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How should the Jets handle Scheifele?

View Poll Results: How should be handle Scheifele?
Keep him down in Barrie, no camp 17 9.94%
Bring him to camp and a few games to gain experience, but send him back down regardless of results 66 38.60%
Bring him to camp and a few games, keep him if he performs 81 47.37%
He should stay up no matter what, he's NHL ready and we need him 7 4.09%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-09-2013, 08:09 AM
  #101
truck
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Originally Posted by Datsun260Z View Post
If you look at last year the Jets found themselves in a hole pretty quick out of the gate and he was in that line up.

Some say this is a future number one center, I find that very hard to see. Number one centers need to produce huge numbers, they generally carry a teams offense. Is this kid the guy to produce 75 to 100 points for the Jets? I dunno about that. Those are serious numbers.

Last year's top five producing centers
Malkin
Stamkos
Spezza
Tavaras
Sedin

I simply don't see that level of play from Scheifele; to me he is a second line center at BEST and you should know, I'd love to be wrong about that. I watched the Canucks develop Kesler and he didn't simply step into the league in 03/04 and produce as he started to in 07/08. And Linden played a huge role in his development. Sundin helped take Kesler to another level too. Point is, I hate to break it to ya'll but the kid has work to do. Players like him are developed, players like Stamkos step into the league and score 23 goals in their first year. For him to make this team it needs to be in a bottom six role and he needs to learn from a journeyman center. The Jets have issues up the middle and the last guy I want him near is Antropov. I think Jokenin will be good for the team and he and Little really should be the top two guys in that line up. After that, you have Burmi and Wellwood most likely working the third line and then the forth should be Slater's. Ultimately, this will be 48 near playoff games and the 8 teams in the east that get that first will be in the second season. Keep in mind that guys will start dropping like flies with tweaked groins, sports hernias and hip flexors before long, he most likely will get a shot at some point however I certainly would err on the side of caution where starting the season with him in the middle is concerned. There's just too much at stake right now.

Thinking the Mark Scheifele should be inserted into an NHL lineup simply because of his try hard attitude is dangerous and idealistic and the bottom line is, he has to produce when the time comes. 1 goal in 7 games told me last year he simply wasn't ready. And that was while playing against nhlers who were in "October" mode, I can't imagine what would happen to the kid in February or March...That time of year could actually ruin him before he even starts...

Z
Two things:

I don't think Scheifele will be a #1 centre, but I hope he can get there.

There is a big difference between a #1 centre and a top 5 centre. I don't think anybody suggested Scheifele would become a top 5 NHLer.

Hopefully Scheifele can develop into a Getzlaf, J Staal or Thorton type player. Nobody expects him to turn into Malkin or Crosby.

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01-09-2013, 08:11 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Two things:

I don't think Scheifele will be a #1 centre, but I hope he can get there.

There is a big difference between a #1 centre and a top 5 centre. I don't think anybody suggested Scheifele would become a top 5 NHLer.

Hopefully Scheifele can develop into a Getzlaf, J Staal or Thorton type player. Nobody expects him to turn into Malkin or Crosby.
Yup: there are 30 #1C's, and 60 top 6 C's in the league - I would hope that he can raise his game to that level at some point. Top 5 in the league? As you state, not likely, but then again, there are only 5 that are at that level. If he mimics Getzlaf, we'd be doing extremely well - if we end up with a strong #2C, then I still think we've done well.


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 01-09-2013 at 08:29 AM.
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01-09-2013, 08:29 AM
  #103
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After watching the WJC, I believe Scheifele has improved a lot since training camp last year. Is he good enough to crack and roster and stay up with the Jets? Probably not. As many have pointed out, he's weak on the puck and needs more strength training, and still needs to gain muscle and bulk.

However, man oh man it was exciting to watch both Sheifele and Trouba - both on the ice, and in interviews afterwards. The pair of them are still giddy kids; thrilled to be playing and modest to a fault with the media. I understand why the Jets' brass had both players as top picks - they both seem to fit the team culture and philosophy.

