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Siegel: Leafs stand to benefit from new CBA

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Old
01-07-2013, 12:03 AM
  #26
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Prior to the lockout, Burke supporters claimed that the Kovalchuk-esque cap circumventing contracts would be punished in the new cba.

Leaf fan realists pointed out that it wouldn't make much sense for Bettman to punish and anger his bosses and that there probably wouldn't be any punishments.

I honestly don't know how this turned out.

I imagine that the leaf fan realists were probably right (because they usually are) but don't know for sure. If I am wrong, I will humbly admit it.

Anyone know?

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01-07-2013, 12:04 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Obviously the same reason why Burke didn't trade Kaberle to SJ at the draft, he calculated he could get more at the deadline, and he did with Boston.
But you yourself said it was a difficult contract to trade. Surely if you intend to trade someone, you dont go out of your way to make it more difficult? Again, your stance makes no sense.

And again, gonna be some disappointed fans come September.

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01-07-2013, 12:06 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Prior to the lockout, Burke supporters claimed that the Kovalchuk-esque cap circumventing contracts would be punished in the new cba.

Leaf fan realists pointed out that it wouldn't make much sense for Bettman to punish and anger his bosses and that there probably wouldn't be any punishments.

I honestly don't know how this turned out.

I imagine that the leaf fan realists were probably right (because they usually are) but don't know for sure. If I am wrong, I will humbly admit it.

Anyone know?
Probably. Oh well, maybe Burke can go GM whatever team signed Bozak after he was outright released.

The good news is that whatever GM replaces the obviously about to be fired Burke will have some wiggle room and no real bad contracts to deal with when the Cap dips by nearly 10m. I guess those Burke supporters were right about something after all.

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01-07-2013, 12:08 AM
  #29
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Do some of you seriously believe BB will let Kessel walk? PK will get fair market value, end of story.

Lupul will be resigned as well, the exact figure will be based on his performance this season, he's an integral part of the team.

Grabovski @ 5.5 is fair, this has already been discussed to death. He's a solid #2C and good luck replacing him through free agency. Regardless, that's not how you build a team sillies.

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01-07-2013, 12:12 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Action Jackson View Post
Do some of you seriously believe BB will let Kessel walk? PK will get fair market value, end of story.

Lupul will be resigned as well, the exact figure will be based on his performance this season, he's an integral part of the team.

Grabovski @ 5.5 is fair, this has already been discussed to death. He's a solid #2C and good luck replacing him through free agency. Regardless, that's not how you build a team sillies.
Its a myth perpetuated by those who wish to dump on everything blue and white in the off chance that they get to say 'I told you so' once in a while.

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01-07-2013, 12:40 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Probably. Oh well, maybe Burke can go GM whatever team signed Bozak after he was outright released.

The good news is that whatever GM replaces the obviously about to be fired Burke will have some wiggle room and no real bad contracts to deal with when the Cap dips by nearly 10m. I guess those Burke supporters were right about something after all.
That's what leafs nation has resorted to.
It's pathetic. A whole new low.

Brian Burke has now "succeeded" in the eyes of leaf fans when he simply doesn't "fail".
Not "failing" is the new "success".

"The leafs are only ELEVENTH worst in salary cap going into next season. It's better than being 5th last. Or dead last.
GOOD JOB BURKIE!!!!"

A new low, not just in leaf history, but maybe in human history.

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01-07-2013, 12:44 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Prior to the lockout, Burke supporters claimed that the Kovalchuk-esque cap circumventing contracts would be punished in the new cba.

Leaf fan realists pointed out that it wouldn't make much sense for Bettman to punish and anger his bosses and that there probably wouldn't be any punishments.

I honestly don't know how this turned out.

I imagine that the leaf fan realists were probably right (because they usually are) but don't know for sure. If I am wrong, I will humbly admit it.

Anyone know?
Someone else posted somewhere up to 3M can be left on the contract signings team's cap hit.

So you might be wrong again.

