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Old
01-24-2013, 01:04 AM
  #451
Holden Caulfield
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Originally Posted by mzappa View Post
Rant appreciated. Keep it up, I agree.

This, and they ignore the history of the original Winnipeg franchise.

As such, the world will forget PHX ever had a team, and soon enough.
What the hell are you talking about? PHO has retired numbers from the Original Jets franchise that never even played in PHO, there is an argument to be made that no organization has ever respected their original history better.

Phoenix has a new owner, the deal will hopefully be signed soon and the organization will be able to turn it around. But Phoenix deserves a real chance, they've never had that. Wishing misfortune on other groups of fans out of some misplaced vengeance is just not in my wheelhouse.

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01-24-2013, 01:07 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Which is apparently why Vancouver is putting up a stink about it.



This is the attitude that bugs me. You literally have zero idea of hockey in Seattle, but because they're American you automatically deem those fans unworthy of a team.

They even sell out their WHL games and that franchise is pure garbage (think of it like the leafs). People in Seattle love hockey, it's exactly why Vancouver doesn't want it to happen. They sell tons of tickets to people from Seattle and the surrounding area.

So I'm pretty sure they would have just as much success as in Quebec City. Just like Quebec they too are building an arena.

I don't think QC doesn't deserve a team, but I do believe Seattle deserves one as well. So let me ask you, why do they not deserve one?
If you think Seattle is such a hockey hotbed explain how the NHL placed teams in Florida, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Carolina, Phoenix, San Jose, Nashville and Atlanta over such a great hockey town. Because you sell out low priced WHL games doesn't translate into a success with the NHL. This rational that NHL hockey will work in a location where people watch Junior or College hockey is bunk or Milwaukee would have had a team 25 years ago.

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01-24-2013, 01:11 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
If you think Seattle is such a hockey hotbed explain how the NHL placed teams in Florida, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Carolina, Phoenix, San Jose, Nashville and Atlanta over such a great hockey town. Because you sell out low priced WHL games doesn't translate into a success with the NHL. This rational that NHL hockey will work in a location where people watch Junior or College hockey is bunk or Milwaukee would have had a team 25 years ago.
That's poor logic...

That was Gary's sunbelt strategy to grow the game in new areas (let's not argue about the success/notsuccess or intelligence/absentmindedness of such strategy)... not because those cities were "hockey hotbeds"...

By that logic they are more hockey hotbets (- ATL) because they got teams when WPG/QC couldn't keep theirs

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01-24-2013, 01:14 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
What the hell are you talking about? PHO has retired numbers from the Original Jets franchise that never even played in PHO, there is an argument to be made that no organization has ever respected their original history better.

Phoenix has a new owner, the deal will hopefully be signed soon and the organization will be able to turn it around. But Phoenix deserves a real chance, they've never had that. Wishing misfortune on other groups of fans out of some misplaced vengeance is just not in my wheelhouse.
Holden your right about the past Jets history in Arizona. I do think your in a small minority of fans both Canadian and American who think hockey will work in Glendale, I don't even think we would be having this discussion had the Coyotes arena been built on the east side of the Phoenix metro. I've said this in a few other threads and even some of the Coyote faithful believe that it would have made a difference. Things will get interesting soon enough as Jamison has a week left to purchase the team before the deadline of the deal expires.

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01-24-2013, 01:17 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Tintin's Ghost View Post
Coyotes business operations could probably fill a lot of those seats by marketing to fans of other teams. Anyone would love a trip to Arizona in the winter and grab good seats to their team's game. Especially if tickets to home games are not readily available.
The Coyotes get a lot of revenue every season from other fanbases visiting Phoenix.
Tickets are never ever hard to come by and they frequently run "all the beer you can drink, all you can eat, ..." promotions to try to get people to show up.

On top of all the other problems the team has the arena is in such a ****** location. It would be like us building the MTS centre in Portage La Prairie instead of Partage Ave.

I'd like to think that with the cap floor being dropped and a new ownership deal nearly finalized things will turn around for the team but I have my doubts.

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01-24-2013, 01:17 AM
  #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
If you think Seattle is such a hockey hotbed explain how the NHL placed teams in Florida, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Carolina, Phoenix, San Jose, Nashville and Atlanta over such a great hockey town. Because you sell out low priced WHL games doesn't translate into a success with the NHL. This rational that NHL hockey will work in a location where people watch Junior or College hockey is bunk or Milwaukee would have had a team 25 years ago.
Because they managed to get arenas and had an owner. The NHL followed the money.

