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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 7)

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01-29-2013, 04:46 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
Windsor is a bandwagon city. When the team is doing well, you can't find a ticket. When the team is struggling, people act like the sky is falling, or "I've got stuff to do that night", etc. It's sad to see, really.
Yes take a shot at people who have something else better to do. I can go to a Red Wings game and get 9 dollar tickets. I can't do that for a Spits game. The reason people don't go is because they have out priced their audience. If you made tickets for the Peteborough game $15 across the board I bet you get 6000. I am surprised more teams don't start going that route with premium pricing games and regular ticket prices or lower prices for poor teams. It's funny you call them bandwagon fans but you tell me how you sell this team to a casual fan and then tell them it cost them $20 or a single ticket with services charges online of $31.50.

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01-29-2013, 04:57 PM
  #702
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According to the statsheet - http://media.ontariohockeyleague.com...?game_id=18817, Clark got a misconduct-abuse of official (39.4)
According to 2days windsor star, clarks penalty was a mistake and only given a 10 min misconduct. Sanvido and Verbeek will be gone for 2 games each it looks like and Brown will be called up from Lasalle, on a side note with Saginaw playing home and home against us, games against soo, petes, sarnia, Barrie, Plymouth, Oshawa Kitchener, OwenSound and London, i can see Saginaw falling in standings going into March. Any1 agree????

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01-29-2013, 05:09 PM
  #703
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According to 2days windsor star, clarks penalty was a mistake and only given a 10 min misconduct. Sanvido and Verbeek will be gone for 2 games each it looks like and Brown will be called up from Lasalle, on a side note with Saginaw playing home and home against us, games against soo, petes, sarnia, Barrie, Plymouth, Oshawa Kitchener, OwenSound and London, i can see Saginaw falling in standings going into March. Any1 agree????
For being the second youngest team in the league Saginaw I think has been taken lightly by a lot of teams. They are hot right now and have beat London, Plymouth, Owen Sound, ect. The answer should be will they be able to continue on the hot streak?

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01-29-2013, 05:34 PM
  #704
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Yes take a shot at people who have something else better to do. I can go to a Red Wings game and get 9 dollar tickets. I can't do that for a Spits game. The reason people don't go is because they have out priced their audience. If you made tickets for the Peteborough game $15 across the board I bet you get 6000. I am surprised more teams don't start going that route with premium pricing games and regular ticket prices or lower prices for poor teams. It's funny you call them bandwagon fans but you tell me how you sell this team to a casual fan and then tell them it cost them $20 or a single ticket with services charges online of $31.50.
You don't believe Windsor is bandwagon? Look at the attendance between a winning season and a losing season. I'd imagine it's a good 500 person difference.

I will also take shots at people who go to games when they're winning, but "have other stuff to do" when they're losing. If that's not a "bandwagon" fan, what is it?

The only reason you can hit a Wings game now for $9 is because they're doing anything they can to win back the fans. Even then, the prices skyrocket after those tickets are sold.

Regarding selling this team - first, I put the Spitfires on media ads. They're all over the place with visuals on the streets, but radio and TV might be a big plus. I've heard more Plymouth Whaler ads on the radio this season (through Detroit stations) than I have Spitfires. They're doing great with the ticket packages they're offering, but those are only visible online. I'd also remove the $5 charge at Lear as fans don't want to pay money, winning or lose, for parking that far away.

Ticket prices, as much as this mildly irritates me, are about average with the league. Some teams are higher, some are lower, but it's not as if the Spits are way off on this one.

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01-29-2013, 06:53 PM
  #705
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My biggest complaint the last 2 years is there doesn't seem to be a clear plan, if there is a clear plan I thought it was put together haphazardly and rushed. Put it this way if they don't host the Memorial Cup the worst thing Windsor could is try and make a run next year. For the long term health of the organization and viability of the franchise they should sell if they don't get the Memorial Cup. Picture the Spitfires in 14/15 if they go for it. Rychel, Vail, Johnson, Sieloff, Koekkoek, Marchese, Giftopolous, Ebert would all be gone along with whoever you have as OA's that year and any additional 19 year olds you pick up. Heck you may even lose Ho-Sang to the NHL.

