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Dave Nonis TML GM|Burke retained as Senior Advisor to board - III

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Old
01-09-2013, 08:44 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
If by "lame" you mean legitimate reasons why the Leafs' listed success over the past decade is no more impressive than the Jays' lack of success, I agree with you.
lame excuses.

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01-09-2013, 08:45 PM
  #77
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I think he drafted Schneider, Edler, Hansen, Raymond and Hodgson. Obviously there must be others but I guess those are the notable ones.
Not Hodgson

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01-09-2013, 08:47 PM
  #78
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Maybe Nonis wanted to clear out the deadweight, and Burke wouldn't admit his wrong doing in the Connolly and Komisarek signings, and now Nonis is going to get rid of them and bring in truculence !

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01-09-2013, 08:48 PM
  #79
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Agree on the timing, as I'm struggling to come up with valid reasons why it took this long to finally happen.

But in fairness I thought it was a gigantic mistake signing him originally in the first place, and so it seems like its taken forever to finally push the reset button by MLSE.

You might be the same, but not since the Ballard era ending has a non player transaction met with this much approval for me.
I'm with you on this .

I remember when he was first hired someone in the media ( i can't remember who ) said him and Wilson would have a chance to succeed here if they put there egos aside and made it about the team and not themselves . I thought it was an odd thing to say but after 4 years of Burke and Wilson it's easy to see what he meant .

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01-09-2013, 08:50 PM
  #80
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You didn't approve of the JFJ firing?
Yes, very much so and other Leaf GMs and coaches of the past as well, but this one trumps that one.

I'm a results oriented guy that strongly believes in accountability for the performance of the team resides squarely on the shoulders of the GM in charge.

JFJ teams coming out of the lockout missed the playoffs by 3 points combined over 2 seasons combined and was justly fired for his failures to meet company objectives. Burke's teams missed the playoffs by 12, 14, 8 & 12 points after his 4 season and posted a below < .500 record on average over the course of his time here with only Edmonton, Columbus and NYI finishing below Toronto with less wins/points over that time.

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01-09-2013, 08:52 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I think he drafted Schneider, Edler, Hansen, Raymond and Hodgson. Obviously there must be others but I guess those are the notable ones.
I think he ran the 05,06,07 drafts so Bourdon, Grabner, and White which aren't too exciting, but they weren't high picks, and that result is likely more on the Director of Scouting. The trading or attempted trades are more telling.

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01-09-2013, 08:55 PM
  #82
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Poor excuse. 'Didn't want him to represent us' Burke imo is an elite gm, always been a fan of his work. I would have given him the season at least.

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01-09-2013, 08:57 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I'm with you on this .

I remember when he was first hired someone in the media ( i can't remember who ) said him and Wilson would have a chance to succeed here if they put there egos aside and made it about the team and not themselves . I thought it was an odd thing to say but after 4 years of Burke and Wilson it's easy to see what he meant .
I live in BC so unfortunately I was force feed enough of Burke's dog and pony show ego media antics to last a life time when he was Vancouver's GM.

Ulf and I use to battle and discuss this on other message boards before HF even existed yet, with fellow Canuck fans at that time.

He was the same in Toronto only much worse now as he didn't age graciously when it came to his brash, self centered, larger than life, pompous, arrogant, bombastic attitude that apparently rubbed Bell/Rogers the wrong way in a very short period of time.

His poor record as GM more than enough reason to be fired but Leaf Nation caught a break as apparently it was Burke's mouth that eventually sealed his own demise, as MLSE wanted to have a better corporate image representing them going forward..


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01-09-2013, 09:02 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Yes, very much so and other Leaf GMs and coaches of the past as well, but this one trumps that one.

I'm a results oriented guy that strongly believes in accountability for the performance of the team resides squarely on the shoulders of the GM in charge.

JFJ teams coming out of the lockout missed the playoffs by 3 points combined over 2 seasons combined and was justly fired for his failures to meet company objectives. Burke's teams missed the playoffs by 12, 14, 8 & 12 points after his 4 season and posted a below < .500 record on average over the course of his time here with only Edmonton, Columbus and NYI finishing below Toronto with less wins/points over that time.
Doesn't the current Leafs/Marlies have better and more promising young talent than JFJs teams ever had?

Aren't you the guy who preaches youth and playing the kids as well as patience?

Why only stare at numbers and results when you can look more indepth?

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01-09-2013, 09:04 PM
  #85
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This franchise is only losing fans for the most part, and what happened today will only further accelerate that.

Especially after that CBC report.


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01-09-2013, 09:05 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by leafers View Post
Doesn't the current Leafs/Marlies have better and more promising young talent than JFJs teams ever had?

Aren't you the guy who preaches youth and playing the kids as well as patience?

Why only stare at numbers and results when you can look more indepth?
When you trade picks and young assets for those "final pieces" at the deadline it comes with a cost.

The Leafs were a contender, and everyone wanted to go for it back then, although I think their goaltender covered up some deficiencies.

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01-09-2013, 09:11 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
This franchise is only losing fans for the most part, and what happened today will only further accelerate that.

Especially after that CBC report.