Seattle will be a success in the NHL, I have no doubt. And they have miles more potential than a Quebec. The rink deal is a done deal, the area has never had a real chance. There is ridiculous corporate money there. Population numbers are a lot more appealing, and the support is there as the junior teams show. I would find it shocking if the NHL allows a move to QUE over SEA. Don Levin is looking into teams to finalize the support with Hansen. If Seattle had had their ducks in a row just a year earlier (this Hansen rink deal + Levin) Winnipeg wouldn't have a team either. The NHL will follow the money, and the big money potential is SEA, not QUE.

I really think SEA is more than potential though, it will be an instant success, IMO. But that's a hypothetical argument neither of us can prove.

If hockey is such a hotbed in Quebec City why did the Citadelles fail so completely?

@sipowicz, I agree 100% it would have different if the rink wasn't in Glendale. After being down in PHO last year I saw how far away that rink is, that is a stupid place to build no doubt. They should have waited for Scottsdale (almost had a deal there), but it goes back to the fact that PHO has never had a decent owner.

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01-24-2013, 01:21 AM
  #457
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
That's poor logic...

That was Gary's sunbelt strategy to grow the game in new areas (let's not argue about the success/notsuccess or intelligence/absentmindedness of such strategy)... not because those cities were "hockey hotbeds"...

By that logic they are more hockey hotbets (- ATL) because they got teams when WPG/QC couldn't keep theirs
I'll do a real quick arguement and say that the "sunbelt expansion" has grown the game and that the NHL, in general, is much stronger now than it was pre-expansion.

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01-24-2013, 01:22 AM
  #458
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Dammit Jet!!!
I knew this argument (or debate) would start up again.

There is ZERO point in continuing. This discussion has been had ad nauseum in the past, by the same posters no less. I'm not going to touch this, I've posted way to many times on the topic, and my views nor the Phoenix haters views will change.

I will restate however mocking other fan bases isn't called for.

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Old
01-24-2013, 01:23 AM
  #459
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Just to clarify, I was not posting the picture to taunt Coyotes fans. This is the Winnipeg Jets forum. It hurt me to the core when they left. I know that they HAD to leave at the time, and I know that isn't people in Arizona's fault.

I do not harbor any ill will to people in Phoenix. On the contrary, I feel bad for the fans of the Coyotes because they are constantly under attack for lack of support when they have been there all along, and economic factors are really hurting the team along with ownership issues and relocation uncertainty.

Thing is, no one went to bat for us when the exact same thing happened to us.

At any rate, I did not post the picture to start some rabid debate on the subject, nor to offend or insult anyone. I saw it on a friends Facebook page and thought I'd share it, since it is part of what is happening around the league

If the consensus is you'd rather not see this, I will happily delete the picture and all quotes. I just wanted everyone to know this wasn't some attack on the Coyotes fanbase.

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01-24-2013, 01:26 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Because they managed to get arenas and had an owner. The NHL followed the money.

Seattle will be a success in the NHL, I have no doubt. And they have miles more potential than a Quebec. The rink deal is a done deal, the area has never had a real chance. There is ridiculous corporate money there. Population numbers are a lot more appealing, and the support is there as the junior teams show. I would find it shocking if the NHL allows a move to QUE over SEA. Don Levin is looking into teams to finalize the support with Hansen. If Seattle had had their ducks in a row just a year earlier (this Hansen rink deal + Levin) Winnipeg wouldn't have a team either. The NHL will follow the money, and the big money potential is SEA, not QUE.

I really think SEA is more than potential though, it will be an instant success, IMO. But that's a hypothetical argument neither of us can prove.

If hockey is such a hotbed in Quebec City why did the Citadelles fail so completely?

@sipowicz, I agree 100% it would have different if the rink wasn't in Glendale. After being down in PHO last year I saw how far away that rink is, that is a stupid place to build no doubt. They should have waited for Scottsdale (almost had a deal there), but it goes back to the fact that PHO has never had a decent owner.
They need #31 and #32 cities. QC and Seattle are that. There is no easy #33 (Hamilton is not a easy 33 with the legal mess it will cause) so keeping Phoenix is very beneficial for expansion.

