louis.
It's sort of true, but Chicago still would of made the playoffs if they only played West teams last year. .

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01-16-2013, 12:28 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
2 things this team isn't lacking in the slightest. Again I am sick of hearing about PMD or slick skating players, guess what every team needs a few grinders, muckers and battlers. Bowman thinks this to be untrue, look at his moves, not a single D minded Dman with size, not 1 power forward who uses his body and he got rid of Ladd, Buff, Brouwer and Kopecky, guys who for better or worse filled those roles.

It's one of the main reasons our PP and PK are terrible, on one end we have 5 guys passing the puck around the outside of the zone and taking shots without anyone infront of the goalie. On the PK opposing forwards can camp out in front of the net because we lack any size and toughness in the back, other then Seabs.
That's why Bowman went out and got Roszival and Brookbank. A third Superstar Defenseman is not realistic.

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01-16-2013, 12:31 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
Yeah theoretically Leddy is awesome and takes the next step, Oduya is fast, blocks shots and doesn't turn the puck over all the time, Hammer actually returns to his 09-10 talent level, Rozy plays 48 games on 2nd pair, and...

Q and co. pull their heads out of their ***** on D and PK. Realistically we have Seabs & Keith and a bunch of "guys." And a horrible system.

Unfortunately, the actual results from the past couple of seasons say that this team's D isn't any good.
No. Theoretiaclly Leddy produces at a simular rate to last year, takes a step forward defensively; Oduya plays the way he played for the majority of the time he was in Chicago, not just the playoffs when the entire team and defense struggled; Roszival plays well when he does play, even if it's not every game - same applies to Brookbank and Hammer plays like Hammer; blocks shots, plays well defensively, and does work on the PK.

Based on talent, Chicago's D is as good or better than any team in the league. Obviously, Q and co. need to make adjustments, I've been saying that since the begining of last year.. but I wasn't comparing systems or structures of those teams, simply the talent of their defensemen.

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01-16-2013, 01:37 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
I don't even understand what point you're trying to make here.

TT is only a few weeks removed from being a 2013 draftee, so his development probably would've taken the exact same course it already has if he were past the mark.

So we add his SM-Liiga accomplishments last year to what he has this year. This year, TT has the second-highest PPG of all U20 players in the SM-Liiga (behind only Barkov), he had a great performance on an underperforming Finnish WJC team.

And you're telling me that means he might fall even further than he did last year?
What I am saying is the talent pool is deeper this year than last year, with more high end top talent, and TT even fell last year when there wasn't as deep of a pool of top end players to choose from.

You can point to his pts at the WJC, but some scouts were quoted as saying they weren't all that impressed with him. Not saying that would be a reason for him falling, but if he fell in a weak draft to 18, what's to say he won't fall further in a much deeper draft? Because he has a few more points in SM-Liiga? Because he torched some teams in the consolation round at the WJC?

I like TT, and think he will be a decent top 6 guy, but not great. I just think a talent we can get in this years draft will be better, because I trust our scouting staff.

It's all a moot point anyway, because TT is a 2012 draftee, not a 2013...

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01-16-2013, 01:58 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
What I am saying is the talent pool is deeper this year than last year, with more high end top talent, and TT even fell last year when there wasn't as deep of a pool of top end players to choose from.

You can point to his pts at the WJC, but some scouts were quoted as saying they weren't all that impressed with him. Not saying that would be a reason for him falling, but if he fell in a weak draft to 18, what's to say he won't fall further in a much deeper draft? Because he has a few more points in SM-Liiga? Because he torched some teams in the consolation round at the WJC?

I like TT, and think he will be a decent top 6 guy, but not great. I just think a talent we can get in this years draft will be better, because I trust our scouting staff.

It's all a moot point anyway, because TT is a 2012 draftee, not a 2013...
No, one guy said TT struggled and was quoted as saying he was "very unmotivated untill the tourney was over", which was completely shot down by every Finnish fan that watched the tournament. The same guy said Armia, also on Finland, looked good and was quoted as saying "when motivated was like a man amongst boys". So, Teravainen "struggled" because he was "unmotivated until the tourney was over", yet was still a PpG in the round-robin, including a heroic 2-goal effort against the Swiss to keep Finland's touney alive.. meanwhile, Armia "looked good" while being "unmotivated" aswell. That says all you need to know about the guy Friedman quoted, whom I'm not even sure is a scout.

