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Old
01-11-2013, 08:07 AM
  #126
Angelus
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
That's an awfully funny statement to make considering your teams recent success's.

Since 1999, the Oilers have advanced past the first round one time in five attempts.
Since 1999, the Flames have advanced past the first round one time in five attempts.

Would you Imagine that. I guess he would be a perfect fit then eh?
These pissing contests bore me, but nice arbitrary cut off date, a year after the Oilers upset Colorado.

Here's a question: since 1989 what franchise has either missed the playoffs or lost in the first round every year except 2004? I'll take "the team some expansion franchises have a better track record than" Alex!

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01-11-2013, 08:32 AM
  #127
HighLifeMan
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Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
These pissing contests bore me, but nice arbitrary cut off date, a year after the Oilers upset Colorado.

Here's a question: since 1989 what franchise has either missed the playoffs or lost in the first round every year except 2004? I'll take "the team some expansion franchises have a better track record than" Alex!
It's not a pissing match. I simply pointed out that Edmonton has been no better than Calgary over the past decade and change, and in fact have been worse.

You however feel the need to turn it into such, so I will leave it at that.

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01-11-2013, 10:10 AM
  #128
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Came here to see Flames and Oilers fans ***** at each other, was not disappointed. God I missed NHL hockey.

To the point at hand, anyone talking about Bouwmeester being soft really needs to re-focus their argument. There are very few "complete" players in the NHL and Flames fans will be the first to admit that Bouwmeester is not one of them. If he was, we wouldn't be entertaining trade offers for him, now would we? If you're looking for a big-hitting, offensive defenseman, you should look elsewhere. But if you want a guy who eats minutes, can play against other teams' top lines, skates and moves the puck well, Bouw may be your guy. Every player has both strengths and weaknesses, that's like looking at Malkin and saying "yeah he scores a lot but he doesn't kill penalties". And no, I'm not comparing Bouw to Malkin, I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous it is to point out a guy's flaws while ignoring his strengths.

To the person who said that you can't ignore Bouwmeester's contract, IMO you're both right and wrong. Yes, he's overpaid at $6.8 million, no arguments here, but that really only matters if you're planning on spending to the cap at some point before his contract expires (after next season) or if you have a personal interest in the team's finances, which I'm assuming no one here does. As it stands, the Oilers are sitting on $7.2 million in cap space for this season and $15.8 million for next season and no major raises due to any young guys before then. So is it really going to matter if they "waste" ~$1.5-2 million by overpaying a guy like Bouwmeester? Probably not. Frankly, if the team isn't planning on being a cap team soon, his being overpaid would only help you get him at a reduced rate, at which point you could re-sign him to a lesser contract when this one expires.

I'm not going to touch on whether Bouwmeester for Gagner is good value because I think it's irrelevant -- the deal creates bigger holes in both rosters than it solves. As others have already said, the Oilers don't have anyone to fill in Gagner's 2C spot and the Flames don't have anyone who can take on Bouw's 25 mins/night, making this entire argument pointless.

As for the Smid vs. Bouwmeester thing, I notice that no one here will go as far as to say that Smid is better than Bouwmeester without adding a qualifier like "considering their contracts" or something similar. As I said above, in my opinion contracts are irrelevant unless you're spending to the cap, or planning to in the near future. Smid is a better value while Bouwmeester is a better player.

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Old
01-11-2013, 02:27 PM
  #129
Jamin
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Considering salaries, I'd rather have Smid than Bouwmeester.
The whole thread can be broken down into this post. Yet based on 6 pages of flame fans "arguments" they just dont get it. Its never been about him being good, obviously he is good, he is not good enough to warrant a huge price that could negatively effect signing RNH


Last edited by Jamin: 01-11-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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Old
01-11-2013, 03:14 PM
  #130
berto14
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Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
The whole thread can be broken down into this post. Yet based on 6 pages of flame fans "arguments" they just dont get it. Its never been about him being good, obviously he is good, he is not good enough to warrant a huge price that could negatively effect signing RNH
For one, both Bouwmeester's and RNH's contracts expire at the end of the 2013-14 season. Secondly, considering the Oilers only have 4 players under contract for 2014-15 and $43 million in cap space, I really don't think that signing Bouwmeester would prevent you guys from extending RNH. And finally, the reason Flames fans were "arguing" is because of the volume of Oilers fans claiming stupid things like "I wouldn't take Bouwmeester for free" and various other nonsense.

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01-12-2013, 04:04 PM
  #131
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I like Smid. No qualifiers.

He was a beast last year. Blocked shots, shut down the other team, played tough, and stood up for teammates. It's understandable if fans of other teams didn't know this, but his play improved so much last year from being already a good defenseman to being a very good one. He was the definition of unsung hero and every bit good enough to play in the top pairing. (You may say 'Ya, but the Oilers finished 29th last year, so Smid couldn't have been good'. That's a fallacy of division. Smid and Petry were not responsible for that.)

My point is that Smid has turned into a great defenseman, and outsiders might not realize this.

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Old
01-12-2013, 05:17 PM
  #132
Remember2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Considering salaries, I'd rather have Smid than Bouwmeester.
HAHA okay can I play this game too? Hmmm considering salaries I'd rather have Giroux than Gomez. Whats your point?

