HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

With lockout now over, it's time for Gary Bettman to step down

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-07-2013, 09:55 PM
  #51
IME
Registered User
 
IME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Cloud
Country: Canada
Posts: 506
vCash: 216
I think The Instigator by Jonathan Gatehouse should be required reading for anybody siding with/against Bettman. It's a great read and an in-depth look at what Bettman has done during his tenure as Commish.

One of the things you'll glean is that part of the reason Bettman has so much power is that he has had a hand in the majority of ownership changes. Many of the guys on the BoG owe Bettman for being there.

IME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 10:03 PM
  #52
grego
Registered User
 
grego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,293
vCash: 500
Bettman will leave when he decides he want to. He is already pushing around 20 years in office now. And by the time the next CBA is up he is going to be around 30 years as the commish.

If Bettman is wanting to move on or slow down he will step down otherwise they will keep him.

grego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 11:00 PM
  #53
Brodie
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,160
vCash: 500
I have no idea how anyone can trumpet revenue growth as proof of Bettman's awesomeness... please explain how every league's revenues also grew in the same time period, often by a lot more than the NHL's.

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 11:46 PM
  #54
Mork
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,528
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Mork
Kudos to everyone who can see this from an unbiased perspective. I just can't stand the guy and will be happy to see him go.

I'm a little surprised and very pleased at how many columns and editorials I'm reading that are saying it's time for Gary Bettman to go. I've never liked him and never will, and will be glad to see the last of him.

Anyone who thinks he's done a great job is dreaming. If he'd done a great job, there wouldn't have been four work stoppages during his tenure. He's the only person to lead the NHL through one work stoppage, let alone four. That's quite an accomplishment in the abject failure department.

Doing a terrific job in Phoenix too. And Columbus, and Long Island, and every other market that can't make ends meet under the CBA's he's engineered.

The best is yet to come. Wait till the end of this CBA, when the cap goes up to $90-million, and the floor to $74-million, and even more teams can't make it because of the disparity in revenue between the rich and poor teams, and rising floor that will rise even further out of reach. The last two CBA's have done nothing to stabilize the NHL. Maybe the league will own a few more of its own franchises for an extended period of time before the league eventually pulls the plug on this CBA.

Great work, Gary, great work. Time to go home now.

Mork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 02:08 AM
  #55
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,836
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasespace View Post
He's the guy whose job description includes, "To be hated".
In my best Christian Bale gruff voice


BETTMAN You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I can do those things. Because I'm not a hero, not like Fehr. I killed those games. That's what I can be.

LT. JAMES GORDON No, no, you can't! You're *not*!

BETTMAN I'm whatever Fandom needs me to be.

LT. JAMES GORDON A hero. Not the hero we deserved but the hero we needed. Nothing less than a knight. Shining.

LT. JAMES GORDON They'll hate you.

BETTMAN You'll hate me. You'll condemn me. Set the media on me.

BETTMAN Because that's what needs to happen.

me2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 02:13 AM
  #56
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntrovert View Post
This guy cares for the sport and the league.
He sure as hell doesn't care for the players.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 03:37 AM
  #57
The Zetterberg Era
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 17,589
vCash: 515
He will stay until 2017-18 when the league celebrates its 100th year. LeBrun has hinted at this, after that I expect him to step down. It seems very clear that Bill Daly is next in line and I don't find him overly different. These guys get their direction from the Owners. Really if he was forced to resign that would be a really bad sign. That means the Owners are already upset about what they gave up mad enough to dump him. Not a good sign when the same owners get the next guy, that would mean they want to clean up even better in my opinion.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:47 AM
  #58
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 55,621
vCash: 500
http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01...derstands.html
Dallas pundit suggests Bettman retire and be replaced with entertainment-savy commish

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:28 AM
  #59
Gormo
Holupchi
 
Gormo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Not sure how you can say that... the game has never had more exposure...
The NHL has been getting a lot of exposure lately... of the embarrassing and negative variety that is.

I cant imagine how the balance of the professional sports industry could possibly take the NHL seriously anymore after this circus. Bettman is infamous. The lockout king should have resigned a long time ago.


Last edited by Gormo: 01-08-2013 at 08:41 AM.
Gormo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:34 AM
  #60
optimus2861
Registered User
 
optimus2861's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bedford NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mork View Post
Anyone who thinks he's done a great job is dreaming. If he'd done a great job, there wouldn't have been four work stoppages during his tenure.
Three. John Ziegler was still NHL president when the players went on strike in 1992.

optimus2861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 09:25 AM
  #61
intangible
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 834
vCash: 139
I think it'll catch up with Bettman this time, not because of the players, fans, or even owners, but because of sponsors. Three work stoppages under his tutelage, and sponsors were getting rowdy over paying money for advertising that now they're maybe going to get 50-66% effect from. NHL has become the riskiest major pro sports league in which to invest your ad dollars.

intangible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 10:19 AM
  #62
PumpkinBomb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
In my opinion, the game was broken; back-diving contracts, short term cba's etc. To get a 10 year cba and fix a lot of the brokenness of the game was totally worth losing a few games.