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01-09-2013, 09:00 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsun260Z View Post
... the bottom line is, he has to produce when the time comes. 1 goal in 7 games told me last year he simply wasn't ready. And that was while playing against nhlers who were in "October" mode, I can't imagine what would happen to the kid in February or March...That time of year could actually ruin him before he even starts...
Z
The comment above is worth noting. He came to camp last year, looked great in the pre-season, but his deficits were obvious as soon as the season began. Back to Barrie with him. That decision was easy, this one will be much harder.
This year, with further skill and size, aided and abetted by his training and recent experience, he will again look awesome at camp, but that is likely to carry over to the first few weeks of the season. It won't last, however, as others catch up and he tires, and the risk is that he will be beaten up and discouraged by season's end. The key question is, what will he or the team have gained and lost in the process?

BTW, as I write this, the poll has 118 votes and it is split, 59-59, right down the middle. Fascinating.

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01-09-2013, 09:04 AM
  #105
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I am a big boy! I made my own chart and everything.

2011-12 Pavelec by Month
MonthGPGSTOI/GWinLossOTLGAGAASASVSV%SO
October 9 9 53:23 3 4 1 29 3.62 252 223 .885 0
November 12 12 58:38 4 5 3 36 3.07 375 339 .904 1
December 11 11 58:39 7 3 1 21 1.95 343 322 .939 2
January 10 9 56:22 3 5 1 25 2.66 273 248 .908 0
February 11 11 60:39 6 4 1 33 2.97 339 306 .903 0
March 13 13 57:36 5 7 1 39 3.13 391 352 .900 1
April 2 2 61:50 1 0 1 8 3.88 63 55 .873 0

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01-09-2013, 09:12 AM
  #106
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I am a big boy! I made my own chart and everything.
You surely are. Good boy. Now take a cookie

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01-09-2013, 09:14 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Two things:

I don't think Scheifele will be a #1 centre, but I hope he can get there.

There is a big difference between a #1 centre and a top 5 centre. I don't think anybody suggested Scheifele would become a top 5 NHLer.

Hopefully Scheifele can develop into a Getzlaf, J Staal or Thorton type player. Nobody expects him to turn into Malkin or Crosby.
Three things Truck:

1, nice to meet ya
2, I am not saying he will be a #1, I am saying to those who think he's this teams savior, whoooaa. know what I mean...
3, I only used last years top five centers to make my point. I echo myself when I say, if that kid is a #2 center (and a good one, say 25 goals 30A) I will be over the moon about it.

Z

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01-09-2013, 09:16 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by GermanJetsFan View Post
You surely are. Good boy. Now take a cookie
I am also a dummy and put this in the wrong post.

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01-09-2013, 09:18 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DarthMonty View Post
After watching the WJC, I believe Scheifele has improved a lot since training camp last year. Is he good enough to crack and roster and stay up with the Jets? Probably not. As many have pointed out, he's weak on the puck and needs more strength training, and still needs to gain muscle and bulk.

However, man oh man it was exciting to watch both Sheifele and Trouba - both on the ice, and in interviews afterwards. The pair of them are still giddy kids; thrilled to be playing and modest to a fault with the media. I understand why the Jets' brass had both players as top picks - they both seem to fit the team culture and philosophy.
And too add, I noticed Scheifele stick that leg out in the loss to the US, I didn't think much of that at all. VERY dangerous and very dirty. As far as Trouba goes, off topic I know, I was very impressed with his entire skill set, size and effort. Wow. I was very wrong about him initially. I know you can't really gauge much from the wjr's as some guys play the best hockey of their lives and we never see anything from them in the show, but really, back to Scheifele...I thought is was merely O.K...

z

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01-09-2013, 09:27 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Datsun260Z View Post
Three things Truck:

1, nice to meet ya
2, I am not saying he will be a #1, I am saying to those who think he's this teams savior, whoooaa. know what I mean...
3, I only used last years top five centers to make my point. I echo myself when I say, if that kid is a #2 center (and a good one, say 25 goals 30A) I will be over the moon about it.