Your core for 14/15 would be Verbeek, Bateman, Murphy, Sanvido, DeKort and that is under the assumption none of those guys are moved to make a run next year. That stands up to what 06/07 looked like even worse probably.

The highlighted part might be the single dumbest line I have ever read on this forum; seriously, the team is 3 years removed from a 2nd Memorial Cup and 2 years from a conference final, and you would prefer that they sell the team.
Maybe you're having a problem determining what their plan is, but to me its pretty clear, they want to host and win a Memorial Cup. How successful their plan is to date is debatable, but not the goal itself.
It's funny how quickly people are willing to throw Rychel under the bus for his drafting or trading, as if they would be so much better at it given all the unknowns. You are projecting how players at 15 years of age will develop, it is not an accurate science.

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01-29-2013, 07:24 PM
  #706
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The highlighted part might be the single dumbest line I have ever read on this forum; seriously, the team is 3 years removed from a 2nd Memorial Cup and 2 years from a conference final, and you would prefer that they sell the team.
Maybe you're having a problem determining what their plan is, but to me its pretty clear, they want to host and win a Memorial Cup. How successful their plan is to date is debatable, but not the goal itself.
It's funny how quickly people are willing to throw Rychel under the bus for his drafting or trading, as if they would be so much better at it given all the unknowns. You are projecting how players at 15 years of age will develop, it is not an accurate science.
Don't think he meant sell the team as in literally sell the team... he meant sell as in trading players of value.

I agree with Rayzor is that if they aren't awarded the tournament, that trading Vail, Rychel, Seiloff would be the best course of action and aim for another year to contend.

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01-29-2013, 07:26 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Raisy View Post
The highlighted part might be the single dumbest line I have ever read on this forum; seriously, the team is 3 years removed from a 2nd Memorial Cup and 2 years from a conference final, and you would prefer that they sell the team.
Maybe you're having a problem determining what their plan is, but to me its pretty clear, they want to host and win a Memorial Cup. How successful their plan is to date is debatable, but not the goal itself.
It's funny how quickly people are willing to throw Rychel under the bus for his drafting or trading, as if they would be so much better at it given all the unknowns. You are projecting how players at 15 years of age will develop, it is not an accurate science.
Yes they should sell players off if they don't get the Memorial Cup I think you got confused with selling the team and players.

Of course it's not an accurate science but some organizations find a way to consistently put out good on ice products so let's not act like it's impossible to consistently be good. I will use an example in May 2011 a lot of people not just myself were skeptical of the Spits spending a 2nd round pick on Hunter Smith. These people aren't being paid by an organization but if those people were questioning the pick how much better are those scouts then?

Here's the issue I will admit I was wrong on Rychel at the deadline if they make the playoffs but there are some here that won't admit fault in Rychel if the final game of the year is played on March 17th. There will be people saying well Koekkoek got hurt, if they had Khokhlachev all year they would have made the playoffs. Somehow it's never Rychel's fault even last year an 8th seed was celebrated as some accomplishment. Rychel can never lose especially with expectations so low now. Can you imagine what fans in London would be doing if they were an 8th seed and missed the playoffs the next year?

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01-29-2013, 08:33 PM
  #708
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Yes they should sell players off if they don't get the Memorial Cup I think you got confused with selling the team and players.

Of course it's not an accurate science but some organizations find a way to consistently put out good on ice products so let's not act like it's impossible to consistently be good. I will use an example in May 2011 a lot of people not just myself were skeptical of the Spits spending a 2nd round pick on Hunter Smith. These people aren't being paid by an organization but if those people were questioning the pick how much better are those scouts then?

