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With lockout now over, it's time for Gary Bettman to step down

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01-08-2013, 01:32 PM
  #76
Pepper
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Yet how much of that is on Bettman and how much of that is on the PA? The PA had someone who tried to close the gap, and they outed him in a middle of the night coup. Then hired the most confrontational guy the industry knows/has.
Indeed. Pro-PA posters want Bettman to go because of his history but it's not like PA was looking for peace & happiness with the signing of Fehr.

Maybe PA's executive committee should go as well (atleast those who were behind the brutal 3am Kelly "assasination")?

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01-08-2013, 01:41 PM
  #77
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Yet how much of that is on Bettman and how much of that is on the PA? The PA had someone who tried to close the gap, and they outed him in a middle of the night coup. Then hired the most confrontational guy the industry knows/has.
While I agree that it's not all on Bettman - IMO the league needs to take the first step to try and repair the relationship. Giving Bettman his golden parachute would be the biggest and first step in that regard.

I would also say that the Fehr hiring was because the PA leadership felt like they needed a "war-leader" who would go head-to-head with Bettman. Rightly or wrongly - it's pretty easy to see why they felt that way.

It's not like Bettman was a "good compromiser" who had a reputation for buiding concensus and being a true leader. I'm pro-owner - but I feel like Bettman uses his authority like a club, and the hiring of Fehr was directly related to how the 2005 CBA negotiations went.

A little bit like how the Blues *****-slapped the Flyers in the early 70's, and thus the Broad Street bullies were formed in response.

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01-08-2013, 01:41 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Indeed. Pro-PA posters want Bettman to go because of his history but it's not like PA was looking for peace & happiness with the signing of Fehr.

Maybe PA's executive committee should go as well (atleast those who were behind the brutal 3am Kelly "assasination")?
Is any of that executive still in place? The worst offenders were quickly purged by their respective teammates, if I remember correctly.

For all the complaining and whining about Fehr, his performance has been pretty even and fair through the process. He made the 50% offer (which should have been good enough to get the deal done) two months ago. If he had the salary cap busting agenda that many have claimed, we'd be in the middle of a lawsuit right now, not ratifying a CBA.

All he did was basically hold the line on the additional nonsense that the NHL was trying to force onto the players. Which was what the players hired him to do. His reputation as a big figure in sports labour relations is not only intact, he's actually added to his legacy of doing the best for his constituents. As we've seen in the 18 years of MLB labor peace, when he sees a reasonable deal on the table, he'll take it. It's only when the owners try to screw over the players that he gets his back up.

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01-08-2013, 01:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by IME View Post
I think The Instigator by Jonathan Gatehouse should be required reading for anybody siding with/against Bettman. It's a great read and an in-depth look at what Bettman has done during his tenure as Commish.

One of the things you'll glean is that part of the reason Bettman has so much power is that he has had a hand in the majority of ownership changes. Many of the guys on the BoG owe Bettman for being there.
This is nothing new, he hand picked his BOG so he's not leaving anytime soon. Anyone who really understands the business should know that.

All we can hope is that when Bettman presents the cup this year that the fans pelt him with tomatoes. That might get their attention. That or a fan boycott really happens and 1/3rd of the league is bankrupt in the next 4 years. Both unlikely given the drone like behavior of NHL fans.

One can dream...

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01-08-2013, 01:45 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Yet how much of that is on Bettman and how much of that is on the PA? The PA had someone who tried to close the gap, and they outed him in a middle of the night coup. Then hired the most confrontational guy the industry knows/has.
Yes, but the NHL has also retained for almost 20 years now the most confrontational commissioner the industry knows. Fehr has only been in charge of the PA through this last work stoppage and while he was an advisor the time before he was not in charge. Bettman has not worked well no matter who was in charge. Some of the blame definitely goes to the PA but, IMO, people should have higher expectations as to what a commissioner's role is.

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01-08-2013, 01:53 PM
  #81
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It's also ridiculous to claim that Fehr is the most confrontational guy in pro sports.

If anything, he was decidedly non-confrontational throughout the lockout. No over the top public statements (unlike certain characters on the NHL's side). No threats. He just went about his business.

Which is what his record was for the vast majority of his time with the MLBPA.

Why does the NHL hate him? Because he threatens the status quo of hardline anti-player zealouts that have been running the NHL. Because he turfed these types out of power in MLB. Because when people like this see anyone challenging them, they go nuclear.

We've seen the league go nuclear for three straight CBA expiries. That isn't on Fehr. He just exposes the people who are responsible.

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01-08-2013, 02:10 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Yet how much of that is on Bettman and how much of that is on the PA? The PA had someone who tried to close the gap, and they outed him in a middle of the night coup. Then hired the most confrontational guy the industry knows/has.
The PA hired Fehr as a direct response to Bettman and his antagonistic negotiating style. Fehr was essentially the anti-Bettman.

Replace Bettman with someone less conflict prone and it's much more likely to introduce labour peace down the road.

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01-08-2013, 02:24 PM
  #83
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Maybe when Fehr goes Bettman should consider it but not until then.

