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Are good high salary teams going to be forced to destroy their teams

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01-07-2013, 08:59 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
except that in a league where only a few teams qualify for post season play, the yankees have missed the playoffs once since 1996. they have won 5 world series and lost two others in that period of time. they won their division 10 years in a row and 13 out of 18 years. what world are you living in that they havent been buying championships?
They built great teams. Detroit decided to build a great team as well and they have beaten the Yanks in the playoffs a few times in recent years.

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01-07-2013, 09:01 PM
  #102
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they won their division 10 years in a row and 13 out of 18 years. what world are you living in that they havent been buying championships?
In the past 8 seasons, the Canucks have won their division more often than the Yankees have won theirs.

The Yankees have won one championship in the past 12 years. If they're trying to buy championships, they're doing a damn ****** job of it.

 
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01-07-2013, 09:02 PM
  #103
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My argument is that great franchises should be able to build great teams. Then when those teams play each other you get to see the sport played at its best. Your argument is that less than great franchises should be entitled to win the cup even if that means you never get to see the game played at its best. The Wings will continue to be a contender because they have great management but they will never be able to display the game at its best ever again. Not to mention that the Wings earn those Benjamins. Why should they be handcuffed so a team that doesn't earn the money can still be entitled to win?
Great franchises = the ones with the most smarts not the ones with the most dollars. Before free agency ALL great teams were built with brains not bucks. If you have an issue with that then I suggest you petition the courts repeal their rulings on free agency. Good luck with that.

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01-07-2013, 09:09 PM
  #104
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Great franchises = the ones with the most smarts not the ones with the most dollars. Before free agency ALL great teams were built with brains not bucks. If you have an issue with that then I suggest you petition the courts repeal their rulings on free agency. Good luck with that.
Apparently the most smarts=the most dollars which is why the Wings have been so successful. Detroit has a population of just under a million yet the Wings profit. The Rangers outspent them every year they won the cup precap and yet the Wings still came out on top when the Rangers often failed to even make the playoffs. If it is just about smarts why does there need to be a cap? Why can't the poor teams just be smart?

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01-07-2013, 09:09 PM
  #105
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Great franchises are those with both the smarts and the dollars.

As fans we are being deprived of seeing the game played at its highest level.

 
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01-07-2013, 09:11 PM
  #106
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In the past 8 seasons, the Canucks have won their division more often than the Yankees have won theirs.

The Yankees have won one championship in the past 12 years. If they're trying to buy championships, they're doing a damn ****** job of it.
Exactly. The Tigers spent way less than the Yanks and got beat in the World Series by a team who spent even less.

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01-07-2013, 09:15 PM
  #107
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Great franchises are those with both the smarts and the dollars.

As fans we are being deprived of seeing the game played at its highest level.
This is very true. When Illitch bought the Wings they were often called the Dead Wings. He gave away cars just to get people to come to the games. He rebuilt the franchise and turned it into a profitable winner by hiring well and marketing the product. He turned smarts into dollars and fans got to see great hockey teams play great hockey.

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01-07-2013, 09:19 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
My argument is that great franchises should be able to build great teams. Then when those teams play each other you get to see the sport played at its best. Your argument is that less than great franchises should be entitled to win the cup even if that means you never get to see the game played at its best. The Wings will continue to be a contender because they have great management but they will never be able to display the game at its best ever again. Not to mention that the Wings earn those Benjamins. Why should they be handcuffed so a team that doesn't earn the money can still be entitled to win?
Two things. One I think you're over valuing the teams of the past. And two I think you're not giving present teams enough credit. Philly has an amazing team. As does LA, Chicago, Vancouver, Rangers and (to a lesser extent) Pittsburgh. I think those 6 are probably the best/deepest teams in the league.

Here's a list of the cup winners (that truly had talented teams). Anaheim, Detroit, Chicago, Boston, LA. I consider Pittsburgh and Carolina to have been lucky. I would put any of those 5 teams against any other cup winning team in the last 15 years.

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01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
  #109
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There is no way a teams that won post-cap would beat the Dallas Stars of 1999-2001 nor the Colorado Avalanche of that same time period or the Detroit Red Wings. Teams aren't 4 lines deep anymore because of the cap. Now you have to sign garbage 3rd and 4th line players. I want to see stacked teams go against each other. This whole thing about buying free agents is a myth. The teams that signed free agents to carry their franchise would always end up missing the playoffs or getting blown out early in the playoffs.

