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Is Europa becoming pointless????

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Old
04-10-2014, 12:27 PM
  #1
S E P H
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Is Europa becoming pointless????

I was listening to some Arsenal podcasts the other day and some of the pessimistic's were saying they do not want Arsenal to finish 4th or 5th because Europa is a pointless tournament playing in the likes of middle of nowhere Russia, unknown cities in Kazakhstan, Georgia, and Northern Finland with 22 hour sunlight (all generalizing). It also increases the chance of injury/fatigue/other potential bad things in terms of winning the League's title and domestic cups. It was a really interesting point brought up because a team like Poznan probably love's playing the Europa league while a team like Arsenal gets no benefits out of it.

Is Europa becoming (or has it been) pointless since it's creation?

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04-10-2014, 12:29 PM
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It became pointless when they started letting non-champions into the Champions League (and since the Champions League became a thing). Given the increasingly absurd differences in prize money/revenues, it's only going to get worse. For big clubs, at least. I imagine the majority of teams would still attach significance to it but for teams used/accustomed to/budgeted for the Champions League, they're just going to care less and less.

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04-10-2014, 12:30 PM
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Evilo
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The CL has become ridiculous and means that the EL is a subpar tournament where most big teams start their backups. Not until the knockout stage do they take it seriously.

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04-10-2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
The CL has become ridiculous and means that the EL is a subpar tournament where most big teams start their backups. Not until the knockout stage do they take it seriously.
The problem I see with the Champions League is there are way too many spots given out. What is point of giving 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place teams a spot to a "League of Champions", sounds like UEFA was reading about Greek mythology. I love that I get to see Arsenal travel to Italy, Germany, and France to battle against tough teams (even if there is no point for Arsenal to be in it). Just too many spots, I think the team who wins the league title deserves to go to Champion's League throughout Europe. Of course there should be some elimination games between winners of leagues in Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Poland, Finland, and other lower tier leagues before heading to the group stage.

Plus I would like to see a salary cup in terms of amount you are able to dress for a game. Let's say that PSG has a team that is worth 300 million dollars of total contracts (First team and Reserves), but for CL games they're able to dress only 120 million of that.


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04-10-2014, 12:53 PM
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Increase the prize money in Europa, and it suddenly becomes relevant again

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04-10-2014, 01:06 PM
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Giving the winner a spot in the Champions League will help but too many teams get into the Champions League. Distribute the money better between the two.

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04-10-2014, 01:42 PM
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tobo
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You're telling me there was a time the EL was worth something? Don't you remember the old UEFA Cup? You know, that tournament that was being replaced by the EL because teams just didn't gave a damn...

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04-10-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobo View Post
You're telling me there was a time the EL was worth something? Don't you remember the old UEFA Cup? You know, that tournament that was being replaced by the EL because teams just didn't gave a damn...
That's not true. Many thought the UEFA Cup was the hardest one to win. Every team would give their all to win it.

No, as been said, what has ruined the fun is allowing 3-4 teams from the same league, thus giving the EL poorer teams.

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04-10-2014, 01:57 PM
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No no, I'm not talking about the first version of this tournament. I'm well aware that it was a very prestigious tournament back in the days. I'm talking about the previous format that was introduced in the early 00s. That was a very dull tournament and after 5 -6 seasons, UEFA decided to change the format once more in order to make the tournament more attractive. I see things have panned out as expected.

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04-10-2014, 01:58 PM
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If the Champions league only featured actual champions, there would be maybe 7 or 8 good teams, but 4 of those would be a notch below the top 4 in most years. I like the CL the way it is

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04-10-2014, 03:25 PM
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Well starting next season, the Europa League winner gets a Champions League spot (albeit a playoff position, not automatically in the groups), so UEFA solved that a bit.

Prize money is very low, just making the Champions League you still get 5-6x more than winning the Europa League.

They should never allow CL dropouts into the Europa League but they probably do it to keep the CL Group Stage somewhat interesting by the 5th and 6th rounds.

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04-10-2014, 10:16 PM
  #12
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In England, the Europa league is and will always be a complete waste of everything. Even with a decent amount of money from appearance fees, it's not going to be worth dealing with.

To make a real run at Europa you have to endure a ****ton of travel to the wrong end of Europe midweek to play more games than anyone else in the league. To do this well you need to sign (and pay) more good players then you'd normally have for just a domestic season. This can't happen because you'll never consistently be in Europe to justify having all these extra players. The results are relegation battles (see Newcastle the other year).

England's problem is that we've got too many good teams. ManU, ManC, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool are all spending big with the goal of hitting the Champion's League qualifying spots. Everton will be up there too and you'll then have teams like us (Newcastle) poking in every now and then as well. This makes it impossible to consistently get the Europa spot from finishing well in the League so no team would ever be able to budget around having the money could bring in.

The other to spots go to the winners of the two Cups (FA and League), so you can never rely on getting one of those because of Brighton & Hove Albion, twice, Stevenage, Cheltenham Town variance...


