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Kessel's Future?

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01-09-2013, 01:48 PM
  #26
Bomber0104
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I dont see how any player is going to want a starring role in this circus going forward.

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01-09-2013, 01:48 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBach View Post
How are we going to get a player that we can build around for a player that we "can't" without giving up too much?
Itīs called taking one step back to be able to take two step forward.

A player, younger and less established then Kessel but with the skills (2-way play, grit etc) and the characteristics of a player you build around (leadership, charisma etc). Thatīs how you trade a player you cant build around for one that you can. Lets say a team is stacked with leaders, 2-way gritty players but who miss out on a supreme individual in terms of offensive skills like Kessel then I am sure they would be interested to trade. Question is, would we?

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01-09-2013, 01:50 PM
  #28
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Short term: Kessel comes out on fire this season to prove Burke right. Everyone's blaming the Kessel deal for the firing it seems, it should light a fire under Kessel's ass. Or ruin his confidence.

Long term: I'm a lot less confident in re-signing Kessel. He seems to have had a great relationship with Burke, from the deal to team USA, they had a mutual respect. With the way Burke got treated by the organization, I could see Kessel taking a much harder look at free agency than before.

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01-09-2013, 01:51 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
Itīs called taking one step back to be able to take two step forward.

A player, younger and less established then Kessel but with the skills (2-way play, grit etc) and the characteristics of a player you build around (leadership, charisma etc). Thatīs how you trade a player you cant build around for one that you can. Lets say a team is stacked with leaders, 2-way gritty players but who miss out on a supreme individual in terms of offensive skills like Kessel then I am sure they would be interested to trade. Question is, would we?
Can you name any realistic options/scenarios? I can't. The question we have to ask ourselves is how many players are actually better than Kessel, and how many of those would we actually be able to pry from their team's hands?

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01-09-2013, 01:52 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I dont see how any player is going to want a starring role in this circus going forward.
Maybe they will want to come here because we don't tolerate losing.

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01-09-2013, 01:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBach View Post
Can you name any realistic options/scenarios? I can't.
Gilmour's situation on Calgary. Clearly Doug was great and not just good. No longer would he sit backseat to Roberts and Theo.

He became something bigger and helped the Leafs.

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01-09-2013, 01:59 PM
  #32
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Dregger ...Phil Kessel would want to be anywhere but Toronto.

Panic.

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01-09-2013, 01:59 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
Dregger ...Phil Kessel would want to be anywhere but Toronto.

Panic.
He said this...?

When?

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01-09-2013, 02:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
He said this...?

When?
On TSN.
That is not a direct quote. The first part was "Some nights .."

Not even trollin' lol

We are so ****ed.

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01-09-2013, 02:05 PM
  #35
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Kessel would have walked for nothing...

Burke would have stubbornly let him walk to free agency and put us over a barrel,see Grabovski $5.5 Million!!!! Kessel will be gone by next season before he can walk.Those who know hockey are happy today,those who thought Toronto was about to overpay for Luongo(negative value now) are crying.

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01-09-2013, 02:08 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
Burke would have stubbornly let him walk to free agency and put us over a barrel,see Grabovski $5.5 Million!!!! Kessel will be gone by next season before he can walk.Those who know hockey are happy today,those who thought Toronto was about to overpay for Luongo(negative value now) are crying.
How do you know this and what the hell Grabo got to do with it?

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01-09-2013, 02:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
On TSN.
That is not a direct quote. The first part was "Some nights .."

Not even trollin' lol

We are so ****ed.
So basiclly it's just Dreger spewing random speculation. Good to know. Let me know when Kessel actually says something. Good grief guys...

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01-09-2013, 02:09 PM
  #38
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IMO Phil wont go, any sane person would realize that your never going to get the same return on a player on a different trade. The world just doesnt work that way. I think Kessel can be an impact player, you have to remember he is still fairly young and will only get that much better as he matures and progresses as a star player.

I also dont think that Nonis would make a trade that would essentially make his mentor and good personal friend look like he royally screwed up

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01-09-2013, 02:10 PM
  #39
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Didn't you know he's being traded for Mark Schiefele.

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01-09-2013, 02:14 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Gill As A Leaf View Post
Gilmour's situation on Calgary. Clearly Doug was great and not just good. No longer would he sit backseat to Roberts and Theo.

He became something bigger and helped the Leafs.
That was in the pre-cap days when teams could be stacked like that with potential stars. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm merely asking if we can think of any realistic scenarios in the present. Is there a particular player that the "trade Kessel" constituency have in mind and is there a reason for that choice? At this point in the Leafs' history, we can't afford to shoot blindly and make trades based on conjecture. Right now, the stats favour Kessel.

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01-09-2013, 02:20 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-Eric Iannicello View Post
Nonis has a huge part in Phaneuf's deal, not sure about Kessel..

Whether or not that plays a factor I'm not sure. But both are UFA's after next season. Maybe Nonis tries to flip Kessel for a #1 center while Kessel has term? Hoping JVR and Kulemin bounce back? We have more winger depth than center depth...
List our potential current wingers outside of Kessel

Lupul
JvR
Kadri
Kulemin
MacA
Frattin
Biggs
Komarov
Ashton
Leivo
Ross
Brown

These are guys who are potential top nine... some of our prospects won't make it, but that is 12 guys for six spots...

Kessel isn't a leader, he isn't the face of the franchise. I like the guy, but if we have the opportunity to upgrade to a legit #1C, why wouldn't we do it?

Like Kessel for Getzlaf? Permission to talk to Getzlaf in advance, extend Getzlaf...

Such a move, and I think the Leafs are a better team.

We have depth in Forwards.. not so much at the C.
We have depth in puck moving D...