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Old
01-12-2013, 05:33 PM
  #133
Kid Dynamite
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Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
HAHA okay can I play this game too? Hmmm considering salaries I'd rather have Giroux than Gomez. Whats your point?
... Are you saying if you didn't consider salaries you would take Gomez? Ignoring the fact that what you just posted was retarded, the fact of the matter is this is a salary cap league, thus salaries have a huge effect on value. Now, Edmonton isn't really in a salary cap crunch so Jbow would probably be the better choice for this season. Looking into the future where it could come down to Smid + being able to afford extending Yakupov or Jbow? Yeah I take Smid thanks.

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:37 PM
  #134
SephF
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Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
HAHA okay can I play this game too? Hmmm considering salaries I'd rather have Giroux than Gomez. Whats your point?

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Old
01-12-2013, 09:47 PM
  #135
Chayos
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Originally Posted by kresco View Post
I hate this site. I dont know why I come here people on here are so stubborn and blind. Everyone here sees their players better than eveyone else. I admit that Smid is a good defensive def man and is is better than all our def with the exception of GIO & Boumeester and possibly wideman (havent seen him alot so not to sure yet). But to say flat out that Smid is better than Bouwmeester is like saying backlund is better than Nuge. Its just ludicrous. I wish people would just sit back and look at value of other players without be unbiased and stop valuing their own players to ridiculous proportoins. I agree we would not gte duchene for bouwmeester thats why i created the thread for Gagner NOT duchene. But everyone who sees bouwmeester as a horrible player is either blind or has been listening to to many HF threads of people who hate without actually watching.
I think the original Offer was fair value for Jaybo. I light of the oilers lack of center depth though it makes zero sense though. Jaybo would be a solid addition if he wasn't 6.68 million dollars.

In regards to the Smid vs Jaybo comparison's I think flames fans need to realize the oiler fans see what Jaybo brings and are saying that at the kind of money smid is a preferable option. I actually would take Smid over Jaybo as well and the money is the biggest reason. At teh same mon ey then of course you take Jaybo but who would want Smid at $6,68 million?

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Old
01-13-2013, 02:08 PM
  #136
judge301
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Originally Posted by berto14 View Post
For one, both Bouwmeester's and RNH's contracts expire at the end of the 2013-14 season. Secondly, considering the Oilers only have 4 players under contract for 2014-15 and $43 million in cap space, I really don't think that signing Bouwmeester would prevent you guys from extending RNH. And finally, the reason Flames fans were "arguing" is because of the volume of Oilers fans claiming stupid things like "I wouldn't take Bouwmeester for free" and various other nonsense.
In context that means taking on his contract and what he'd bring to the team. The team just doesn't need that player right now. The Oilers need grit, scoring and physical dominance on the back end. The 5 minutes, give or take, extra JBo plays per game over Smid is just 5 more minutes of uninspired style of hockey the Oilers have left behind. I'm not judging any fans valuation of JBo. I can't because when the Oilers were going downhill on a rocket sled many fans including myself overvalued our redundant wanna be stars as well.

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Old
01-13-2013, 02:16 PM
  #137
judge301
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Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
HAHA okay can I play this game too? Hmmm considering salaries I'd rather have Giroux than Gomez. Whats your point?
LOL, I'm not making direct comparisons to the players but lets assume Smid is a young upcoming player on a decent contract with unknown upside. Also, lets assume JBo is the older overpaid player that was overhyped and was awarded a contract that far exceeds the value he brings to a team and game... Is that how you're playing?

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Old
01-13-2013, 02:18 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Brilliant!!!

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Old
01-13-2013, 04:33 PM
  #139
Eskimo44
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Originally Posted by orangeshinpads View Post
I like Smid. No qualifiers.

He was a beast last year. Blocked shots, shut down the other team, played tough, and stood up for teammates. It's understandable if fans of other teams didn't know this, but his play improved so much last year from being already a good defenseman to being a very good one. He was the definition of unsung hero and every bit good enough to play in the top pairing. (You may say 'Ya, but the Oilers finished 29th last year, so Smid couldn't have been good'. That's a fallacy of division. Smid and Petry were not responsible for that.)

My point is that Smid has turned into a great defenseman, and outsiders might not realize this.


Bouwmeester does things that Smid doesn't like the breakout pass but at the end of the day Smid does everything else relating to the job of a defensive dman better than Bouwmeester. Just because Smid is lacking some skills Bouwmeester has doesn't mean he's the less effective player, perhaps less diverse but he can play his role to a higher level than Bouwmeester. Basically it's like this:

JBou - Defensively - 7.5/10 - Offensively - 6.5/10
Smid - Defensively - 9/10 - Offensively - 4/10

It's just an example so don't get too caught up with the numbers. I just want to show despite Bouwmeester having the better all around game i'd rather have the guy who can take over at his aspet of the game. Usually the two way types are worth more but there are certain elite defensive types that i'd take over any non elite two way dman. I think Bouwmeester is similar in style and maybe a bit better than a Tom Gilbert and i wouldn't even come close to dealing Smid for Gilbert (and i was a Gilbert fan).


Last edited by Eskimo44: 01-13-2013 at 04:44 PM.
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