Z
He may eventually be a #2 centre, but I don't think anybody said firmly that he would be a #1.

Also, I'm not quite sure what point naming the top 5 makes. You might as well have said Schiefele won't be a number 1 centre because:

MARIO LEMIEUX!!

There were 25 #1 centre who weren't on your list and better than Little is all I really want.

FWIW

25G, 30A for 55P would have ranked him tied for 24th among centres last year.

That would make him a number one on a handful of teams.

A consistent 55-65 point scorer would be huge.

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01-09-2013, 09:30 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsun260Z View Post
Three things Truck:

1, nice to meet ya
2, I am not saying he will be a #1, I am saying to those who think he's this teams savior, whoooaa. know what I mean...
3, I only used last years top five centers to make my point. I echo myself when I say, if that kid is a #2 center (and a good one, say 25 goals 30A) I will be over the moon about it.

Z
I think the issue was if you actually look through this thread...there aren't many posts extolling Schiefele as "this teams savior". It seems most of us have a similar expectation to you, he should top out as an above average 2c or a average to below average 1C.

Also off last years stats, check nhl.com again, 55 points would have been good for 24th Center in the league, that's a 1C.

edit:

Also this quote
Quote:
Thinking the Mark Scheifele should be inserted into an NHL lineup simply because of his try hard attitude is dangerous and idealistic and the bottom line is, he has to produce when the time comes. 1 goal in 7 games told me last year he simply wasn't ready. .
there was literally 2 of 118 votes for keeping him up even if he doesn't earn it...

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01-09-2013, 09:42 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I think the issue was if you actually look through this thread...there aren't many posts extolling Schiefele as "this teams savior". It seems most of us have a similar expectation to you, he should top out as an above average 2c or a average to below average 1C.

Also off last years stats, check nhl.com again, 55 points would have been good for 24th Center in the league, that's a 1C.
Also worth noting that Boston had 3 players above that benchmark, SJ also had 3 and Detroit had 2, so only 19 teams actually had a more productive #1. Little ranked 42nd with 46 points.

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01-09-2013, 09:45 AM
  #113
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OK, one last thought...not an opinion on his ability, but more a prediction about Scheif and the whole team...I think Scheif's fate this year is tied to the team's record in the first 10 games. As the saying goes, "a rising tide lifts all boats" and if the team has a winning record, and he is a part of it, he'll stay. If the people around him mess up, even if he's doing OK, his ship is sunk and he goes back.

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01-09-2013, 09:50 AM
  #114
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I'm not sure of anyone here that thinks Scheifele would be the "team's savior". I can though see his ceiling as being something that eventually reaches a Jordan Staal type of game. Scheifele's defensive acumen is off the charts. He just lacks some strength right now, but he is a big, rangy kid; a glance at his father from the day Mark was drafted though suggests he will eventually get there. His Dad is HUGE. Player value isn't limited to just points either, BTW. I'd argue that a Ron Francis or a Jordan Staal is every bit as valuable a player to a team versus any of the "top five producing centers" from last year, frankly.

So anyway, savior, no. A big asset when used in a shutdown role while contributing some offensive help as well eventually? Quite possible.

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01-09-2013, 10:00 AM
  #115
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OK, one last thought...not an opinion on his ability, but more a prediction about Scheif and the whole team...I think Scheif's fate this year is tied to the team's record in the first 10 games. As the saying goes, "a rising tide lifts all boats" and if the team has a winning record, and he is a part of it, he'll stay. If the people around him mess up, even if he's doing OK, his ship is sunk and he goes back.
Bob MacKenzie says the 10 game thing will be a 6 game thing this year.

Now we know.

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01-09-2013, 10:07 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Datsun260Z View Post
If you look at last year the Jets found themselves in a hole pretty quick out of the gate and he was in that line up.

