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Bobby Lu Part II(All Luongo Talk goes here) [Post 643: Luongo to Philly?]

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Old
01-09-2013, 05:28 PM
  #251
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Its a difference. Not a massive one. Burke and Nonis were and still are the 2 biggest voices on player moves. A different guy now has the final say but they always worked hard to try to come to a consensus.
Bob Mckenzie say they are similar, but then Dave Hodges says they are completely different. Also Tom Aselmi was just on sportsnet for a good 10 minutes saying that Nonis is completely different. Tom Aselmi's opinion should mean the most here since he was part of Burke being fired.

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01-09-2013, 05:29 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by The Kassian Train View Post
I'm glad you're not impressed because it wasn't said to impress you. It was mentioned to show you that if you believed that Rogers Telecommunications was an organization who is not in the business of making revenue you're dead wrong.

With all that being said, obviously they swapped out the man who makes the main decisions to an organization which they expect to generate revenue throughout the hockey league. By regime do you mean head coach? Because by all accounts I look at the Carlyle hire as much as I do as a Nonis hire.

With any other revenue driven business, you don't swap out a whole team or 'regime' as you would like to put it in order to achieve success. You swap out people in your management team or decision makers who you think are making decisions that maybe holding back an organization from being successful. They then micro manage from their on.

Did MLSE make a wrong decision? Time will tell. In the end it's awkward especially with all the rumblings, but to swap out a whole regime would cause you to set your Leafs jersey on fire even sooner rather than later that's for sure.
By regime, I mean all, or at least some, of the management committee that Burke had... or at the very least, the the right-hand-man who works with Burke on all decisions.

This is a media conglomerate owning a business that is not their core business... so micro-management is not appropriate or valuable. This isn't a business where the people above Brian Burke are more qualified than him to make player-personnel decisions. Brian Burke's regime had total autonomy from a hockey perspective as does Dave Nonis'. Either you have faith in the ability of that regime to do their job, or you don't, and you hire a regime that you do have faith in.

By choosing to keep the regime as in tact as possible, and not giving Nonis as interim tag, they have indicated that they have faith in Burke's regime. They opted for the smallest possible change they could make while eliminating a big media (their core business) problem. The biggest change they've made, is no longer having a guy who battles with the media (and by extension, other parts of your organization) as the face of the Leafs.

edit: To quote Tom Anselmi "at the end of the day it was looking for a difference voice and leadership approach".

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01-09-2013, 05:29 PM
  #253
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Again, the fact that Gardiner is the centerpiece should be no surprise. If you follow Gillis's targets over the past several months (combined with TO not having the same trade pull FLA has), the clear target is Gardiner to get Lu. As many have said, Burke has a mancrush on Gardiner, much like most TO fans. Likely he couldn't see past it to get some great goaltending.

Whatever people's opinion of the Burke firing and Gardiner being at the center of a deal, it should be stated again, don't underestimate Lu.

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01-09-2013, 05:29 PM
  #254
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Bobby Mac just said on TSN that Gardiner was a non-starter in trade talks.

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01-09-2013, 05:30 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Who said anything about Getzlaf or Perry? Amnesty buyouts or not, your Canucks will have their own cap struggles. With 13 players signed and only 9M to play with leaves the Canucks with <1M left for each player to fill the roster out. If you buyout Ballard you'll only have ~1.2M left for each remaining player. How could you be so short-sighted? The Toronto Maple Leafs should not be dealing their most valuable futures to fill holes, yet. Whether Ownership decides otherwise is up to them but it will greatly determine how much interest I have in this team going forward.
So the most important position on the ice is a just a "hole" that shouldn't be plugged by trading anything of value. Got it. Not the most sensible approach to improving your team, but there you have it.

There is every reason to believe that Luongo will be playing at the top of his game for another 5 years. Minimum. That is very likely five years in the playoffs. A winning atmosphere for a team very used to losing. You make it an environment attractive to free agents, and gives your younger players better caliber of vets to learn from.

Why posters are trying to paint Luongo as an anchor to a team is beyond me. Nothing in reality supports that opinion. The Leafs would be better now, in the short term, and in the long term as well.

Jake Gardiner does not get you in the playoffs ... Luongo does. The biggest problem with the Leafs it their goaltending and their team defense. Solving the goaltending issue goes a long way to solving their other problem.

