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Siegel: Leafs stand to benefit from new CBA

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01-07-2013, 09:49 AM
  #76
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Ditching players in the minors is History

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Originally Posted by Rockinz View Post
I have said from day 1 that this new CBA will be perfect for the way Burkie does business!

LOVING IT!
Looks like the devil is in the details. One of the much loved tactics of this board was the Leaf's ability to move salary. However according to this CBC report: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...fehr-ends.html that is no longer the case:

"Any player on a one-way contract who plays in the American Hockey League with a salary in excess of the NHL's minimum salary plus $375,000 will have the excess amount charged against his team's salary cap."

So no possibility of moving Komi to the Marlies to take him off the cap. The buyouts will be the only way to get rid of salary cap anchors.

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01-07-2013, 09:50 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
Looks like the devil is in the details. One of the much loved tactics of this board was the Leaf's ability to move salary. However according to this CBC report: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...fehr-ends.html that is no longer the case:

"Any player on a one-way contract who plays in the American Hockey League with a salary in excess of the NHL's minimum salary plus $375,000 will have the excess amount charged against his team's salary cap."

So no possibility of moving Komi to the Marlies to take him off the cap. The buyouts will be the only way to get rid of salary cap anchors.
Komisarek couldn't be moved anyway with his NMC.

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01-07-2013, 09:53 AM
  #78
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**Notes re; my post above.

I gave Kadri and Gunnarsson raises, we could argue whether they are the right $... we don't know the future, or what their performances are, if they end up deserving more or less.

We don't know that Kadri isn't traded in a deal with Vancouver.

I put in Ranger.. could be Kotska, or even Fraser as the 7th D man... We have cheap options. Kotska continues to put up numbers, Reilly makes the team, we don't need Liles, particularly if he doesn't perform like he did pre-concussion.

Then Grabs is a question mark. What if somehow we get a Barkov, MacKinnon, Monahan in the draft? What if Colborne has found his game now, and performs decent in the NHL this year?

Now we have an argument to get rid of Grabs, go with "Getzlaf", Bozak and Colborne... or one of the rookies...

The point is we don't know how this is going to play out.. the numbers are tight, but that doesn't mean they can't work, because clearly they can.

It wouldn't shock me to see the 2014/15 Cap back close to $70mil again. Certainly in the $67-70 range... giving us room.

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01-07-2013, 10:06 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
Looks like the devil is in the details. One of the much loved tactics of this board was the Leaf's ability to move salary. However according to this CBC report: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...fehr-ends.html that is no longer the case:

"Any player on a one-way contract who plays in the American Hockey League with a salary in excess of the NHL's minimum salary plus $375,000 will have the excess amount charged against his team's salary cap."

So no possibility of moving Komi to the Marlies to take him off the cap. The buyouts will be the only way to get rid of salary cap anchors.
Even players like Colton Orr earning $1 mil in the minors, will have $625k count against the Leafs salary cap this year, if he plays for the team or not.

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01-07-2013, 10:07 AM
  #80
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No one would argue that Burke would gladly let Kessel walk.
What?!? Care to extrapolate on that?

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01-07-2013, 10:14 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Even players like Colton Orr earning $1 mil in the minors, will have $625k count against the Leafs salary cap this year, if he plays for the team or not.
So contrary to the original title of this thread, the new CBA has removed one of the key advantages that big market clubs enjoyed - and the Leafs are certainly in that group. On the flip side, given that the Leafs have some cap space to play with, they could be the beneficiaries of a salary dump (AKA Loungo) but the buyout options mitigate any serious benefit (eg. Vancouver could just buy out Luongo instead of getting hosed in a trade) .

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01-07-2013, 10:16 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Finally, why would Lupul settle for anything less than a Grabo contract considering he is a PPG player, and higher on the food chain than Grabo. Will Burke offer 6M to him? And if he does, then how much does Kessel deserve? 7M+ per. There goes Getzlaf, Perry, or whoever the cap crunchers let go for the Leafs who are in a vulcher's position with Burke's calculated gamble of having cap room for the 13-14 season if we have Grabo at 5.5, Lupul at 6M, Dion at 6.5M and Kessel at 7M. No goalie, or additions. Same lottery team we have seen the past 4 years.
You're right on most of this. I have no issues giving Lupul $6M, and Kessel $7M (not sure if that'll get it done). I'm even fine with Phaneuf at $6.5, as he's improved considerably defensively, and more or less maintained his production while facing some tough competition.

What we've yet to see, is how Carlyle will be able to reshape our defensive system. Sure, goaltending (Reimer) was a major issue last season, but not giving up 10 golden scoring chances against each and every game will by itself result in more wins.

We've also gotten rid of a defenseman who performed awful last season in exchange for some much needed size, and net presence up front. That move helped us both offensively and defensively.

If Burke can find us a half-decent goalie not named Luongo, this team could very well be making the playoffs.