Some say this is a future number one center, I find that very hard to see. Number one centers need to produce huge numbers, they generally carry a teams offense. Is this kid the guy to produce 75 to 100 points for the Jets? I dunno about that. Those are serious numbers.

Last year's top five producing centers
Malkin
Stamkos
Spezza
Tavaras
Sedin

I simply don't see that level of play from Scheifele; to me he is a second line center at BEST and you should know, I'd love to be wrong about that. I watched the Canucks develop Kesler and he didn't simply step into the league in 03/04 and produce as he started to in 07/08. And Linden played a huge role in his development. Sundin helped take Kesler to another level too. Point is, I hate to break it to ya'll but the kid has work to do. Players like him are developed, players like Stamkos step into the league and score 23 goals in their first year. For him to make this team it needs to be in a bottom six role and he needs to learn from a journeyman center. The Jets have issues up the middle and the last guy I want him near is Antropov. I think Jokenin will be good for the team and he and Little really should be the top two guys in that line up. After that, you have Burmi and Wellwood most likely working the third line and then the forth should be Slater's. Ultimately, this will be 48 near playoff games and the 8 teams in the east that get that first will be in the second season. Keep in mind that guys will start dropping like flies with tweaked groins, sports hernias and hip flexors before long, he most likely will get a shot at some point however I certainly would err on the side of caution where starting the season with him in the middle is concerned. There's just too much at stake right now.

Thinking the Mark Scheifele should be inserted into an NHL lineup simply because of his try hard attitude is dangerous and idealistic and the bottom line is, he has to produce when the time comes. 1 goal in 7 games told me last year he simply wasn't ready. And that was while playing against nhlers who were in "October" mode, I can't imagine what would happen to the kid in February or March...That time of year could actually ruin him before he even starts...

Z
I agree with a lot of this, but wasn't Scheifele on a line with Kendall McArdle and Brett MacLean for the first few games last season? Look at some of the guys your list of elite 1C's got to play with. Neal, St. Louis, Sedin...even guys like Parenteau, Moulson and Michalek are a huge step above Scheifele's linemates.

Yeah, it's unlikely that Scheifele ends up as an elite 1C, but I could see him as Top 30 for sure.

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01-09-2013, 10:14 AM
  #117
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I agree with a lot of this, but wasn't Scheifele on a line with Kendall McArdle and Brett MacLean for the first few games last season? Look at some of the guys your list of elite 1C's got to play with. Neal, St. Louis, Sedin...even guys like Parenteau, Moulson and Michalek are a huge step above Scheifele's linemates.

Yeah, it's unlikely that Scheifele ends up as an elite 1C, but I could see him as Top 30 for sure.


It's funny 'cause it's true.

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01-09-2013, 10:17 AM
  #118
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Z


I don't think you are that far off where most people are with Mark. I am hoping for a top #2 or decent #1 centre. I think he has the character and drive to continually improve his game to get there. I agree with the Getzlaf comparison style wise and before you chuckle this deserves a closer look. I wish I could do one of those fancy charts but this will have to do.

Getzlaf had one full year of Juniors before his draft eligible year and like Mark he played 2 years after his draft year (so they both have a sample size we can compare)

In his draft year Ryan played 70 games and had 68 pts for a PPG avg of .97. In his draft year Mark played 66 games and had 75 points for a 1.13 PPG avg.

In the post draft year Ryan took a nice jump up and played 49 games and had 75 points and an impressive 1.53 PPG avg. Mark showed nice progress with his two way game and also played 47 games and had 63 points with a PPG average of 1.34.

In there last year in Juniors Ryan took a step back and played 51 games and had 54 points for a 1.05 PPG average. This year after 29 games Mark has 48 points and a very impressive 1.65 PPG average.

Ryan took a slightly slower path to the NHL and split time between the AHL and NHL in the season after Juniors but was quite productive in both situations.