The 10 year cba means only a 4% loss in games in the next 10 years. It probably means more off a loss in revenue, perhaps 10% over that time, but i think with all the fixes and gains this will be more than made up for.

If i went to the owners and said "for a 4% -10% investment i can get you a 100% return over the next 10 years", that's a slam dunk.

PumpkinBomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 10:30 AM
  #63
vanwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinBomb View Post
In my opinion, the game was broken; back-diving contracts, short term cba's etc. To get a 10 year cba and fix a lot of the brokenness of the game was totally worth losing a few games.

The 10 year cba means only a 4% loss in games in the next 10 years. It probably means more off a loss in revenue, perhaps 10% over that time, but i think with all the fixes and gains this will be more than made up for.

If i went to the owners and said "for a 4% -10% investment i can get you a 100% return over the next 10 years", that's a slam dunk.
The problem as I see it is that a better Commissioner could have got most of those things a month or two ago. I don't think anyone on here disagrees that we needed changes in the CBA to make it more profitable for the owners. The issue is whether all of this 'hill we will die on' nonsense and 'take it or leave it' ultimatums were worth prolonging the lockout for. Given that the deal ended up looking pretty much like what the players offered on Dec 15, I'd argue the answer is clearly no. I'd also argue that a Commissioner who had the trust of the players could have got a reasonable deal much earlier than that. After three work stoppages I'm really surprised that there is anyone left defending Bettman. I don't think either he or Fehr should be praised for what they accomplished in what should have been a tough but not overly complicated deal to negotiate.


Last edited by vanwest: 01-08-2013 at 10:37 AM.
vanwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 10:35 AM
  #64
tony d
The franchise
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,902
vCash: 500
Bettman's going to stick around I think until 2018 when he'll have 25 years in as commish. He'll step down at that time.

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 10:58 AM
  #65
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
The problem as I see it is that a better Commissioner could have got most of those things a month or two ago. I don't think anyone on here disagrees that we needed changes in the CBA to make it more profitable for the owners. The issue is whether all of this 'hill we will die on' nonsense and 'take it or leave it' ultimatums were worth prolonging the lockout for. Given that the deal ended up looking pretty much like what the players offered on Dec 15, I'd argue the answer is clearly no. I'd also argue that a Commissioner who had the trust of the players could have got a reasonable deal much earlier than that. After three work stoppages I'm really surprised that there is anyone left defending Bettman. I don't think either he or Fehr should be praised for what they accomplished in what should have been a tough but not overly complicated deal to negotiate.
While I agree that a commissioner that had some rapport and credibility with the PA could have potentially gotten a deal done earlier - not sure how the timing of the signing is on him when the PA didn't agree to a linked 50/50 HRR split until the middle/end of December.

I'm typically pro-owners, but I've said that I hope that Bettman steps down. Because of his history with the PA - there's very little chance of a real partnership which I think the PA & NHL needs moving forward.

Beukeboom Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 11:13 AM
  #66
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,857
vCash: 350
There comes a time in every business where the CEO or the person in charge needs to step aside if for no more reason than PR. And for Bettman the time is now.

It doesn't matter if the value of the teams or the amount of revenue under Bettman's rein has increased. The majority of the fans, all the players, and now most likely some of the owners and some of the sponsers just DON'T LIKE THE GUY anymore.

If I was a sponsor being woo'ed by the NHL to come on board, I would hesitate before giving the NHL my money with Bettman at the helm. His track record of lockouts / stoppages is not something that can be ignored.

One of the key reasons the NHL wanted a 10 year CBA IMO was because the NHL knows that they are going to have another fight on their hands the next time the CBA expires just out of player spite if Bettman is still in charge. The player mistrust of Bettman and the owners is huge and this is not our last lockout if he is still around.

cbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 11:16 AM
  #67
PumpkinBomb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
The problem as I see it is that a better Commissioner could have got most of those things a month or two ago. I don't think anyone on here disagrees that we needed changes in the CBA to make it more profitable for the owners. The issue is whether all of this 'hill we will die on' nonsense and 'take it or leave it' ultimatums were worth prolonging the lockout for. Given that the deal ended up looking pretty much like what the players offered on Dec 15, I'd argue the answer is clearly no. I'd also argue that a Commissioner who had the trust of the players could have got a reasonable deal much earlier than that. After three work stoppages I'm really surprised that there is anyone left defending Bettman. I don't think either he or Fehr should be praised for what they accomplished in what should have been a tough but not overly complicated deal to negotiate.
You may be right, however I think it was the PA's mantra to the beginning to hold out as long as possible, while still preserving some form of a season to get the best deal.