I think you're putting far too much emphasis on his falling in the 2012 draft. Every single scouting service in hockey had TT as a top-10 pick. There was a run on Dmen and there were quite a few reaches.

Were 27 teams that passed on Coyle right? Were 30+ teams that passed on Justin Schultz right? Some guys simply get passed on and we'll never know why, just be thankful Chicago didn't and we now have an oustanding prospect.

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01-16-2013, 02:06 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
No, one guy said TT struggled and was quoted as saying he was "very unmotivated untill the tourney was over", which was completely shot down by every Finnish fan that watched the tournament. The same guy said Armia, also on Finland, looked good and was quoted as saying "when motivated was like a man amongst boys". So, Teravainen "struggled" because he was "unmotivated until the tourney was over", yet was still a PpG in the round-robin, including a heroic 2-goal effort against the Swiss to keep Finland's touney alive.. meanwhile, Armia "looked good" while being "unmotivated" aswell. That says all you need to know about the guy Friedman quoted, whom I'm not even sure is a scout.

I think you're putting far too much emphasis on his falling in the 2012 draft. Every single scouting service in hockey had TT as a top-10 pick. There was a run on Dmen and there were quite a few reaches.

Were 27 teams that passed on Coyle right? Were 30+ teams that passed on Justin Schultz right? Some guys simply get passed on and we'll never know why, just be thankful Chicago didn't and we now have an oustanding prospect.
I am thankful, somehow this is turning into you guys thinking that I don't like TT. Just stop.

What I am saying is, it's more than possible that our 2013 pick will turn out to be as good or better than TT, which is completely possible.

I'm done now.

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01-16-2013, 02:17 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I am thankful, somehow this is turning into you guys thinking that I don't like TT. Just stop.

What I am saying is, it's more than possible that our 2013 pick will turn out to be as good or better than TT, which is completely possible.

I'm done now.
Yeah, it's possible, but not very likely unless someone in the top-10 falls. Just because this draft is strong doesn't mean you're going to get someone as talented as TT where the Hawks will be picking. TT is a high-end prospect. He would go in the top-10 of the 2013 draft, again, if he were born just a couple weeks later than the was.

You keep going back to "Oh, but the 2013 draft is so strong" as the basis of our argument, without going into detail about any players that are projected to be available when the Hawks pick. It's nice to say that the 2013 draft is strong, and it is.. but that doesn't mean there will be players as talented as TT when Chicago picks. Chicago was extremely fortunate that he fell, as they were with Saad. I would think, if team's could have a redo, that TT would certainly go higher than 18th and Saad would go in the top-20 of his draft. Guys slip, it simply happens.

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01-16-2013, 02:23 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Yeah, it's possible, but not very likely unless someone in the top-10 falls. Just because this draft is strong doesn't mean you're going to get someone as talented as TT where the Hawks will be picking. TT is a high-end prospect. He would go in the top-10 of the 2013 draft, again, if he were born just a couple weeks later than the was.

You keep going back to "Oh, but the 2013 draft is so strong" as the basis of our argument, without going into detail about any players that are projected to be available when the Hawks pick. It's nice to say that the 2013 draft is strong, and it is.. but that doesn't mean there will be players as talented as TT when Chicago picks. Chicago was extremely fortunate that he fell, as they were with Saad. I would think, if team's could have a redo, that TT would certainly go higher than 18th and Saad would go in the top-20 of his draft. Guys slip, it simply happens.
I'm not going to continue to argue, because you are a fan boy of TT and won't change your opinion either way. But I completely disagree that he would be a top 10 pick this year. Like I said, TT is talented, but talent only get's you so far. Just because TT is MAYBE more talented than someone we can get in 2013, doesn't mean he will be the better hockey player.

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01-16-2013, 02:30 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I am thankful, somehow this is turning into you guys thinking that I don't like TT. Just stop.

What I am saying is, it's more than possible that our 2013 pick will turn out to be as good or better than TT, which is completely possible.

I'm done now.
I also like falling back on "it's possible" as an excuse for stating an opinion with no real backing.

It's possible TT will be better than Sidney Crosby.

It's possible Shawn Lalonde will win three Norris trophies.