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01-07-2013, 12:52 AM
  #33
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It's not that bad considering Komisarek is making 4.5 million.. Or a guy like Briere / Lecavalier. If we amnesty Komisarek, Grabovski will be our worst contract next year and that's a pretty good position, IMO.
Komisarek is off the books next year. His contract is irrelevant. We may end up being stuck with Grabo for 5 years.

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What's wrong with giving them more than 5.5M? If they keep up their play from last season, or even improve on it, then they deserve it.
It really depends on what him and his agent will ask for. If he goes PPG again for this shortened season, he would have been a PPG player for almost two full seasons. Considering Grabo is a $5.5M player (apparently), Lupul's worth considerably more.

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01-07-2013, 03:09 AM
  #34
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Buckle up. If we win 7 or 8 in the first 10, Burke stands pat and likely will make the playoffs. If we win 2 or 3 out of the first 10, get ready for a blockbuster. Burke needs playoffs THIS year just to save his job. If we flounder and he does squat, he will be gone.

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01-07-2013, 03:12 AM
  #35
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Burke needs to offer Kessel an extension. I do not want to lose him for nothing considering what we gave up to get him. I do not like Burkes attitude of not worrying about it until its time to offer up a contract. Kessel may decide he wants to go to contender.

He should be our main piece to talk about, then goaltending. We have some depth at D and some decent forwards, but this team is all about Kessel, make no mistake about it.

We have 3 great surprises coming out of the Marlies. We have to sign Ranger for certain. But Ranger, Kostka and Fraser are great surprises for us. Good on ya Eakins.

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01-07-2013, 03:13 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by sudsie View Post
Buckle up. If we win 7 or 8 in the first 10, Burke stands pat and likely will make the playoffs. If we win 2 or 3 out of the first 10, get ready for a blockbuster. Burke needs playoffs THIS year just to save his job. If we flounder and he does squat, he will be gone.
I doubt it. Especially in a short year.

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01-07-2013, 03:16 AM
  #37
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I doubt it. Especially in a short year.
What part do you doubt....the part where we stand pat if we win 7 or 8 games out of the first 10, or the part that if we suck that Burkes makes a major upgrade? Not hard to see he will want to keep his job and needs to impress new ownership.

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01-07-2013, 03:21 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Action Jackson View Post
Do some of you seriously believe BB will let Kessel walk? PK will get fair market value, end of story.

Lupul will be resigned as well, the exact figure will be based on his performance this season, he's an integral part of the team.

Grabovski @ 5.5 is fair, this has already been discussed to death. He's a solid #2C and good luck replacing him through free agency. Regardless, that's not how you build a team sillies.
What's he going to do, pull a gun on him? No one would argue that Burke would gladly let Kessel walk. But if he frankly doesn't want to stay here there is absolutely nothing Burke can do about it. If this team misses the playoffs again Burke will have to offer a whole lot more than market value to keep Kessel from leaving.

These next seasons will be crucial for so many reasons. Certainly Burke has cap space to work with and is in a better spot than many GMs. But, he still has to make good use of it. His free agent signing record hasn't been all that great the past few years. The new CBA might help since the contracts are limited a bit more now, but he still has the problem of this not being a very good team and Toronto being a tough sell to a UFA.

Let's just see how it goes. This good position only matters if it's used properly.

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01-07-2013, 03:27 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Am I the only one who thinks Burke planned this? He knew the CBA was going to be expiring and you get bet your bottom dollar he had a pretty good idea of what the owners were going to want coming out of the CBA. He prepared this team for the backlash of yet another CBA and now instead of being one of those teams that will fail to benefit from the new CBA like last lock-out.. The Leafs are more then likely going to gain from this CBA and Burke looks that much smarter.
Did not read the thread but Burke was working with the league in certain capacities during the negotiations so he is very clued in to what is going on and was one of the main gms pushing for certain aspects in regards to contracting rights. So yeah, it would be a pretty sound bet to state that the dude was clued in when it comes to how the CBA was likely to unfold and planned to put the team in a good position to really thrive coming into the new CBA. He's set us up to really come into our own in the near future and have a lot of flexibility in regards to the exact direction we will take and what assets can be obtained. The likely contents of the new CBA will put us in an even better position to better ourselves through the misery of others (and really in general).