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01-09-2013, 05:30 PM
  #256
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Apparently Bobby Mac said Jake Gardiner is a non-starter.

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01-09-2013, 05:30 PM
  #257
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If it makes Canuck fans feel any better - after months and months of arguing back and forth about the bargaining position Gillis has in the Luongo trade - today, MLSE just unanimously gave you guys the hammer.

With Burke at the helm I felt confident that a good hockey trade would have been made for Luongo that benefitted the Leafs longterm or not at all.

But no, now MLSE has decided Mike Gillis and the Vancouver Canucks, here you go - take what you want. We want Luongo so bad to get back playoff revenue we're willing to fire our guy to make it happen.

Talk about being bent over a barrel. And for one I am very nervous.

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01-09-2013, 05:31 PM
  #258
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*Sigh*

Rielly it is then.

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01-09-2013, 05:31 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
It's not a bad deal for you guys, could be worse.
I meant from a leafs POV, Kessel will NOT be traded for Luongo

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01-09-2013, 05:31 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
If that is the case then yes it does in fact mean things will be very different. But 2 things. Even if Burke is mad at the team, he is still very close to the guy now running the team. And I would think the Leafs want another team to hire Burke, as soon as someone does they dont have to pay him anymore.
I disagree Toronto's owners have a lot of money and major corporations are just not run this way. Sorry bud you gotta catch up on corporate news to understand this I guess. Burke will probably have no impact on anything going forward. Not sure any other way of puting it.

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01-09-2013, 05:31 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by badger mayhew View Post
bobby mac just said on tsn that gardiner was a non-starter in trade talks.
thank god!

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01-09-2013, 05:32 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Apparently Bobby Mac said Jake Gardiner is a non-starter.
I doubt the board cares. They obviously want a big name and Luongo is that name. You don't fire a GM days before camp opens for a shortened season because you don't like the guy. The board clearly want a Luongo deal done before the season starts.

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01-09-2013, 05:32 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Check the McGowan podcast later.


100%, performance was cited as a factor.
I agree with this assessment. I just don't believe that Burke was fired because of the Luongo situation.

As Bobby Mac said, this would be ownership directly involving themselves in hockey decisions and would be an extremely unlikely scenario.

All one has to do is look at Burke's record. He's had four years and they are still a bottom feeding team with very top notch few assets.

And I am probably alone on this, but I donn't see TML trading those few legitimate assets for Lou.

I have said all along that I would not trade Lou for secondary players and I still believe that.

Which is why I don't beleve he will be going to Toronto.

And hey, I'd love a trade involving Kadri and Gardiner...but I just don't see it.

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01-09-2013, 05:33 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I've never suggested that Rogers motivation isn't profit, I'm simply saying that profit does not lead you to make the decision the Leafs made today. If profit was the motivation, and you don't feel Burke's regime is capable of generating profit (playoffs), then you swap out the regime.

They didn't do that. They kept his regime in place, but moved his bombastic personality away from being the face of the franchise, and also away from being the person who deals with substantial portions of your media conglomerate.

They waited until it was necessary. Had there been a full-year lockout, no firing would've been neccessary. With the lockout ending, they had to either play under Brian Burke, or fire him.
COO Anselmi has been quoted to saying "Brian will not have direct authority over hockey operations... this will allow (us) to benefit from his hockey expertise," and, "This is a conversation that happened over several months."

Tanenbaum has been quoted to saying "this was the boards decision" and its been reported he dodged questions altogether.

- as per mirtle's twitter

Burke is staying on as Senior Advisor to MLSE Board and Tom Anselmi.

That sounds to me like the board does, in fact, want some say in hockey operations so they got rid of the man Tanenbaum gave full autonomy to and gave him a title so he could run out the remainder of his contract. I think this is the last we've heard of Brian Burke and anything TML related

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01-09-2013, 05:33 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Apparently Bobby Mac said Jake Gardiner is a non-starter.
Whew.

*gulp* ... What if it's Morgan Rielly that is now the target for Mike Gillis?

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01-09-2013, 05:33 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
By regime, I mean all, or at least some, of the management committee that Burke had... or at the very least, the the right-hand-man who works with Burke on all decisions.