Here's the issue I will admit I was wrong on Rychel at the deadline if they make the playoffs but there are some here that won't admit fault in Rychel if the final game of the year is played on March 17th. There will be people saying well Koekkoek got hurt, if they had Khokhlachev all year they would have made the playoffs. Somehow it's never Rychel's fault even last year an 8th seed was celebrated as some accomplishment. Rychel can never lose especially with expectations so low now. Can you imagine what fans in London would be doing if they were an 8th seed and missed the playoffs the next year?
My bad, I honestly thought you wanted the team sold. I agree, if they don't get the Cup they should sell off assets.
I agree with on the Hunter Smith pick, but look at the rest of that draft; Maletta and Bateman were both concesus first round picks and Dekort was rated in the second round. I just have a problem blaming the scouting or the GM when these players were taken where they were supposed to be taken, it's not like any of them were big reaches. Same with the year before, Ebert was a top 3 pick in that draft and thought to be a major coup, Clarke was rated in the 2nd where he was taken, Vail was a fourth rounder who has developed nicely and Rychel has already scored 40 goals. If I have a problem with any of the picks, it is that they have a similar difficiency, they lack creativity, which in my opinion has been a big problem for them this year and is why I think getting Koko back was so big for them.

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01-29-2013, 09:00 PM
  #709
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Somehow it's never Rychel's fault even last year an 8th seed was celebrated as some accomplishment.
A year after winning two Cups and a third-straight Western Final, they were expecting to fully rebuild. I'd say making the playoffs in that situation is an accomplishment.

As for as Rychel failing, or whatnot...you're not going to win with every player. Bateman and Ebert were considered very high prospects with Ryan Ellis-type potential. Now that expectations have lowered, they're performing. Don't forget, they're both very young. A guy like Michael Clarke was thought to be an Adam Henrique-type, but he turned out to be more of a grinder than a scorer. Stuff happens.

I know, I know..."keep drinking the Rychel kool-aid" (I can picture Rayzor reading this and thinking that). To put all the blame on him, though, isn't fair. This isn't one person's fault. Last I looked, the guys on the ice have a slight contribution to how we're performing in the standings.

BTW, speaking of Koko, one thing I didn't mention before (and frankly forgot about until just now).......IF the team had traded him at the deadline, you'd have seen a serious, serious change amongst the players. A domino effect. It sounded like it was keep Koko or flush the entire season, and possibly next season, down the drain. I'm not sure fans would have liked that, either.

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01-29-2013, 10:37 PM
  #710
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A year after winning two Cups and a third-straight Western Final, they were expecting to fully rebuild. I'd say making the playoffs in that situation is an accomplishment.

As for as Rychel failing, or whatnot...you're not going to win with every player. Bateman and Ebert were considered very high prospects with Ryan Ellis-type potential. Now that expectations have lowered, they're performing. Don't forget, they're both very young. A guy like Michael Clarke was thought to be an Adam Henrique-type, but he turned out to be more of a grinder than a scorer. Stuff happens.

I know, I know..."keep drinking the Rychel kool-aid" (I can picture Rayzor reading this and thinking that). To put all the blame on him, though, isn't fair. This isn't one person's fault. Last I looked, the guys on the ice have a slight contribution to how we're performing in the standings.

BTW, speaking of Koko, one thing I didn't mention before (and frankly forgot about until just now).......IF the team had traded him at the deadline, you'd have seen a serious, serious change amongst the players. A domino effect. It sounded like it was keep Koko or flush the entire season, and possibly next season, down the drain. I'm not sure fans would have liked that, either.
That's the problem why was Clarke thought to be a Henrique type? Bateman with Ryan Ellis potential? When is the organization going to allow players to develop on their own merits and let them carve out their own niche, without having to be compared with a former great player?

This Koko stuff is garbage so you're telling me if they traded him the players would have tanked this season and next? That tells me more about the type of players Rychel brought in than anything else. Whether Koko returned or not should have zero bearing on the effort the players put forth the rest of the year unless these guys are truly sacred cows and can play like garbage and nothing is done.

As of this moment you take Aleardi and Khokhlachev off this team and look at the roster next year that roster is weaker than the incoming lineup for 10/11 and Rychel pulled the plug moving Kuhnhackl, Campbell, Robertson, Duininck. One can only hope he pulls the plug on a lesser talented team next year.