Siegal is very on the money with much of what he's reporting versus most of the other hockey talk I've heard so far. Certain stances he's stating in a rather subtle manner are very significant and very important to take into consideration and it will be very interesting to see how these came into being after ratification is over. They were major aspects the league and many GM's wanted and we'll really have to see what actually ended up being turned into the legislation for the next 8-10 years because they have a significant impact on the Leafs and others (Leafs in a positive manner, many others not so much).

The lockout was generally pretty awful, but there's very likely going to be some serious light at the end of the tunnel for us Leafs fans.

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01-07-2013, 03:28 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by sudsie View Post
What part do you doubt....the part where we stand pat if we win 7 or 8 games out of the first 10, or the part that if we suck that Burkes makes a major upgrade? Not hard to see he will want to keep his job and needs to impress new ownership.
I doubt that new ownership is going to put any sort of pressure on Burke in a ~48 game season. I don't think his job is in jeopardy at all yet.

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01-07-2013, 03:38 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
What's he going to do, pull a gun on him? No one would argue that Burke would gladly let Kessel walk. But if he frankly doesn't want to stay here there is absolutely nothing Burke can do about it. If this team misses the playoffs again Burke will have to offer a whole lot more than market value to keep Kessel from leaving.

These next seasons will be crucial for so many reasons. Certainly Burke has cap space to work with and is in a better spot than many GMs. But, he still has to make good use of it. His free agent signing record hasn't been all that great the past few years. The new CBA might help since the contracts are limited a bit more now, but he still has the problem of this not being a very good team and Toronto being a tough sell to a UFA.

Let's just see how it goes. This good position only matters if it's used properly.
Want to know the biggest reason why Toronto was a tough sell rather than other markets?

Burke wasn't willing to put the long term health of the franchise at risk for the short term benefit of major free agent splashes. Throughout the CBA negotiations and leading up to the CBA negotiations there was some major momentum for potential legislation against major cap circumventing contracts being added into the new CBA. We're not just talking about removal of the ability to do so, but legitimate punishments through restrictions on the contracts that have already been signed. It's why Luongo is likely never going to be a Leaf and why Burke isn't going to look nearly as incompetent if the league got its way in respect to this aspect of contracting rights. Even if they partially got their way it'll be a major hurdle going forwards for the albatross front loaded contracts.

If you are, say, Parise or Suter, would you sign with Toronto (that are sticking to their guns and not potentially taking a major risk long term fully knowing some of the aspects of the new cba that are on the table) or sign with Minny for a sweet retirement 100m contract? Of course we weren't going to land the big fish under those circumstances, but the circumstances have changed. We have loads of cap space and flexibility, we are an attractive and lucrative market for a player, and we are a team that has lots of potential moving forwards in regards to how our team has been managed. If I'm a player it's a no brainer to get a great contract as a top guy on an up and coming team in by far the biggest hockey market in the world. You're looking at some significant side money through sponsorships and the like as well, especially if the Leafs turn it around. Just remember how valuable the team is and how big the hockey market is here.

Most importantly, with the new circumstances we aren't going to be seriously outbid anymore like I'm sure we were in other situations that we can remember recently.

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01-07-2013, 03:40 AM
  #42
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Wow.

That is all I can say about many of the so-called "opinions" in this thread.

Grabovski is NOT going anywhere. He was just signed LAST YEAR. How many times has Burke ever traded a player only a year into a long-term contract, let alone bought out?

Kessel is NOT going anywhere, unless he himself decides that he has no interest in resigning. Lucky for us, there has been NO indication that is the case. Brian Burke is NOT going to trade or let a star walk if there is anything he can do about it.

Lupul is also unlikely to go anywhere, unless Burke is sure he has no interest in re-upping here.

Finally, contrary to the beliefs of some here, dumping our three best forwards WILL NOT make us a better team. Having more cap space to spend on Free Agents while leaving a barren forward core IS NOT a pathway to success. And intentional tanking like the Oilers WILL NOT happen as long as Brian Burke is General Manager (which, in turn, will likely be through next year), let alone the changes in the draft system that may make such a strategy obsolete.