It's basically not practical for any English team to budget for good runs in the Europa league when they're not already gunning for the Champion's League. And in those cases they're too focused on the league to care about Europa as Champion's League qualification is far more important.



Having said that, I have enjoyed Newcastle's runs in it over the years, would really like them to move the cup spots to the 5th-7th places in the league so we might have a change at getting them again 'cos trips to Israel and Norway are fun.

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04-10-2014, 10:28 PM
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The winning team getting a spot in the following seasons Champions League is a great start.

In a perfect world the Champions League should only be for (lets use England as an example) for the league winners and the FA cup winners.

The Europa league should be used for the League Cup winners and 2nd place finishers in the league.

This makes the FA Cup mean something, makes the Europa come mean something and makes winning the title all that more important.

That will never happen though, the top 4-6 clubs in England have so much $$$$ to lose if the 4 spots are taken away.

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04-11-2014, 12:50 AM
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Pointless discussion.

yes, the CL was better when it was really the league of the champions and only the champions.

yes, the UEFA cup was better and more competive from the start too.

it also would help when the EL takes place in, you know, Europe. I mean take a look at the card. Kazakhstan? Israel? eastern Russia? really?!
but thats just another pointless discussion.

But at the end its s money thing. you can't stop money things.

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04-11-2014, 01:02 AM
  #15
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It's very interesting in germany as you have smaller clubs like Mainz, Freiburg and Augsburg who are clearly better off avoiding it. They don't have the depth and can't afford to add that depth, so would be much better off just dealing with the league and the cup and focusing their money on bolstering themselves for that.

For some other teams though the EL would be great. For gladbach it was a wonderful way for the european stage to be reintroduced to their amazing fans after many years outside of europe. It would also be big for Wolfsburg as they try to build themselves into a giant that finally takes advantage of their financial might properly.

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04-11-2014, 06:09 AM
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I'd suggest that the Europa League has a place in the modern game. I'd argue that its greatest problem is that UEFA's obsession with making the competition more of a money making exercise has damaged its greatest assets-the adventure of welcoming foreign clubs to your own back yard, and the fact that the tournament didn't used to overstay its welcome by dragging on too long.

In other words, it should be more a competition for the fans than the accountants, with fewer games, no stupid group stage, and no clubs parachuted in from the Champions League group stage to make you feel as if everything that took place before Christmas was irrelevant.

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04-11-2014, 06:48 AM
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Bakayoko Ono
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Sure, if you look at it purely from the perspective of big clubs, but you have to understand that clubs like Arsenal are just the tip of the iceberg that is the European club football. For smaller clubs and smaller leagues, Europa League is a very meaningful competition and European games important events/revenue stream.

Now this might surprise many of you, but there's football outside the top 4 leagues, folks.


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04-11-2014, 07:51 AM
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Don't let the CL teams in. When a club is knocked out of the CL, the revenue stream should stop. This should increase the revenue of the EL teams, thus strengthening competition across all the leagues.

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04-11-2014, 01:44 PM
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les Habs
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I actually like the competition (not so much from a format standpoint, but I'm glad a tournament like this exists) and I'd be furious if my club didn't take it seriously.

I think the parachuting of CL teams into the EL is totally unfair, but I think it's interesting. I also like seeing some of them getting clobbered too, like when Athletic Club took it to Man Utd a few years back.

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04-11-2014, 08:49 PM
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I like the tournament and its great for the fans of clubs that dont spend 50+ million euros per season. And its not like the clubs from the biggest leagues dont take the competition seriously. I watched Tottenham twice last season and they played with full [available] squad against Maribor both times. And most teams from the top leagues always give their best just so they save the season (or make it) by qualifying into Europe.

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04-12-2014, 08:19 AM
  #21
TheStinger
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If clubs looked at it the same way Atletico Madrid did, as a way to get themselves into a position to challenge in the Champions League (and look how that has turned out), then maybe teams will take it a bit more serious and see that it is more of a benefit than a hinderance in most cases.

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04-12-2014, 03:24 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStinger View Post
If clubs looked at it the same way Atletico Madrid did, as a way to get themselves into a position to challenge in the Champions League (and look how that has turned out), then maybe teams will take it a bit more serious and see that it is more of a benefit than a hinderance in most cases.
But it's easier to do something like that in Spain, and impossible in England. In Spain, sports 5th, 6th, and 7th in the league go into Europa. You can consistently hit them as you don't have as many big clubs fighting for them in a given year.

Unlike England where only the 5th place gets it (+2 Cup slots), and you have 6 teams fighting for the 4 Champion's League sports already so they overflow into it. You flat out can't try and win the Europa spot without having a Champion's League budget over here.

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04-13-2014, 01:41 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobo View Post
You're telling me there was a time the EL was worth something? Don't you remember the old UEFA Cup? You know, that tournament that was being replaced by the EL because teams just didn't gave a damn...
UEFA Cup was a thing. I still remember the year galatasaray won over Arsenal (in 2000?), it was amazing.

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