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01-29-2013, 11:07 PM
  #711
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That's the problem why was Clarke thought to be a Henrique type? Bateman with Ryan Ellis potential? When is the organization going to allow players to develop on their own merits and let them carve out their own niche, without having to be compared with a former great player?
That's what happens when you bring in new talent after winning two Cups. You're going to get comparisons. You've never compared a young NHLer to an established one? It's done on TV all the time. "I think so-and-so reminds me a bit of (insert NHLer here)."

Clarke was supposed to be a two-way guy, thus the comparison to Henrique. Bateman was considered to be a top-level young d-man with offensive potential. Thus, Ellis.

Sure, carving out their own niche is all well and good, but when players are brought in this soon after two titles, you compare for a couple of reasons:

1. It brings the fans in... "I've heard this kid in the next Taylor Hall!" (ahem, Ho-Sang) You hear about a kid who could be a stud, you go see that player.

2. Confidence for the kid... "Yeah, I've been compared to Ryan Ellis. It's an honour, given what he did, but I just have to play my game and hope for the best."

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This Koko stuff is garbage so you're telling me if they traded him the players would have tanked this season and next?
You completely mis-interpreted what I said. IF Koko had been dealt, instead of going for a run, they'd have gone full-out fire-sale, thus probably lower in the standings due to a true rebuild. Nothing to do with effort. Any decisions on Koko played a part in the rest of the stuff. I have this on good authority.

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01-30-2013, 07:23 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Yes they should sell players off if they don't get the Memorial Cup I think you got confused with selling the team and players.

Of course it's not an accurate science but some organizations find a way to consistently put out good on ice products so let's not act like it's impossible to consistently be good. I will use an example in May 2011 a lot of people not just myself were skeptical of the Spits spending a 2nd round pick on Hunter Smith. These people aren't being paid by an organization but if those people were questioning the pick how much better are those scouts then?

Here's the issue I will admit I was wrong on Rychel at the deadline if they make the playoffs but there are some here that won't admit fault in Rychel if the final game of the year is played on March 17th. There will be people saying well Koekkoek got hurt, if they had Khokhlachev all year they would have made the playoffs. Somehow it's never Rychel's fault even last year an 8th seed was celebrated as some accomplishment. Rychel can never lose especially with expectations so low now. Can you imagine what fans in London would be doing if they were an 8th seed and missed the playoffs the next year?
I must say I agree with your points, and your response to my thoughts you posted in #688 is a decent strategy with a solid foundation. I guess it comes down to the management now to see if they can go all in and lure the cup to Windsor next year. I think the first selling feature is 'hey, look at what I did at the deadline'. Those additions will be solid next year. Next selling feature is 'good turnaround story' for a franchise freshly removed from league sanctions showed it can bounce back.
Third selling feature would be the rink. Before the first shovel hit the ground, the money etc was all with this vision of brining the memorial cup to town. (although I like the rink, I think the halls are too crowded at intermission to grab a beer but what can you do).
My personal belief is that you need to hope that the committee thinks that it is too soon to give it back to London, if thats the case then Windsor could get it....if not, then based on roster quality and ability to make money for the CHL it will go to London. I don't care, as long as one of them gets it cuz I am getting tickets for sure!

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01-30-2013, 09:17 AM
  #713
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Going into next season, I think the three young players that Windsor will build around are (bit of a no-brainer, but nevertheless, a perspective from an outside observer): Rychel, Ho Sang, and Murphy (I've been impressed with this d-man's skill level). What about this Verbeek kid? He's also looked good from the limited amout of games that I've seen him play. Can he turn into a first or second line player on a contending team? It will be a huge bonus if the U.S. prospects show up as someone else mentioned.