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01-07-2013, 09:47 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
My argument is that great franchises should be able to build great teams. Then when those teams play each other you get to see the sport played at its best. Your argument is that less than great franchises should be entitled to win the cup even if that means you never get to see the game played at its best. The Wings will continue to be a contender because they have great management but they will never be able to display the game at its best ever again. Not to mention that the Wings earn those Benjamins. Why should they be handcuffed so a team that doesn't earn the money can still be entitled to win?
The lockout is over. The cap is here to stay, teams have to operate in the same manner, no matter how many fans of big budget teams whine about it - and that's a GOOD thing for hockey. The vast majority of hockey fans agree with this.

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01-07-2013, 09:55 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
There is no way a teams that won post-cap would beat the Dallas Stars of 1999-2001 nor the Colorado Avalanche of that same time period or the Detroit Red Wings. Teams aren't 4 lines deep anymore because of the cap. Now you have to sign garbage 3rd and 4th line players. I want to see stacked teams go against each other. This whole thing about buying free agents is a myth. The teams that signed free agents to carry their franchise would always end up missing the playoffs or getting blown out early in the playoffs.
I think Dallas 98/99 team would have been a tough team to beat, but those 5 teams could have matched fairly evenly up against Colorado and Detroit of the 90s. In fact LA was likely more skilled than either of those teams. Perhaps less top end talent (Stevie Y, Sakic, Forsberg, Federov, etc) but more depth. People think back and seem to forget that even then the 3rd lines were shutdown/grinder types.

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01-07-2013, 09:58 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
There is no way a teams that won post-cap would beat the Dallas Stars of 1999-2001 nor the Colorado Avalanche of that same time period or the Detroit Red Wings. Teams aren't 4 lines deep anymore because of the cap. Now you have to sign garbage 3rd and 4th line players. I want to see stacked teams go against each other. This whole thing about buying free agents is a myth. The teams that signed free agents to carry their franchise would always end up missing the playoffs or getting blown out early in the playoffs.
Yeah and you get to see blowouts and non-competitive affairs the other 80% of the time. Let me guess; your team is one of the stacked teams.

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01-07-2013, 10:01 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
I think Dallas 98/99 team would have been a tough team to beat, but those 5 teams could have matched fairly evenly up against Colorado and Detroit of the 90s. In fact LA was likely more skilled than either of those teams. Perhaps less top end talent (Stevie Y, Sakic, Forsberg, Federov, etc) but more depth. People think back and seem to forget that even then the 3rd lines were shutdown/grinder types.
Hence why the third line has always been referred to as the "checking line".....even back in the 06 days when all the teams were far more stacked than teams of the '90s.

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01-07-2013, 10:09 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
Hudler isn't even on the team anymore and White isn't a top pairing Dman. Of course you guys are missing the whole point. Winning the cup in a parity league is cheapened. I really don't see taking pride in your team winning because the system was modified to make it possible. I watch pro sports because I want to see the best not because I want to see the average. Whether my team is the best or not I still would rather watch 2 great teams instead of 2 average teams. Parity is a disease.
No, you're missing the point. Winning the cup when your GM and organization don't have to compete on a level playing field with the other GMs is cheap.

You saw the best in the Stanley Cup Finals last June, sorry that it wasn't the Dead Things.

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01-07-2013, 10:15 PM
  #115
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In the past 8 seasons, the Canucks have won their division more often than the Yankees have won theirs.

The Yankees have won one championship in the past 12 years. If they're trying to buy championships, they're doing a damn ****** job of it.
I thought that was rather obvious.

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01-07-2013, 10:20 PM
  #116
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I hope so! I thought the original spirit of the cap was to ensure a lot of parity. Speaking from the perspective of the Broken Down Leafs, it was a shame to see us lose Leetch, Mogilny, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, etc. in 2005 and even more devastating for Tampa to see Khabibulin, Kubina, Richards and Boyle leave one after the other. The cap was so high that all the talent was being locked up. It will be nice to play vulture if and when teams start to feel the pinch.

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01-07-2013, 10:23 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
I think Dallas 98/99 team would have been a tough team to beat, but those 5 teams could have matched fairly evenly up against Colorado and Detroit of the 90s. In fact LA was likely more skilled than either of those teams. Perhaps less top end talent (Stevie Y, Sakic, Forsberg, Federov, etc) but more depth. People think back and seem to forget that even then the 3rd lines were shutdown/grinder types.
Really? The 97 Wings had Larionov (the Russian Gretzky) as their 3rd line center and Draper (Selke Winner) as their 4th line center. A blueline with Lidstrom, Fetisov, and Konstantinov.
LA isn't even close and no team since the cap has been. Including the 08 and 09 Wings.

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01-07-2013, 10:27 PM
  #118
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No, you're missing the point. Winning the cup when your GM and organization don't have to compete on a level playing field with the other GMs is cheap.