My hopes is that Mark who is a similar height will fill out and eventually play at somewhere around 210 pounds. I doubt Mark will ever be pretty to watch but if he fills out there is no reason to think he can't put up points in the NHL because say what you will Mark produces points.

I am not sure whether it will be next year 2013-14 but by the following season 2014-15 I wouldn't be surprised if Mark gets around 50 points in the NHL. I just see him being a productive player points wise. Just like it is wise to keep our expectations in check due to his obvious current limitations (balance) it is also wise to keep in mind that although Mark's game may not be aesthetically pleasing from a balance and silky skating perspective it has always been effective from a production standpoint and there is no reason to think that won't continue at the next level. Despite all the pretty skaters on team Canada Mark is the guy that gets put on the 1st line out of position with RNH and that is for a reason, he is smart, offensively dangerous, and finds a way.


Last edited by ps241: 01-09-2013 at 10:24 AM.
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01-09-2013, 01:24 PM
  #119
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Apparently Scheifele was working on his verbal release of the phrase "ya know" and has increased its frequency way beyond Jets' brass expectations. IIRC he is now averaging 23.8 "ya know"'s for every 60 seconds of interview. Pretty nuts that he is only 19 y/o and so close to one "ya know" every 2 seconds. I don't believe this differs much if he's on radio or TV which bodes well for his versatility. I was in favor of keeping the lad down in Barrie for development but this has me strongly re-considering. Pumped for his first post-game presser.

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01-09-2013, 01:43 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Tintin's Ghost View Post
Apparently Scheifele was working on his verbal release of the phrase "ya know" and has increased its frequency way beyond Jets' brass expectations. IIRC he is now averaging 23.8 "ya know"'s for every 60 seconds of interview. Pretty nuts that he is only 19 y/o and so close to one "ya know" every 2 seconds. I don't believe this differs much if he's on radio or TV which bodes well for his versatility. I was in favor of keeping the lad down in Barrie for development but this has me strongly re-considering. Pumped for his first post-game presser.
Almost up there with Bettman's prowess with the words "quite frankly"....

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01-09-2013, 01:52 PM
  #121
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Almost up there with Bettman's prowess with the words "quite frankly"....
!!!

I was suprised no ones mentioned this (at leas thtat i've noticed) as i thought that was getting a little excessive during the loc... during "the dark times"...

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01-09-2013, 01:57 PM
  #122
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!!!

I was suprised no ones mentioned this (at leas thtat i've noticed) as i thought that was getting a little excessive during the loc... during "the dark times"...
He even had Daly doing it. ******* adverbs....

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01-09-2013, 02:08 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Tintin's Ghost View Post
Apparently Scheifele was working on his verbal release of the phrase "ya know" and has increased its frequency way beyond Jets' brass expectations. IIRC he is now averaging 23.8 "ya know"'s for every 60 seconds of interview. Pretty nuts that he is only 19 y/o and so close to one "ya know" every 2 seconds. I don't believe this differs much if he's on radio or TV which bodes well for his versatility. I was in favor of keeping the lad down in Barrie for development but this has me strongly re-considering. Pumped for his first post-game presser.
I'm waiting for truck's or garret's statistical breakdown. He might be seeing easy reporting competition which might be inflating his "ya know" numbers. Regardless, they're impressive numbers, if given the proper postgame role, he could really take off for the Jets.

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01-09-2013, 03:57 PM
  #124
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I agree with a lot of this, but wasn't Scheifele on a line with Kendall McArdle and Brett MacLean for the first few games last season? Look at some of the guys your list of elite 1C's got to play with. Neal, St. Louis, Sedin...even guys like Parenteau, Moulson and Michalek are a huge step above Scheifele's linemates.

Yeah, it's unlikely that Scheifele ends up as an elite 1C, but I could see him as Top 30 for sure.
Recipe for failure? Check.

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01-09-2013, 04:35 PM
  #125
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there was literally 2 of 118 votes for keeping him up even if he doesn't earn it...
And I was one of them just being silly haha

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