It's possible the Hawks win the next eight Stanley Cups.

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01-16-2013, 02:40 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
I also like falling back on "it's possible" as an excuse for stating an opinion with no real backing.

It's possible TT will be better than Sidney Crosby.

It's possible Shawn Lalonde will win three Norris trophies.

It's possible the Hawks win the next eight Stanley Cups.
No it's not.
No it's not.
No it's not.

Some of you are acting like TT was the 3rd best player picked in the draft.

My opinion is based on the fact that almost every single scout said that this years draft will be the best since 2003, while they said last years draft was one of the weakest ones. So in one of the weakest drafts, TT wouldn't have been a top 10 pick, but now in one of the strongest drafts in a decade, he suddendly would be just because he has had an OK season in Finland and an OK WJC?

TT has talent, but has proven nothing just like all the picks this year. When I say it's possible that the guy we draft is better than TT, it's closer to being possible than anything you just wrote above.

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01-16-2013, 02:48 PM
  #711
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Yep. There are certain posters here very sensitive to anything negative about any European player in our system, especially prospects. One day they may figure out that playing in the NHL is a big step for all players, no matter how good they were in the past. It is especially difficult to adapt to the quick decisions needed and the physicality on the smaller ice surface (when said player has known only International size rinks). Some can do it but many cannot. TT seems like one of those that can, but he is doing himself no favours by not coming over here to develop.

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01-16-2013, 03:03 PM
  #712
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I have nothing against him, but I don't see him as an elite prospect that some other people do. And imo, TT is clsoer to a guy like Curtis Lazar (later 1st round pick in 2013) than a Hunter Shinkaruk (top 10 pick in 2013).

Just my opinion, just like the TT fan boys will tell me how wrong I am, and that's their opinion.

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01-16-2013, 03:05 PM
  #713
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I love when people argue about kids they've never seen play and try to project their future NHL career.

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01-16-2013, 03:26 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
That's why Bowman went out and got Roszival and Brookbank. A third Superstar Defenseman is not realistic.
Where did I say superstar? I didn't say go and sign Weber. I said they needed to sign a type of defender. Said before FA, during FA, and after the signings that Chicago should have used the money spent on Oduya on Bryan Allen who is much more what they need. A bigger, stay at home D-man who will battle in front of the net.

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01-16-2013, 03:50 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Where did I say superstar? I didn't say go and sign Weber. I said they needed to sign a type of defender. Said before FA, during FA, and after the signings that Chicago should have used the money spent on Oduya on Bryan Allen who is much more what they need. A bigger, stay at home D-man who will battle in front of the net.
Like Brian Campbell.

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01-16-2013, 04:01 PM
  #716
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Who says Shinkaruk is better than TT?--- In my books Shinkaruk is not a top ten pick this year-nor should he be in the next ten picks..the dub is always over-rated on forwards-plus he is almost a year older than TT and who grew an inch and 14 lbs over last year to now being 5'11 175 such that if we project only the same only for TT to the same age as Shinkaruk this year --then TT would be 5'11 and 199 (he has already added weight from 169 at the draft to now listed at 185 on the roster for jokerit,so adding 14 lbs to him by next season's roster start he ought to be near 199 by next sept.'s roster start)-that would be 24 lbs more than the puny shinkaruk..

Shinkaruk is also a -9 this year for Medicine Hat...The almost year younger TT is -3 for Jokerit-but that is against men pros in the SM-liga.. I suspect he's be tearing up the Dub as the top scorer and by miles if he played there instead this year ..

I think Shinkaruk may be another little Jr. phenom who doesn't quite pn out his game in the "show" against Men pros of the NHL ...

AS to how deep the 2013 draft is--it is probably deeper after round one and deeper in the first 5 or 6 in quality --but between 7-20 about the same.,and you start getting lots of bebate about whether or not a guy should be a first rounder or not after about 23 picks in -so it isn't THAT much better if at all--certainly not even as deep or in quality as the d-men of the 2012 first round--nor are the goalies even upto Vasilvski or Subban quality (might not even be a goalie taken in round one this year--maybe SAROS but he is small,albeit very good --questions about all the other goalies--)--so
it may not be -as far as the first round latter half--that much "better" than last year ...But the depth of the 2nd round and after may be stronger for more players in that projected level of talent...So i do not think you can say that a conensus top ten from last year who luckily slipped to Chicago at #18 willbe worse than the 18th pick this draft or even worse than shinkaruk-who I do not rank in the top 21--but might go 22-30 to any team willing to bet on smallish skill from the over-rated dub forward grouping ..But hey,everyone to his/her opinion..