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01-30-2013, 09:26 AM
  #714
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Going into next season, I think the three young players that Windsor will build around are (bit of a no-brainer, but nevertheless, a perspective from an outside observer): Rychel, Ho Sang, and Murphy (I've been impressed with this d-man's skill level). What about this Verbeek kid? He's also looked good from the limited amout of games that I've seen him play. Can he turn into a first or second line player on a contending team? It will be a huge bonus if the U.S. prospects show up as someone else mentioned.
I too am impressed with Verbeek,whether that translates to top 6 forward status,not sure yet,he does have top end speed,a pro shot, and some snarl,not sure about his on ice intelligence
You are correct if US based talent such as Schmaltz and/or Allen show up,it would definitely impact what happens going forward

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01-30-2013, 10:15 AM
  #715
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That's what happens when you bring in new talent after winning two Cups. You're going to get comparisons. You've never compared a young NHLer to an established one? It's done on TV all the time. "I think so-and-so reminds me a bit of (insert NHLer here)."

Clarke was supposed to be a two-way guy, thus the comparison to Henrique. Bateman was considered to be a top-level young d-man with offensive potential. Thus, Ellis.

Sure, carving out their own niche is all well and good, but when players are brought in this soon after two titles, you compare for a couple of reasons:

1. It brings the fans in... "I've heard this kid in the next Taylor Hall!" (ahem, Ho-Sang) You hear about a kid who could be a stud, you go see that player.

2. Confidence for the kid... "Yeah, I've been compared to Ryan Ellis. It's an honour, given what he did, but I just have to play my game and hope for the best."



You completely mis-interpreted what I said. IF Koko had been dealt, instead of going for a run, they'd have gone full-out fire-sale, thus probably lower in the standings due to a true rebuild. Nothing to do with effort. Any decisions on Koko played a part in the rest of the stuff. I have this on good authority.
I try and not make comparisons as I am not a scout and paid to make these decisions or come out with scouting reports. I will say it's silly to peg someone as the next ____ because as I said let that player be his own person and not have to live up to some expectations. When guys like Nemisz, Henrique, Cundari, Ellis etc.. all came in there were no expectations for them to be the next ____ so players like Clarke, Bateman etc.. shouldn't have to go through that either.

If you're trying to bring fans in with comments like that you aren't doing yourself any favors because if you go to the game and the player fails it looks pretty silly and nobody should just want to go to a game because of some comparison a GM made about a 16 year old player. You say confidence for the kid but forget the other side of the coin which is a burden and expectation to live up to.

As for Koko then that was foolish on the part of management to think a team in 9th place with no hope of being higher than 7th to try and make a run instead of moving assets and starting a rebuild. Khokhlachev is done with the Spits in 20 games and management thought this was the smart decision why? It can shake the confidence if management can't make the prudent decisions.

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01-30-2013, 10:27 AM
  #716
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The only players I've heard comparisons to are Hall, Ellis, and, to a lesser extent, Nemisz. Who, before those guys, had anyone close to their caliber? You weren't going to get comparisons. Plus, don't forget, management wasn't around very long before those guys were drafted. When you draft a team that becomes a family, of sorts, you're going to make comparisons to the next group after that. You may not like being compared to another player, but if I'm a 16-year old and someone says "your game reminds me of Ryan Ellis", I'm going to smile and think "that's pretty cool."

Burden on a kid could be fairly easily solved, depending on the player's personality and maturity.

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nobody should just want to go to a game because of some comparison a GM made about a 16 year old player.
If the GM has just won back-to-back Cups and went to the West finals the next year, I'm probably going to listen to him. It's a great marketing tool, too. "The Spitfires are reloading. Come watch 16-year old sensation (insert name here), one of the slickest forwards since Taylor Hall, as the Spitfires take on (insert team here)." Fans will get curious.

Quote:
As for Koko then that was foolish on the part of management to think a team in 9th place with no hope of being higher than 7th to try and make a run instead of moving assets and starting a rebuild. Khokhlachev is done with the Spits in 20 games and management thought this was the smart decision why?
I'd imagine there's a lot more behind the scenes than you know. Besides, you'd have been whining if they went full rebuild. "2014 was supposed to be OUR year. So much for that!! Fire Rychel!" At least this way we have some entertaining hockey and, given our success against London this year, I wouldn't rule anything out in March and beyond.