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01-24-2013, 01:33 AM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Because they managed to get arenas and had an owner. The NHL followed the money.

Seattle will be a success in the NHL, I have no doubt. And they have miles more potential than a Quebec. The rink deal is a done deal, the area has never had a real chance. There is ridiculous corporate money there. Population numbers are a lot more appealing, and the support is there as the junior teams show. I would find it shocking if the NHL allows a move to QUE over SEA. Don Levin is looking into teams to finalize the support with Hansen. If Seattle had had their ducks in a row just a year earlier (this Hansen rink deal + Levin) Winnipeg wouldn't have a team either. The NHL will follow the money, and the big money potential is SEA, not QUE.

If hockey is such a hotbed in Quebec City why did the Citadelles fail so completely?

@sipowicz, I agree 100% it would have different if the rink wasn't in Glendale. After being down in PHO last year I saw how far away that rink is, that is a stupid place to build no doubt. They should have waited for Scottsdale (almost had a deal there), but it goes back to the fact that PHO has never had a decent owner.

Seattle does have a lot of corporate money but whether this will go towards an NHL team remains to be seen. If you compare Seattle with Mpls/St. Paul both similar sized cities, the twin cities surprisingly enough has a higher avg. income level than Seattle, both markets had teams in the three major US sports leagues and the Wild had struggled a bit with attendance in the past five years even discounting tickets. With the NBA probably coming back to Seattle and with the addition of an NHL team can that marketplace support four major league teams, five if you count the MLS. The Twin Cities have shown problems with both the NBA and NHL (also in a prime hockey market) in the recent past so I'm not sure theat Seattle and the NHL is a slam dunk.

Quebec City never did embrace either the IHL or AHL who know's why. They do however support the CHL to a much, much greater degree than Seattle can even dream of. In Quebec City you have the known (750K hockey fans) VS Seattle (6-7K CHL fans). Time will tell which is more deserving, one will probably get the Coyotes the other an expansion franchise.

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Old
01-24-2013, 01:40 AM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Just to clarify, I was not posting the picture to taunt Coyotes fans. This is the Winnipeg Jets forum. It hurt me to the core when they left. I know that they HAD to leave at the time, and I know that isn't people in Arizona's fault.

I do not harbor any ill will to people in Phoenix. On the contrary, I feel bad for the fans of the Coyotes because they are constantly under attack for lack of support when they have been there all along, and economic factors are really hurting the team along with ownership issues and relocation uncertainty.

Thing is, no one went to bat for us when the exact same thing happened to us.

At any rate, I did not post the picture to start some rabid debate on the subject, nor to offend or insult anyone. I saw it on a friends Facebook page and thought I'd share it, since it is part of what is happening around the league

If the consensus is you'd rather not see this, I will happily delete the picture and all quotes. I just wanted everyone to know this wasn't some attack on the Coyotes fanbase.
I just thought it was in bad taste. Felt like an attack to me.

I get that this is the Jets forum, but unnecessary attacks on fanbases just something I generally don't like and will respond to

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01-24-2013, 01:44 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I just thought it was in bad taste. Felt like an attack to me.

I get that this is the Jets forum, but unnecessary attacks on fanbases just something I generally don't like and will respond to
We could get into a very lively debate about this but I am so tired of the whole subject to be honest.

I just hope they right another wrong somehow and QC gets a franchise. Those people would adore their team every bit as much as we do.

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01-24-2013, 01:46 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Seattle does have a lot of corporate money but whether this will go towards an NHL team remains to be seen. If you compare Seattle with Mpls/St. Paul both similar sized cities, the twin cities surprisingly enough has a higher avg. income level than Seattle, both markets had teams in the three major US sports leagues and the Wild had struggled a bit with attendance in the past five years even discounting tickets. With the NBA probably coming back to Seattle and with the addition of an NHL team can that marketplace support four major league teams, five if you count the MLS. The Twin Cities have shown problems with both the NBA and NHL (also in a prime hockey market) in the recent past so I'm not sure theat Seattle and the NHL is a slam dunk.

Quebec City never did embrace either the IHL or AHL who know's why. They do however support the CHL to a much, much greater degree than Seattle can even dream of. In Quebec City you have the known (750K hockey fans) VS Seattle (6-7K CHL fans). Time will tell which is more deserving, one will probably get the Coyotes the other an expansion franchise.
One of the problems with QC is that the province is full of multi generation Hab fams.
Yes I can see a lot of QC switching teams but I can see a very large percentage sticking with the Habs and outside of the city itself almost no one would switch.
More likely a lot of the people in the QC region would be pissed at suddenly having Hav games blacked out.