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01-07-2013, 04:19 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Prior to the lockout, Burke supporters claimed that the Kovalchuk-esque cap circumventing contracts would be punished in the new cba.

Leaf fan realists pointed out that it wouldn't make much sense for Bettman to punish and anger his bosses and that there probably wouldn't be any punishments.

I honestly don't know how this turned out.

I imagine that the leaf fan realists were probably right (because they usually are) but don't know for sure. If I am wrong, I will humbly admit it.

Anyone know?
Who says the majority of his "bosses" were in favour for not punishing cap circumventing teams through restricting their contracts? Adding significant restrictions towards cap-circumventing contracts such as Kovalchuk's or Luongo's were on the table and being pushed by the league last anyone reported on them, in more drastic scope than I'm sure anybody had believed would be seen. It will certainly be interesting to see what actually makes its way into the CBA, but the "Leafs realists" would just plain be demonstrably wrong and laughably ridiculous with their claims as they were being negotiated for by the league and were on the table. It's just plain not true if you want to look at reality.

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01-07-2013, 04:33 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Probably. Oh well, maybe Burke can go GM whatever team signed Bozak after he was outright released.

The good news is that whatever GM replaces the obviously about to be fired Burke will have some wiggle room and no real bad contracts to deal with when the Cap dips by nearly 10m. I guess those Burke supporters were right about something after all.
so 70.2 to 64.3 is nearly 10 million?

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01-07-2013, 05:10 AM
  #45
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If we deal Grabo and choose not to resign Kessel and Lupul, and not do anything silly like trading for Luongo and tying up more resources, things get interesting with the UFA market next season.
So we deal grabo, choose not to re-sign kessel and Lupul, all for the chance to wait for a possibly good UFA day. What the **** happens if nobody wants to sign with us? We just gave away three of our best forwards for an unknown POSSIBILITY of a couple guys signing with us? Am I the only one who sees that as the worst idea I have come across on these boards? Imagine us without Kessel Lupul and Grabo. You really should be an event planner.

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01-07-2013, 05:19 AM
  #46
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All I can say is burke was wise to hold on to his ground for signing people for later on. We got some good grounds on other GMs, and I hope burke being burke can use that for his advantage.

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01-07-2013, 05:43 AM
  #47
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I think the two compliance buyoyts evens things up a lot. Not sure the Leafs will be at that much of an advantage to be honest. The biggest factor in getting top notch UFA will still be to have a team that performs on the ice and that can contend for the cup.We all know Seigel is a little bit of a fanboy.

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01-07-2013, 05:53 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
That's what leafs nation has resorted to.
It's pathetic. A whole new low.

Brian Burke has now "succeeded" in the eyes of leaf fans when he simply doesn't "fail".
Not "failing" is the new "success".

"The leafs are only ELEVENTH worst in salary cap going into next season. It's better than being 5th last. Or dead last.
GOOD JOB BURKIE!!!!"

A new low, not just in leaf history, but maybe in human history.
I agree, some on here would be ready to call Brian Burke a genius if he did not have any players signed for 2013-2014 and 64.3 million in cap space.

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01-07-2013, 07:06 AM
  #49
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All I can say is burke was wise to hold on to his ground for signing people for later on. We got some good grounds on other GMs, and I hope burke being burke can use that for his advantage.
Well I think we have a good shot at getting a few good players out of the whole thing.

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One other necessary ingredient to evaluate in regards to the Leafs future cap space is the impending and potentially rich free agent market for 2013. Among the names currently unsigned beyond this year: Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Jarome Iginla, Derek Roy, Alexander Edler, Ryane Clowe, Nathan Horton, Simon Gagne, Stephen Weiss, Jimmy Howard, Douglas Murray and Toronto's own Joffrey Lupul and Clarke MacArthur. If available, many names in that list could interest the Leafs, starting with Getzlaf and Perry

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01-07-2013, 07:12 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
so 70.2 to 64.3 is nearly 10 million?
Always gotta be one eh? Fine, by just under 6m. Better? Does that make the point any less valid?

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