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01-08-2013, 02:29 PM
  #84
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The PA hired Fehr as a direct response to Bettman and his antagonistic negotiating style. Fehr was essentially the anti-Bettman.

Replace Bettman with someone less conflict prone and it's much more likely to introduce labour peace down the road.
If I was a player, I definitely would have want Fehr representing me. For years we have all seen what Bettman is like ( it's my ball and if I don't get to play my way, I'm going home ) and what the players needed was someone willing to go into the room and sit across from Bettman and tell him to kiss my ___.

And having said that though, Fehr is temporary. He was brought to serve the specific purpose of being confrontational because that's what is needed to negotiate with Bettman. If the NHL was run by someone less confrontational, maybe the players wouldn't have hired Fehr and we would have played a full season. We will never know.

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01-08-2013, 02:35 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
For all the complaining and whining about Fehr, his performance has been pretty even and fair through the process. He made the 50% offer (which should have been good enough to get the deal done) two months ago. If he had the salary cap busting agenda that many have claimed, we'd be in the middle of a lawsuit right now, not ratifying a CBA.
Yeah it will never happen but a lot of anti-Fehr people should be eating a big helping of crow right about now. Earlier on there was always plenty of talk about how bad Fehr was and that he was out to satisfy his ego and would destroy the game in the process.

Seeing the deal actually reached that turned out to be completely false.

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01-08-2013, 02:48 PM
  #86
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Yeah it will never happen but a lot of anti-Fehr people should be eating a big helping of crow right about now. Earlier on there was always plenty of talk about how bad Fehr was and that he was out to satisfy his ego and would destroy the game in the process.

Seeing the deal actually reached that turned out to be completely false.
And it only took him until December (or was it late Nov - can't remember now) to accept split based on a percentage, instead of de-linked fixed amounts (and we'll completely ignore the poison pills in there). But I guess that's Bettman's fault too...

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01-08-2013, 02:54 PM
  #87
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You may be right, however I think it was the PA's mantra to the beginning to hold out as long as possible, while still preserving some form of a season to get the best deal.

It's hard for me to find out how the players won anything vs what they lost in those 34 games, even over 10 years. This is because, no matter what the revenue is 50/50. So, even by getting an extra year on contract negotiations, as a whole, it won't matter the the entirety of the league. Maybe, the pension gains they won will be worth it, I don't know? I guess the players just need to hope that the fixes to the system benefit them through a total revenue growth over a 10 year span. The problem being is that the average player will only play 4 years. Thus a loss of 34 games means a whole lot to them. Maybe that's why the pension mattered so much to them?
In my opinion we won't see the real deciding factor for another 8-10 years when the next CBA comes up.

The last CBA was essentially a beta version, the league fought to change the nature of the game by getting a salary cap and cost certainty, but there were still bugs that could only be found through actual field testing. So this new CBA is essentially the official V1.0 release. Standards set now will be in place for the next time the CBA has to be renewed.

With a nice simple and fair 50/50 split can we have a more peaceful transition through the next negotiations? Especially if the other leagues hold the line there shouldn't be much to fight over. If that's the case, then the contractual rights the players fought for now will remain in place as the standard for future CBA's and negotiations. The league can pick a fight if they're looking to drop the players share another 7%, there would be no reason to lock the players out in and instigate a fight in an attempt to cut the max contract length by a year or two and other minor things. And it's the same thing the other way, if everything is otherwise peaceful the players would look pretty bad by picking a fight to get these contract rights raised again.

In other words the contractual rights they fought for now could benefit the PA for decades.

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01-08-2013, 03:16 PM
  #88
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Maybe when Fehr goes Bettman should consider it but not until then.
Yeah, we all know that Bettman won't go even then. The best we can hope for is that he is gone by the time the next CBA comes up.

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01-08-2013, 03:29 PM
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Three. John Ziegler was still NHL president when the players went on strike in 1992.
that strike lasted 10 days and didnt result in any games lost. the past 3 stoppoages have all been lockouts- ie the owners have prevented those seasons from starting on time, in order to get big concessions from the players. to lose a season is an unmitigated failure, and to lose half a season so soon after losing a full season is completely unacceptable. bettman imo, should go, his time has come. imo bettman and stern are the worst of the Big 4 commissioners. Selig and goddell have thier issues but the other two are worse..

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01-08-2013, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
And it only took him until December (or was it late Nov - can't remember now) to accept split based on a percentage, instead of de-linked fixed amounts (and we'll completely ignore the poison pills in there). But I guess that's Bettman's fault too...
No, it was early to mid-November. The NHLPA had agreed on 50% well before the round of talks in early December.

So basically, Fehr holds responsibility only for his part in missing a month of the season. That would have translated into less than 10 games.

The rest is on Bettman. What a failure.

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01-08-2013, 03:50 PM
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No, it was early to mid-November. The NHLPA had agreed on 50% well before the round of talks in early December.

So basically, Fehr holds responsibility only for his part in missing a month of the season. That would have translated into less than 10 games.