With the way the Wild played for most of its time in Minny can anyone blame the fans for attendance dropping off. They were the most boring team in e league to watch for years and on top of that are stuck with a ****** schedule in a division they don't want to be in.

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01-24-2013, 01:47 AM
  #465
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We could get into a very lively debate about this but I am so tired of the whole subject to be honest.

I just hope they right another wrong somehow and QC gets a franchise. Those people would adore their team every bit as much as we do.
That's the only way I look at it, by relocation, expansion or what ever QC is every bit as deserving as us.

PS We went from Phoenix to Tacoma (Seattle) all the way to..... Quebec....


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Old
01-24-2013, 01:59 AM
  #466
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
If you think Seattle is such a hockey hotbed explain how the NHL placed teams in Florida, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Carolina, Phoenix, San Jose, Nashville and Atlanta over such a great hockey town. Because you sell out low priced WHL games doesn't translate into a success with the NHL. This rational that NHL hockey will work in a location where people watch Junior or College hockey is bunk or Milwaukee would have had a team 25 years ago.
The "Sunbelt Strategy" was about bringing hockey to where it wasn't in order to garner fans who literally knew nothing about the sport. A lot of it had to do with TV deals and it is in no way in relation to Seattle. Other than those cities are located in the United States. Is there another relation, outside of country which you could find?

Or am I mistaken? Did the sunbelt cities have successful (or better yet, unsuccessful teams that could still sellout) AHL/junior level hockey before the NHL arrived?

Or does the fact Seattle and surrounding areas, Everett, Spokane, Portland, etc. all support teams that can sellout (even without winning team success!) not suggest hockey would do well in that market?

Oh, I forgot. If it's not in Canada it's automatically questionable. Seattle has everything the NHL could possibly ask for as far as a promising franchise is concerned.

I think your agenda is admirable as it's based on patriotism, but I think it's wrong. I think fans who want (and can support hockey) deserve hockey. Regardless of country. Not to mention putting hockey where it will succeed (in this case Seattle IMO) can only help to build the NHL.

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01-24-2013, 02:14 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
The "Sunbelt Strategy" was about bringing hockey to where it wasn't in order to garner fans who literally knew nothing about the sport. A lot of it had to do with TV deals and it is in no way in relation to Seattle. Other than those cities are located in the United States. Is there another relation, outside of country which you could find?

Or am I mistaken? Did the sunbelt cities have successful (or better yet, unsuccessful teams that could still sellout) AHL/junior level hockey before the NHL arrived?

Or does the fact Seattle and surrounding areas, Everett, Spokane, Portland, etc. all support teams that can sellout (even without winning team success!) not suggest hockey would do well in that market?

Oh, I forgot. If it's not in Canada it's automatically questionable. Seattle has everything the NHL could possibly ask for as far as a promising franchise is concerned.

I think your agenda is admirable as it's based on patriotism, but I think it's wrong. I think fans who want (and can support hockey) deserve hockey. Regardless of country. Not to mention putting hockey where it will succeed (in this case Seattle IMO) can only help to build the NHL.

Your probably right about Seattle, I think the NHL would welcome that.

In a perfect world the Coyotes would go to Hamilton as they are probably the most NHL ready city facility wise and for making money for that matter. Seattle and QC would be in line for the next expansion franchises.

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01-24-2013, 02:19 AM
  #468
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Your probably right about Seattle, I think the NHL would welcome that.

In a perfect world the Coyotes would go to Hamilton as they are probably the most NHL ready city facility wise and for making money for that matter. Seattle and QC would be in line for the next expansion franchises.
Honestly, I live in Hamilton...this city is not ready for an NHL franchise.

I would love one, but Copps Coliseum would need to be totally redone and I'm not sure how well it would be supported. I think North York/Vaughn (north of Toronto) area would be a better choice. It suffers from the same problems Quebec City might have. That area has a strongly entrenched die hard Leafs fanbase. Tough to tell who will switch over to a new franchise.

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01-24-2013, 06:07 AM
  #469
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The only thing I can and will say is the hockey wont work in Glendale.

They have needed a broke government to cover the teams losses in the last 3 years now?