This team needs a leader, a face of the franchise.

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01-09-2013, 02:31 PM
  #42
johnny_rudeboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
List our potential current wingers outside of Kessel

Lupul
JvR
Kadri
Kulemin
MacA
Frattin
Biggs
Komarov
Ashton
Leivo
Ross
Brown

These are guys who are potential top nine... some of our prospects won't make it, but that is 12 guys for six spots...

Kessel isn't a leader, he isn't the face of the franchise. I like the guy, but if we have the opportunity to upgrade to a legit #1C, why wouldn't we do it?

Like Kessel for Getzlaf? Permission to talk to Getzlaf in advance, extend Getzlaf...

Such a move, and I think the Leafs are a better team.

We have depth in Forwards.. not so much at the C.
We have depth in puck moving D...

This team needs a leader, a face of the franchise.
Good post. And acquiring wingers is an easier task (not the same as easy) then getting centers of equal quality.

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01-09-2013, 02:43 PM
  #43
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Tbh, I didn't really like the Carlyle signing, and looking to being able to sign the 2 top ufa's Burke would have helped us with it, but Carlyle is screwing us. TBh, hoping he gets relieved, at least to Asst. Coach. Eakins is fully deserving, especially by the Calder finals showing. Don't like firing Burke now when he was a big factor for Leaf negotiations in the CBA.

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01-09-2013, 02:53 PM
  #44
JSBach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
List our potential current wingers outside of Kessel

Lupul
JvR
Kadri
Kulemin
MacA
Frattin
Biggs
Komarov
Ashton
Leivo
Ross
Brown

These are guys who are potential top nine... some of our prospects won't make it, but that is 12 guys for six spots...

Kessel isn't a leader, he isn't the face of the franchise. I like the guy, but if we have the opportunity to upgrade to a legit #1C, why wouldn't we do it?

Like Kessel for Getzlaf? Permission to talk to Getzlaf in advance, extend Getzlaf...

Such a move, and I think the Leafs are a better team.

We have depth in Forwards.. not so much at the C.
We have depth in puck moving D...

This team needs a leader, a face of the franchise.
Kessel has been getting better, and one could argue that Getzlaf has been steadily declining. That, and he's about three years older. He's a first line centre if he can get above 70 points again, but can he on the Leafs? For now, I would feel more secure having a mediocre centre and a great winger than a potentially great centre and a mediocre winger.

This is OT to the extent that it doesn't involve Kessel, but if we're really desperate for a good centre, why aren't we talking about possibly trading either Gardiner or Rielly? We arguably need a centre more than we need two puck-moving defencemen (three if one counts Liles in the short term). That way we can have a great winger and a good centre.

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01-09-2013, 03:07 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBach View Post
Kessel has been getting better, and one could argue that Getzlaf has been steadily declining. That, and he's about three years older. He's a first line centre if he can get above 70 points again, but can he on the Leafs? For now, I would feel more secure having a mediocre centre and a great winger than a potentially great centre and a mediocre winger.

This is OT to the extent that it doesn't involve Kessel, but if we're really desperate for a good centre, why aren't we talking about possibly trading either Gardiner or Rielly? We arguably need a centre more than we need two puck-moving defencemen (three if one counts Liles in the short term). That way we can have a great winger and a good centre.
Finally... someone talking sense in this thread. If we're going to be moving assets for a #1 C, it needs to come from our defense.. not our only elite scoring option who is only 25 years old. I'd happily trade Jake or Morgan if it meant getting a #1 C (they'd have to be the most substatial piece leaving Toronto).

OP started off this thread terribly with "the Leafs don't exactly owe Kessel anything"... as if any team (other than NJ and Brodeur who signed below market value to remain a Devil) would owe something to a player they're currently paying millions of dollars to play hockey.

Others in this thread are talking as if Kessel was billed as someone we can build around and lead this team... which he wasn't. He was billed as a sniper and that's exactly what he's been since he's arrived. He's earned every penny of that contract he signed imo and his points per $ earned is likely amongst the highest in the league for guys no longer on their ELC.

Kessel is a stud and needs to be here long term provided the price on his next extension is reasonable.

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01-09-2013, 03:13 PM
  #46
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Do people think Burke picked up Kessel for his truculence? He was picked up because he's a great offensive talent and that's what he's become. Why trade the guy for performing EXACTLY (you could even argue better then) as advertised?

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01-09-2013, 03:21 PM
  #47
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What makes anyone think Kessel is resigning in Toronto? IMO he is as good as gone, 1st chance he gets. BTW that 1st chance is right around the corner.

Toronto brass and fans can want to keep Kessel all they want, but that's doesn't change the fact that Kessel most likely wants to win and get outta TO.

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01-09-2013, 03:22 PM
  #48
darrylsittler27
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Here is the bottom line for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
How do you know this and what the hell Grabo got to do with it?
I wanted Burke fired,Burke is an idiot.Grabo at 5.5 means kessel at what 8 million? Burke has now been fired and all those who supported him for going to stupid parades are now defeated.The End.

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01-09-2013, 03:22 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Believe View Post
Do people think Burke picked up Kessel for his truculence? He was picked up because he's a great offensive talent and that's what he's become. Why trade the guy for performing EXACTLY (you could even argue better then) as advertised?
Because he's about the leave the team as a free agent and the Leafs will get nothing of value if that happens?

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01-09-2013, 03:23 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Gill As A Leaf View Post
Now that Burke is gone, the team doesn't exactly owe anything to Kessel. It's evident that you cannot build a team around him. Yes he is a good player, but like anyone he can be moved.

What do you think will happen? Can you see the Leafs moving him before the trade deadline (2014).
So because you can't build a team around him he has to be moved?

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