The rest is on Bettman. What a failure.
lol. Sure. Oh and went and looked it up - Nov 21st.

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01-08-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by NickWIHockey View Post
that strike lasted 10 days and didnt result in any games lost. the past 3 stoppoages have all been lockouts- ie the owners have prevented those seasons from starting on time, in order to get big concessions from the players. to lose a season is an unmitigated failure, and to lose half a season so soon after losing a full season is completely unacceptable. bettman imo, should go, his time has come. imo bettman and stern are the worst of the Big 4 commissioners. Selig and goddell have thier issues but the other two are worse..
I'd take bettman over the other commissioners in a heartbeat. At least Bettman doesn't make rash, illogical decisions impacting Hockey. On the other hand, this year has seen the other three negatively impact the game. Stern with his illogical fines against the Spurs for benching veteren players at the tail end of a long road trip. Goodell with his stubbornness concerning the replacement refs (and the cash-for-crutches mishandling. Selig with his failure to protect the city of Miami from an unscrupulous owner.

Yes, Bettman oversaw a lockout. But it's what the owners wanted. He was just very good at getting what the owners wanted.

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01-08-2013, 04:35 PM
  #93
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Maybe PA's executive committee should go as well (atleast those who were behind the brutal 3am Kelly "assasination")?
Hyperbole much?

Jim Kelly is the Leonard Peltier of the BOH

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01-08-2013, 04:37 PM
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Why do people go tit-for-tat on everything.

Fehr has nothing to do with bettman's ability to be a good commissioner. You want Fehr gone? Make a new thread. Keep it out of this discussion.

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01-08-2013, 05:23 PM
  #95
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lol. Sure. Oh and went and looked it up - Nov 21st.
So mid-November. That's the day the lockout should have ended.

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01-08-2013, 05:39 PM
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So mid-November. That's the day the lockout should have ended.
LOL Seriously? Yes I was disappointed that the NHL didn't even attempt to use that offer as a place to negotiate from. But on the same hand, what took Fehr that long to even put that sort of linked offer forward? Or even a phased in split (55%, 53, 51, 50, etc)?

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01-08-2013, 06:07 PM
  #97
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I actually gained respect for Bettman through these negotiations. The players have actually had it pretty good despite what they think. And it's been catching up to them which seems to be a source of resentment thus the Fehr hiring. Revenue has increased. There have been some nice TV packages. The owners, overall, seem content. At some point I see Bettman stepping down but not for a few years.

Didn't get much out of the article that already hasn't been said. Bettman seems to relish his role as a lightning rod. I'm not sure how many of those types are out there and can grow your business too.

Is the guy flawless.....well none of us are. IDK there is a sense of entitlement that's developed on the union side. I'm all for unions when it comes to fighting for things like working conditions and a fair pay scale relative to other industry but I then have a problem with them when I sense entitlement is intervening.

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01-08-2013, 06:52 PM
  #98
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Why do people go tit-for-tat on everything.

Fehr has nothing to do with bettman's ability to be a good commissioner. You want Fehr gone? Make a new thread. Keep it out of this discussion.


It's relevant when people use this latest lockout as a big reason for Bettman needing to go.

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01-08-2013, 07:00 PM
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I actually gained respect for Bettman through these negotiations. The players have actually had it pretty good despite what they think. And it's been catching up to them which seems to be a source of resentment thus the Fehr hiring. Revenue has increased. There have been some nice TV packages. The owners, overall, seem content. At some point I see Bettman stepping down but not for a few years.

Didn't get much out of the article that already hasn't been said. Bettman seems to relish his role as a lightning rod. I'm not sure how many of those types are out there and can grow your business too.

Is the guy flawless.....well none of us are. IDK there is a sense of entitlement that's developed on the union side. I'm all for unions when it comes to fighting for things like working conditions and a fair pay scale relative to other industry but I then have a problem with them when I sense entitlement is intervening.
I'm sorry, I can't even comprehend how this even resembles anything other than an agenda against the players (aside from your user title, which by definition is incorrect).

You gained respect for a guy who didn't even respect the collective bargaining process? Continuously tried to circumvent the union head? Doing so in attempts to crush them (as it turned out, Bettman's antics further unified them)? Having owners threaten the players by walking away if Fehr even so much as entered the room? Never taking any of the PA's proposals for serious discussion? Crying poor because because a handful of teams don't make money in spite of a CBA Bettman shoved down their throats in 2005? Got his side backed into a corner - when he's the one who decides whether or not the season gets cancelled?

What?

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01-08-2013, 07:24 PM
  #100
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Agree with the sentiment and I expect Bettman will be around for awhile though its amusing to see all the Bettman haters coming out so fast and demanding his resignation.The Hockey News even has their own candidate evidently.
He can stay for all I care.

However, I'd like to see someone else with the honour of presenting the Stanley Cup and the welcome duties at the draft. His mug shot is in every picture of first round drafts and Stanley Cup presentations.

Going forward maybe someone less disliked should have those honours.

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