I think there are 4 or 5 teams (maybe even more) that have been sold to new owners since the whole Moyes thing happened.

Why is that they cant find a buyer in that amount of time, that wants to buy and keep them in Arizona? Because, they have not made a nickel in what, 17 years now?

They have had pretty good teams, and still cant get people in the seats without literally giving away tickets.

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01-24-2013, 06:12 AM
  #470
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Because they managed to get arenas and had an owner. The NHL followed the money.

Seattle will be a success in the NHL, I have no doubt. And they have miles more potential than a Quebec. The rink deal is a done deal, the area has never had a real chance. There is ridiculous corporate money there. Population numbers are a lot more appealing, and the support is there as the junior teams show. I would find it shocking if the NHL allows a move to QUE over SEA. Don Levin is looking into teams to finalize the support with Hansen. If Seattle had had their ducks in a row just a year earlier (this Hansen rink deal + Levin) Winnipeg wouldn't have a team either. The NHL will follow the money, and the big money potential is SEA, not QUE.

I really think SEA is more than potential though, it will be an instant success, IMO. But that's a hypothetical argument neither of us can prove.

If hockey is such a hotbed in Quebec City why did the Citadelles fail so completely?

@sipowicz, I agree 100% it would have different if the rink wasn't in Glendale. After being down in PHO last year I saw how far away that rink is, that is a stupid place to build no doubt. They should have waited for Scottsdale (almost had a deal there), but it goes back to the fact that PHO has never had a decent owner.
Not shocking at all. If Phoenix soon becomes portable, and I suspect they will, Quebec would be the logical choice. Team can play in a 15,000 seat facility which has received the necessary upgrades to accomodate an NHL team while their arena is being built. Meanwhile, Seattle has an 8000 seat Key Arena (for hockey) in which the NHL team would lose tens of millions of dollars each year waiting for the new arena to be built in 2016. Quebec City is the obvious choice.

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01-24-2013, 12:17 PM
  #471
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threw down some cash tonight, what do you guys think of my picks. Florida +110 and Nashville +145!

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01-24-2013, 12:44 PM
  #472
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You're right of course, I'm just really bitter and admit complete biase on anything related to the Yotes. Especially after a drink.... But honestly I do wish the would move and move immediately.

Ok, will avoid PHX posts from now on!

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What the hell are you talking about? PHO has retired numbers from the Original Jets franchise that never even played in PHO, there is an argument to be made that no organization has ever respected their original history better.

Phoenix has a new owner, the deal will hopefully be signed soon and the organization will be able to turn it around. But Phoenix deserves a real chance, they've never had that. Wishing misfortune on other groups of fans out of some misplaced vengeance is just not in my wheelhouse.

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01-24-2013, 03:33 PM
  #473
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LA vs. Edmonton tonight on TSN. Can't wait to tune into that one! I love this hockey every night stuff. My wife, not so much. Told her "as of January 19th we had 99 straight nights of hockey. Deal with it, bro".

Dustin Penner set to be a healthy scratch. That guy just can't figure it out consistently. Probably never will.

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01-24-2013, 03:45 PM
  #474
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LA vs. Edmonton tonight on TSN. Can't wait to tune into that one! I love this hockey every night stuff. My wife, not so much. Told her "as of January 19th we had 99 straight nights of hockey. Deal with it, bro".

Dustin Penner set to be a healthy scratch. That guy just can't figure it out consistently. Probably never will.
Basically told the gf the same thing. She wanted to go for dinner yesterday but I wanted to watch Leafs n Pens so she had to settle for take out.

I told her, "Bro enjoy this lockout, because when it's over this guy is going to be locked in, Wud up".

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01-24-2013, 03:49 PM
  #475
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LA vs. Edmonton tonight on TSN. Can't wait to tune into that one! I love this hockey every night stuff. My wife, not so much. Told her "as of January 19th we had 99 straight nights of hockey. Deal with it, bro".

Dustin Penner set to be a healthy scratch. That guy just can't figure it out consistently. Probably never will.
Quote:
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Basically told the gf the same thing. She wanted to go for dinner yesterday but I wanted to watch Leafs n Pens so she had to settle for take out.

I told her, "Bro enjoy this lockout, because when it's over this guy is going to be locked in, Wud up".
Gentlemen thats the best part about having multiple girlfriends, the ones who have a problem with it you just ditch

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