You saw the best in the Stanley Cup Finals last June, sorry that it wasn't the Dead Things.
Your missing the point. A no cap league is a level playing field. Every owner has the opportunity to build a great franchise, a great team, and a great fan base. If an owner fails to do these things does he still deserve to be a champion?

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01-07-2013, 10:32 PM
  #119
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No, you're missing the point. Winning the cup when your GM and organization don't have to compete on a level playing field with the other GMs is cheap.

You saw the best in the Stanley Cup Finals last June, sorry that it wasn't the Dead Things.
By the way, Matt Greene is the cousin of a close friend of mine. He is a Michigan boy and when he brought the cup home I was invited. Unfortunately I was unable to attend.

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01-07-2013, 10:33 PM
  #120
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Hence why the third line has always been referred to as the "checking line".....even back in the 06 days when all the teams were far more stacked than teams of the '90s.
Yes but go look at LA or Boston's 'checking' line. LA had one of Gagner or Penner there - neither of which are checking line forwards. Boston had 2 of Peverley/Recchi/Ryder/etc there. None of those guys are checking forwards.

Anaheim was a team with a true checking line (one that was amazing) and 2 stacked forward lines. Same goes for Chicago. So I'm not seeing this "teams today suck when compared to teams of the 90s".

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01-07-2013, 10:41 PM
  #121
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Your missing the point. A no cap league is a level playing field. Every owner has the opportunity to build a great franchise, a great team, and a great fan base. If an owner fails to do these things does he still deserve to be a champion?
Wrong. Because not all franchises are equally wealthy nor will they EVER be equally wealthy without absolute revenue sharing, hence, by definition, the playing field is NOT level. If you want a purely level playing field with no cap then get rid of free agency since, then, it won't matter how wealthy the franchise is.

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01-07-2013, 10:41 PM
  #122
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If people want 'stacked teams' then I suggest they watch the Olympics or the exhibition affair that is the All-Star game.

If you want a league where you have competitive, entertaining affairs throughout the entire schedule, then you want a league with parity.

Proponents of a 'parity free' league imply the sport is unwatchable or not entertaining in it's current state. As if only 'stacked vs stacked' qualifies as good entertainment. Rubbish. Leagues in which parity exists are successful and entertaining. If you don't find entertainment in anything less than two stacked teams competing against each other, and dynasties that you can attach yourself to/long-term bandwagons, I honestly question your love of the sport, or maybe even sports in general.

Or maybe these people are idealogical sports 'purists'. Despite probably never having ever skated on NHL ice, drawn up a play, scouted a player, or with their own naked eye be able to distinguish an NHL calibre player from a non-NHL calibre player without a use of a stat book or a commentator, these guys can only be pleased by 'the best vs the best'. The WJC tournament must have been unendurable with all the non-NHL calibre talent on display. CFL, NFL, all unwatchable. Probably couldn't derive an ounce of enjoyment from a college b-ball or bowl event, with all the low-level talent. It's a mystery why hundreds of millions do. Minor league sports? 2nd tier English football? Probably all unwatchable because of the non-stacked teams, right?

If you want bought dynasties competing against each other a few times, and seasons that are mostly foregone conclusions, this league is not for you; I suggest watching the MLB and 'proudly' exclaiming yourself a Yankees fan, or following the EPL and becoming a fan of one of the usual six teams. Basically stop watching hockey at any level aside from Olympic, as no team in the universe meets your prerequisites for being 'great', and hockey is 'mediocre'.

And if you really don't find the NHL entertaining and you think it's unwatchable, what are you doing here? You're just wasting your fingers typing about it. For about 10 years at least (8 with opt-out from either side). I'd figure only fans would be coming here. I don't like country music; you don't see me going to a country music forum and arguing about how terrible it is.

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01-07-2013, 10:42 PM
  #123
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By the way, Matt Greene is the cousin of a close friend of mine. He is a Michigan boy and when he brought the cup home I was invited. Unfortunately I was unable to attend.
Why would you bother? I mean obviously to you he is a mediocre player and the league he plays in is uninteresting and boring.

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01-07-2013, 10:43 PM
  #124
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By the way, Matt Greene is the cousin of a close friend of mine. He is a Michigan boy and when he brought the cup home I was invited. Unfortunately I was unable to attend.
That's awesome. You shouldn't have missed that. It might have been the last time you would get to see it up close for a very long time.

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01-07-2013, 10:45 PM
  #125
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That's awesome. You shouldn't have missed that. It might have been the last time you would get to see it up close for a very long time.
Why? Matt Greene and the Kings can still win another cup.

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