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01-07-2013, 10:19 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Even players like Colton Orr earning $1 mil in the minors, will have $625k count against the Leafs salary cap this year, if he plays for the team or not.
I think the way it works is that the exemption = minimum salary + $375K, so the cap hit is only $150K

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01-07-2013, 10:29 AM
  #84
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Bettman's CBAs are always designed for parity focusing on the weakest teams trying to bring them up to the level of the others both with financial assistance and lowered Salary Cap and loser points for OTL.

With a lowering of the Cap some better teams will be forced to use amnesty buyouts and/or release some players, and teams like the Leafs looking for help, can benefit with talent upgrades on the present team like the other teams in their situation with excess players hitting the market.

Teams also being able to eat salary in trades (if that exists in the new CBA) will allow Toronto also to move some players in trade that might otherwise be undesirable, by eating a portion of their contracts. Mike Komisarek to NYI with Toronto retaining $2 mil of his contract, and his actual salary at $3.5 mil with a $4.5 mil cap hit is a perfect fit to obtain a pick or prospect in the deal.

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01-07-2013, 10:43 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Bettman's CBAs are always designed for parity focusing on the weakest teams trying to bring them up to the level of the others both with financial assistance and lowered Salary Cap and loser points for OTL.
If anything, the better teams benefited much more from the loser point. Before that change, both teams received the loser point known as a DRAW. With the introduction of the shootout gimmic to decide the game, the teams with more star players get a chance to get an extra point for a win they didn't earn.

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01-07-2013, 10:43 AM
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I'm not sure I really understand the point of this article.. He's basically saying we'll have cap room to sign one of the top free agents or trade for somebody who's overpaid (lol at this notion). Are we supposed to believe that California guys like Getzlaf/Perry would come here? Also it's not like potentially losing Lupul sucks or anything...

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01-07-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
Looks like the devil is in the details. One of the much loved tactics of this board was the Leaf's ability to move salary. However according to this CBC report: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...fehr-ends.html that is no longer the case:

"Any player on a one-way contract who plays in the American Hockey League with a salary in excess of the NHL's minimum salary plus $375,000 will have the excess amount charged against his team's salary cap."

So no possibility of moving Komi to the Marlies to take him off the cap. The buyouts will be the only way to get rid of salary cap anchors.
Huge distinction here, are we talking about cap or salary?

Is this a loop hole or loosely written article?

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01-07-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
On the flip side, given that the Leafs have some cap space to play with, they could be the beneficiaries of a salary dump (AKA Loungo) but the buyout options mitigate any serious benefit (eg. Vancouver could just buy out Luongo instead of getting hosed in a trade) .
Are you suggesting that Vancouver may be inclined to pay $50 mil to Luongo to go away, rather than trading him for even a draft pick and then being absolved of his salary?

Very few teams in the league will even entertain buyouts. Owners initiated a lockout for a reason - they were losing money. They won't be paying copious amounts of money to players not to play.

Leafs, Philly, Rangers, Montreal, and maybe 2-3 more. Those will be the only teams who will even consider buyouts.

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01-07-2013, 11:03 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
If anything, the better teams benefited much more from the loser point. Before that change, both teams received the loser point known as a DRAW. With the introduction of the shootout gimmic to decide the game, the teams with more star players get a chance to get an extra point for a win they didn't earn.
If the NHL awarded 2 points for a win and 0 points for a loss then each game would separate teams by 2 points guaranteed..

However with loser points being awarded for losses it makes games with only 1 point advantage strong to weak teams and pulls the bottom teams along keeping them in the playoff races longer each season.

The OTL point is all about weak teams and small market teams parity some of which have trouble attracting fans even when successful.. When these teams fall out of playoff contention attendance drops even further in these markets. There is no such thing as ties in Bettman's NHL either any longer, because that and the circus shootout deciding games is directed at fan interest in seeing a winner decided to put more butts in seats, where the points system however is focused on keeping teams bunched together..

Last season Boston NE Div winners recorded 4 OTL loser points while the Leafs recorded 10.. That resulted in +6 extra points Toronto earned keeping them closer to the Bruins in the standings, while LOSING more games. Take away loser points and the Bruins are +6 points advantage rewarded for losses.

Florida won the SE Div with 94 points last year on 18 loser points, while Washington the cream of the SE Div finished with 92 points on on 8 OTL.. It was the +10 extra loser points Florida was awarded the made that difference in only the 2 points separating the teams in the standings, and that is exactly what Bettman wanted to see in small markets occurring as a result. Weaker teams play for tie games after regulation, even have systems that focus on walking away with a point in the game even when they lose them eventually. Washington (42 wins) verses Florida (38 wins) WON 4 more games than the Panthers but finished below them in the standings at the end as a result of Florida LOSING more games last year.. Its all about the losers that brings parity to the NHL by the scoring system..