It's hard for me to find out how the players won anything vs what they lost in those 34 games, even over 10 years. This is because, no matter what the revenue is 50/50. So, even by getting an extra year on contract negotiations, as a whole, it won't matter the the entirety of the league. Maybe, the pension gains they won will be worth it, I don't know? I guess the players just need to hope that the fixes to the system benefit them through a total revenue growth over a 10 year span. The problem being is that the average player will only play 4 years. Thus a loss of 34 games means a whole lot to them. Maybe that's why the pension mattered so much to them?

PumpkinBomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 11:55 AM
  #68
vanwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinBomb View Post
You may be right, however I think it was the PA's mantra to the beginning to hold out as long as possible, while still preserving some form of a season to get the best deal.
It's hard for me to find out how the players won anything vs what they lost in those 34 games, even over 10 years. This is because, no matter what the revenue is 50/50. So, even by getting an extra year on contract negotiations, as a whole, it won't matter the the entirety of the league. Maybe, the pension gains they won will be worth it, I don't know? I guess the players just need to hope that the fixes to the system benefit them through a total revenue growth over a 10 year span. The problem being is that the average player will only play 4 years. Thus a loss of 34 games means a whole lot to them. Maybe that's why the pension mattered so much to them?
No argument there. The PA is also responsible for this mess and the previous messes. I just hold the owners of the league to a higher standard as I expect them to act like owners and look at the long term health of the league. I totally understand why the CBA needed to be changed for the long term health of the league. But I think a deal that achieved that could have been reached much earlier on if Bettman had used a different approach and been less concerned about 'winning' on each point. I also think he grossly miscalculated by thinking that he could divide the PA and get them to submit to his demands.

vanwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 12:02 PM
  #69
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Bettman is a terrible leader. Everything about Bettman is about overpowering those who disagree with him

A 10th grader could see his Napoleon complex 20 yards away.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 12:25 PM
  #70
Brodie
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,160
vCash: 500
This lockout has hurt the NHL's standing with a lot of corporations, up to and including NBC. And since it's not Don Fehr who has to go out and negotiate with these people, it will end up reflecting on Bettman and Bettman alone.

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 12:31 PM
  #71
MoreOrr
B4
 
MoreOrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mexico
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,102
vCash: 500
I think Bettman has done an alright job in general, though I do think that in these negotiations he allowed Fehr to get under his skin.

That said, I think he'll either step down a couple a Seasons before the next CBA or very soon after the next CBA. Gary will likely be in the NHL therefore for another 6.5 to 10.5 years.

5 more years at least allows him to be part of the NHL for its centenial.


Last edited by MoreOrr: 01-08-2013 at 12:36 PM.
MoreOrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 12:32 PM
  #72
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,239
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
This lockout has hurt the NHL's standing with a lot of corporations, up to and including NBC. And since it's not Don Fehr who has to go out and negotiate with these people, it will end up reflecting on Bettman and Bettman alone.
NBC has struggled with the NHL, well at least NBC sports so all this proves is that NBC needs the NHL. I know that the NHL has lost a lot in this first 3 1/2 months but people should stop acting like they can see the future saying that the NHL has been greatly damaged, i think after this season the NHL will continue to grow as it has these past couple of years and the fans will come crawling back.

um is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 12:53 PM
  #73
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I have no idea how anyone can trumpet revenue growth as proof of Bettman's awesomeness... please explain how every league's revenues also grew in the same time period, often by a lot more than the NHL's.
Not that I disagree with you but do you have the revenue growths of all leagues from '93 to 2012?

Would love to see those.

Pepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 01:16 PM
  #74
saillias
Registered User
 
saillias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,939
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I give him credit for growing revenues and criticism for never being able to negotiate a deal without a work stoppage. Obviously, the PA shares a good part of that blame, but to simply characterize Bettman as having no responsibility or as being a yes man for the owners seems to me to lack any objectivity. Whether or not another commissioner could have done better I think that we can all agree that it's hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job. His style of negotiation like Fehr's is confrontational. It's simply the way Bettman works and he seems to enjoy it. Unfortunately the fans have not been treated well under his tenure.
Bettman a hothead, yes. Goodenow was one as well. Fehr, no. That's precisely why he got under the skin of the owners so much. He would coolly and calmly reject their ultimatums and final offers and wait for them to try again

saillias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 01:23 PM
  #75
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,641
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I'm typically pro-owners, but I've said that I hope that Bettman steps down. Because of his history with the PA - there's very little chance of a real partnership which I think the PA & NHL needs moving forward.
Yet how much of that is on Bettman and how much of that is on the PA? The PA had someone who tried to close the gap, and they outed him in a middle of the night coup. Then hired the most confrontational guy the industry knows/has.

__________________
"Itís not as if Donald Fehr was lying to us, several players said. Rather, itís as if he has been economical with information, these players believe, not sharing facts these players consider to be vital."
Riptide is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:22 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.