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01-30-2013, 03:22 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
The only players I've heard comparisons to are Hall, Ellis, and, to a lesser extent, Nemisz. Who, before those guys, had anyone close to their caliber? You weren't going to get comparisons. Plus, don't forget, management wasn't around very long before those guys were drafted. When you draft a team that becomes a family, of sorts, you're going to make comparisons to the next group after that. You may not like being compared to another player, but if I'm a 16-year old and someone says "your game reminds me of Ryan Ellis", I'm going to smile and think "that's pretty cool."

Burden on a kid could be fairly easily solved, depending on the player's personality and maturity.



If the GM has just won back-to-back Cups and went to the West finals the next year, I'm probably going to listen to him. It's a great marketing tool, too. "The Spitfires are reloading. Come watch 16-year old sensation (insert name here), one of the slickest forwards since Taylor Hall, as the Spitfires take on (insert team here)." Fans will get curious.



I'd imagine there's a lot more behind the scenes than you know. Besides, you'd have been whining if they went full rebuild. "2014 was supposed to be OUR year. So much for that!! Fire Rychel!" At least this way we have some entertaining hockey and, given our success against London this year, I wouldn't rule anything out in March and beyond.
Johnson was compared to a Wellwood/Mitchell.

Yes the burden can be solved if the kids are mature you're talking about 16 year olds and their first time away from home. There are a lot of different factors that go into things and having high expectations isn't the best thing coming in.

Actually I wouldn't be saying that because I always thought shooting for 2014 was foolish and these past 2 years haven't proven otherwise. Before you talk about London you should talk about them getting to the playoffs first. Another couple 1-2 weeks the season will be finished.

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01-30-2013, 03:28 PM
  #718
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At least this way we have some entertaining hockey and, given our success against London this year, I wouldn't rule anything out in March and beyond.
A friendly wager if it does occur OHLTG? Over/ under 5 games? Small donation to charity or a pop at one of the games?
Only way I win is a sweep.

I like Razors logic, both with the comparison deal and need to rebuild aggressively if the prize isnt awarded to windsor.

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01-30-2013, 03:58 PM
  #719
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Spits player woes continues as Sanvido gets 2 games and Verbeek gets 5 games for their

part in a mini brawl at Sudbury last Sunday

Sanvido can return to the lineup on Sunday vs Guelph,while Verbeek can return next

Sunday at Kingston when Spits finish their 3 game leg out east

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01-30-2013, 04:20 PM
  #720
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Spits player woes continues as Sanvido gets 2 games and Verbeek gets 5 games for their

part in a mini brawl at Sudbury last Sunday

Sanvido can return to the lineup on Sunday vs Guelph,while Verbeek can return next

Sunday at Kingston when Spits finish their 3 game leg out east
Legend you sure got GangGreen wound up. When he made the comment off to work I wanted to say light lettuce and tomato on my sub please but I figure I would have gotten banned.

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01-30-2013, 04:36 PM
  #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Legend you sure got GangGreen wound up. When he made the comment off to work I wanted to say light lettuce and tomato on my sub please but I figure I would have gotten banned.
Rayzor

Lol,yeah he is being rather petulant I must say


You should have put that on its hilarious

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:18 PM
  #722
OHLTG
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Quote:
A friendly wager if it does occur OHLTG? Over/ under 5 games? Small donation to charity or a pop at one of the games?
Only way I win is a sweep.
What about $20 to charity of winner's choice?

This sub talk is making me hungry

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Old
01-30-2013, 06:01 PM
  #723
aresknights
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For sure Ohltg. Good idea.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:57 PM
  #724
GangGreen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Legend you sure got GangGreen wound up. When he made the comment off to work I wanted to say light lettuce and tomato on my sub please but I figure I would have gotten banned.
I got some secret sauce for ya too.
Not riled up at all. Just love seeing The Legend dance around questions.
Rayzor, you may now go back to your unadulterated love of all things London Knights.
I have an assorted on whole wheat to make.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:18 PM
  #725
OHLTG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GangGreen View Post
I got some secret sauce for ya too.
Not riled up at all. Just love seeing The Legend dance around questions.
Rayzor, you may now go back to your unadulterated love of all things London Knights.
I have an assorted on whole wheat to make.
I said Ham

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