This is a media conglomerate owning a business that is not their core business... so micro-management is not appropriate or valuable. Brian Burke's regime had total autonomy from a hockey perspective as does Dave Nonis'. Either you have faith in the ability of that regime to do their job, or you don't, and you hire a regime that you do have faith in.

By choosing to keep the regime as in tact as possible, and not giving Nonis as interim tag, they have indicated that they have faith in Burke's regime. The biggest change they've made, is no longer having a guy who battles with the media (and by extension, other parts of your organization) at the top of it.
Micro Managing is actually a very important aspect of business of hockey and most definitely exists whether you like to admit it or not. Maybe not with the Leafs organization, but certainly with other organizations.

So let me ask you this, what did you want them to do? MLSE to let go of their whole regime at this time? I don't agree with replacing the whole regime at this time, but perhaps after the season. This also makes MLSE's decision of not placing the interim tag infront of Nonis odd.

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01-09-2013, 05:33 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Bob Mckenzie say they are similar, but then Dave Hodges says they are completely different. Also Tom Aselmi was just on sportsnet for a good 10 minutes saying that Nonis is completely different. Tom Aselmi's opinion should mean the most here since he was part of Burke being fired.
It does and he said the main reason for the firing is "to get a different voice, a different leadership approach."

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01-09-2013, 05:34 PM
  #268
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I believe you. And I dont really disagree that he deserved it. But I did hear him say they wanted a more low key guy as the public face of the team.

Ok fair enough, but if that was the impetus to can him, why not do it in August? Why wait until the start of the season, or just before, and just before the Luongo hoopla was reaching critical mass? The timing is important here.



Change it to change the figurehead? Fine. Performance? Fine. But to do it now, just before the Luongo deal was going to come to a head... has to link the two together. It wasn't the sole factor, but it was a factor IMO. And in the opinions of Lebrun, Mirtle, Cox and Spector... who is now saying the deal will be done on Sunday.

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01-09-2013, 05:34 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
COO Anselmi has been quoted to saying "Brian will not have direct authority over hockey operations... this will allow (us) to benefit from his hockey expertise," and, "This is a conversation that happened over several months."

Tanenbaum has been quoted to saying "this was the boards decision" and its been reported he dodged questions altogether.

- as per mirtle's twitter

Burke is staying on as Senior Advisor to MLSE Board and Tom Anselmi.

That sounds to me like the board does, in fact, want some say in hockey operations so they got rid of the man Tanenbaum gave full autonomy to and gave him a title so he could run out the remainder of his contract. I think this is the last we've heard of Brian Burke and anything TML related
Sounds to me like they're simply trying to get Burke out as quietly as possible.

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01-09-2013, 05:35 PM
  #270
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Seems like Nonis is in between a rock & a hard place... and unfortunately for Nonis that "hard place" isn't a week old donut.

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01-09-2013, 05:35 PM
  #271
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McCown just now: I am -100%- sure Gillis was asking for Gards and Kadri.

lol.

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01-09-2013, 05:35 PM
  #272
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McCowan again reiterating that he is 100% sure

Burkie said he won't do it even if it were to save his job.

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01-09-2013, 05:36 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Apparently Bobby Mac said Jake Gardiner is a non-starter.
Just a theory.

That is what Gillis was asking for, and that is what Burke refused to play. Nonis (and by Nonis I mean the suits) still have some time until season starts. They will still obviously try to get the best deal possible. They are just playing media games, like everyone else does.

Perhaps leaving Gardiner off the table is a non-starter for Gillis?

Gardiner is very much the target.

Just a theory.

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01-09-2013, 05:36 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Ok fair enough, but if that was the impetus to can him, why not do it in August? Why wait until the start of the season, or just before, and just before the Luongo hoopla was reaching critical mass? The timing is important here.



Change it to change the figurehead? Fine. Performance? Fine. But to do it now, just before the Luongo deal was going to come to a head... has to link the two together. It wasn't the sole factor, but it was a factor IMO. And in the opinions of Lebrun, Mirtle, Cox and Spector... who is now saying the deal will be done on Sunday.
Let's say they decided they no longer wanted Burke running the team back in early september....

When do you fire him?

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01-09-2013, 05:36 PM
  #275
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Sounds to me like they're simply trying to get Burke out as quietly as possible.
Quite possible. He isnt really known for doing things quietly.

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