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01-07-2013, 11:11 AM
  #90
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I think the way it works is that the exemption = minimum salary + $375K, so the cap hit is only $150K
And for this season only.

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01-07-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Huge distinction here, are we talking about cap or salary?

Is this a loop hole or loosely written article?
Good question. I would think it's likely that since the framework is in regards to how the caphit will apply to the team, I think it will be the player's caphit, not actual salary. So Orr would be 100K on the books for this year and then he's a UFA.

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01-07-2013, 11:38 AM
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Are you suggesting that Vancouver may be inclined to pay $50 mil to Luongo to go away, rather than trading him for even a draft pick and then being absolved of his salary?

Very few teams in the league will even entertain buyouts. Owners initiated a lockout for a reason - they were losing money. They won't be paying copious amounts of money to players not to play.

Leafs, Philly, Rangers, Montreal, and maybe 2-3 more. Those will be the only teams who will even consider buyouts.
It seems that some seem to think a buy out is like voiding a contract and do not realize that it actually costs money. Usually a fair amount of money.

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01-07-2013, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Huge distinction here, are we talking about cap or salary?

Is this a loop hole or loosely written article?
My guess is it's a bona fide loophole and an intentional one at that, but we'll find out soon enough. IMO written that way, it makes the backdivers easier to manage, so I think it's likely intentional. However, the fact it leaves a bunch of existing off-cap money as off-cap would be mildly surprising.

Take Luongo (as an obvious example) who after his 6 remaining years of full salary would then hit for roughly 2.5, 0.8, 0.15, and 0.15 in cap hit the last 4 years rather than the actual remaining 5.33x4 in cap if he was sent down. Now, you gotta get through those 6 years without a buyout, so you can send him down, but if you make it, there's a pretty solid payoff.

IMO it's a lame compromise to let the backdive signing GMs largely off the hook for their transgressions, but does include a wrist slap. Paired with the 50% provision it should keep people from trying to write 7 year deals that are actually 3-4 year ones going forward though (I hope anyway).

Of course, it could just be sloppy journalism too, I guess we'll find out.

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01-07-2013, 11:48 AM
  #94
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Am I the only one who thinks Burke planned this? He knew the CBA was going to be expiring and you get bet your bottom dollar he had a pretty good idea of what the owners were going to want coming out of the CBA. He prepared this team for the backlash of yet another CBA and now instead of being one of those teams that will fail to benefit from the new CBA like last lock-out.. The Leafs are more then likely going to gain from this CBA and Burke looks that much smarter.
I think he did based on the short term contracts he gave out. For example at the end of the this upcoming season Bozak, MacArthur, Connolly are all going to be UFA's. Plus players he has aquired via trades like Lupul, Steckel, Lombardi are also going to be UFA's.

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01-07-2013, 11:53 AM
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That's what leafs nation has resorted to.
It's pathetic. A whole new low.

Brian Burke has now "succeeded" in the eyes of leaf fans when he simply doesn't "fail".
Not "failing" is the new "success".

"The leafs are only ELEVENTH worst in salary cap going into next season. It's better than being 5th last. Or dead last.
GOOD JOB BURKIE!!!!"

A new low, not just in leaf history, but maybe in human history.

Exaggerate much?

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01-07-2013, 11:57 AM
  #96
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We still have to address IMO, a good big Center and possibly a Goal Tender and both could be available because of the Cap implications next year.
The Leafs finished 10th in the league in goals scored last year but 29th in goals allowed so a goalie is a far bigger concern than a center.

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01-07-2013, 12:10 PM
  #97
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Are we supposed to believe that California guys like Getzlaf/Perry would come here?


Being born and raised in Regina (Getzlaf) or Peterborough (Perry) makes them California guys?

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01-07-2013, 12:12 PM
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It seems that some seem to think a buy out is like voiding a contract and do not realize that it actually costs money. Usually a fair amount of money.
Yeah but some teams are rich enough not to care. If the owners of the Leafs had to shell out $5 million (just to pick a number) to buy someone out would they really notice that money?

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01-07-2013, 12:19 PM
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I'm not sure I really understand the point of this article.. He's basically saying we'll have cap room to sign one of the top free agents or trade for somebody who's overpaid (lol at this notion). Are we supposed to believe that California guys like Getzlaf/Perry would come here? Also it's not like potentially losing Lupul sucks or anything...
Not sure what you mean by Perry being a California guy. His Dad works for the OPP in Durham Ontario, his family is from Peterborough. and Corey spends time in London Ontario and is an advocate and speaker for Burke's "You can play". Doesnt mean he is a sure fire bet to come to Toronto, but it is not unrealistic whatsoever.

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01-07-2013, 12:20 PM
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The Leafs finished 10th in the league in goals scored last year but 29th in goals allowed so a goalie is a far bigger concern than a center.
Why so many here can't understand this is beyond baffling. I guess throwing more goals at the situation should fix it?

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