What IS UNDER-RATED are the Dub SAH or 2-way d-men more defensive types who always turn up on NHL rosters --which is why I'd bet on a Madison Bowie "making it" over a puny Shinkaruk typical jr. Dub offensive"star" ---one guy's game will translate to the NHl level -the other may be boom or BUST...

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01-16-2013, 04:01 PM
  #717
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Like Brian Campbell.
What? When was Campbell ever a stay at home D-man.

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01-16-2013, 04:05 PM
  #718
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What? When was Campbell ever a stay at home D-man.
He's joking. Showing all of this want of a stay at home defenseman is silly. Defense was great with Brian Campbell on the 2nd pairing with Hjalmersson.

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01-16-2013, 04:11 PM
  #719
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He's joking. Showing all of this want of a stay at home defenseman is silly. Defense was great with Brian Campbell on the 2nd pairing with Hjalmersson.
Yes, let's bring up 2010 again, because it's so relevant to today. Just like in 2010, the Hawks have the deepest team in the NHL in a long time, they have 1st and 2nd line players on the 3rd line.

So tired of people bringing up 2010 as if it's a relevant and good example of anything post 2010.

Just to point it out, Boyton and Sopel where on that 2010 team too, don't have that now.

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01-16-2013, 04:15 PM
  #720
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Yes, let's bring up 2010 again, because it's so relevant to today. Just like in 2010, the Hawks have the deepest team in the NHL in a long time, they have 1st and 2nd line players on the 3rd line.

So tired of people bringing up 2010 as if it's a relevant and good example of anything post 2010.

Just to point it out, Boyton and Sopel where on that 2010 team too, don't have that now.
Ah yes, the Boyton and Sopel revisionist history. Those guys were both awful that season. Sopel was a pylon that blocked some shots, Boyton wasn't even that good.

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01-16-2013, 04:22 PM
  #721
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Ah yes, the Boyton and Sopel revisionist history. Those guys were both awful that season. Sopel was a pylon that blocked some shots, Boyton wasn't even that good.
No worse then the other 2010 examples people constantly bring up.

We don't need even a good goalie to win.

We don't need a 2nd line C.

Hell why don't we just rebuild the 2010 team, call the Jets, Panthers, Caps, Sharks, and get those guys back.

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01-16-2013, 04:26 PM
  #722
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I love when people argue about kids they've never seen play and try to project their future NHL career.
I've seen all 3 play, but ya, not enough for me to make a solid decision on them. I don't think anyone on HF has those credentials though.

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01-16-2013, 04:27 PM
  #723
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Our defense is fine, its the forwards that need to get better, and obviously the goalie.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with our D corps.

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01-16-2013, 05:10 PM
  #724
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I will go out on a limb and say the player we draft this year in the 1st round will have a better career in the NHL than TT. I think TT is over rated on this board. Ya, he has talent, so did a lot of palyers that never made it to the NHL.

If the scouts are right, this will be the best draft since 2003, you never know what kind of player you are going to get, just like we never know what kind of player TT will be.
I hear this every year about every draft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Yep. There are certain posters here very sensitive to anything negative about any European player in our system, especially prospects. One day they may figure out that playing in the NHL is a big step for all players, no matter how good they were in the past. It is especially difficult to adapt to the quick decisions needed and the physicality on the smaller ice surface (when said player has known only International size rinks). Some can do it but many cannot. TT seems like one of those that can, but he is doing himself no favours by not coming over here to develop.
those posters just know those players better because they actually see them more than once a year...


Why would it be better for TT to come over? Playing for Jokerit now in the Top 6 is the best that could happen to him. AHL can't compete with this leauge.

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01-16-2013, 05:14 PM
  #725
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Our defense is fine, its the forwards that need to get better, and obviously the goalie.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with our D corps.
Right it's not our Ds fault at all that the Hawks were bottom 5 in GA, that's the forwards fault. It's not the DEFENSEmens fault that the DEFENSE was bad at all.

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