That`s cool maybe we`ll be able to get tickets pizza and beer for 20 bucks. Keep on MLSE.

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01-09-2013, 09:11 PM
  #88
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January 19th just can't come soon enough

However, once games start, what is over/under for # of games before "Lets go Blue Jays" chant start at ACC rink? I say 15.

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01-09-2013, 09:14 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
January 19th just can't come soon enough

However, once games start, what is over/under for # of games before "Lets go Blue Jays" chant start at ACC rink? I say 15.
First time the leafs get down by 3 or more goals. You can bet they're gonna hear it.

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01-09-2013, 09:14 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafers View Post
Doesn't the current Leafs/Marlies have better and more promising young talent than JFJs teams ever had?

Aren't you the guy who preaches youth and playing the kids as well as patience?

Why only stare at numbers and results when you can look more indepth?
Former Leaf GM Pat Quinn the predecessor to JFJ was even worse when it came to youth as he loved his vets and often used picks and prospects to his own betterment as both GM and coach.

A good GM in order to keep his job has to balance on ice success in the present in order to buy himself time to allow his draft picks time to develop. Burke's failures as GM to ice a competitive team in the present despite all the Kessel, Phaneuf, Giguere, Komisarek, Beauchemin, Lupul, Versteeg, Connolly, Armstrong etc etc big money quick fix attempts for immediate success in the end one of the factors why his own impatience and prospect pool no longer became an issue.

Prospects in the systems are still suspects until proven otherwise, and they don't put $$ in corporate pockets with missed playoff games when their not contributing to the team by not playing on it.

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01-09-2013, 09:15 PM
  #91
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First time the leafs get down by 3 or more goals. You can bet they're gonna hear it.
Absolutely.

First home game, and it's a stinker, you'll hear it quite a bit.

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01-09-2013, 09:15 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
January 19th just can't come soon enough

However, once games start, what is over/under for # of games before "Lets go Blue Jays" chant start at ACC rink? I say 15.
If the rumored deal for Lou goes through than I will take Training camp as the start of the chants.

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01-09-2013, 09:17 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Former Leaf GM Pat Quinn the predecessor to JFJ was even worse when it came to youth as he loved his vets and often used picks and prospects to his own betterment as both GM and coach.

A good GM in order to keep his job has to balance on ice success in the present in order to buy himself time to allow his draft picks time to develop. Burke's failures as GM to ice a competitive team in the present despite all the Kessel, Phaneuf, Giguere, Komisarek, Beauchemin, Lupul, Versteeg, Connolly, Armstrong etc etc big money quick fix attempts for immediate success in the end one of the factors why his own impatience and prospect pool no longer became an issue.
I'm with you Mess with regards to the timing and the sentiment etc.

I'm not thrilled that Burke was fired, I guess to rephrase, I would have been ok if Burke was fired and replaced by someone with a brand new direction. For that reason I'm a little disgruntled about the move.

I guess more importantly the one silver lining I can see in this signing is that Burke is no longer a lame Duck GM. I really hope Nonis is given some leash and a few years on his contract. Surely the GM should feel pressure to make the playoffs immediately, but I don't want it to be "job-saving, careless-move making pressure"

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01-09-2013, 09:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/prime_time_sports/

5 PM - Listen now - go to 3:45 for interview with Anselmi.
Listening now. Sounds like the board just didn't like Burke's attitude. That plus a poor performance = Bye bye.

If the team was doing well, they would overlook his attitude. But that wasn't the case.

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01-09-2013, 09:19 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
If by "lame" you mean legitimate reasons why the Leafs' listed success over the past decade is no more impressive than the Jays' lack of success, I agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Former Leaf GM Pat Quinn the predecessor to JFJ was even worse when it came to youth as he loved his vets and often used picks and prospects to his own betterment as both GM and coach.

A good GM in order to keep his job has to balance on ice success in the present in order to buy himself time to allow his draft picks time to develop. Burke's failures as GM to ice a competitive team in the present despite all the Kessel, Phaneuf, Giguere, Komisarek, Beauchemin, Lupul, Versteeg, Connolly, Armstrong etc etc big money quick fix attempts for immediate success in the end one of the factors why his own impatience and prospect pool no longer became an issue.

Prospects in the systems are still suspects until proven otherwise, and they don't put $$ in corporate pockets with missed playoff games when their not contributing to the team by not playing on it.
Former Leaf GM Pat Quinn missed the playoffs a grand total of ONCE in his 6 years with the team.

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01-09-2013, 09:20 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by LeeIs View Post
Listening now. Sounds like the board just didn't like Burke's attitude. That plus a poor performance = Bye bye.

If the team was doing well, they would overlook his attitude. But that wasn't the case.
Yeppir, if you`re going to talk the talk you gotta walk the walk.

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01-09-2013, 09:21 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by LeeIs View Post
Listening now. Sounds like the board just didn't like Burke's attitude. That plus a poor performance = Bye bye.

If the team was doing well, they would overlook his attitude. But that wasn't the case.
The concern among fans is not about board not liking Burke's attitude. Its mainly about CBC reporting that board members giving "hockey advice" to GM. If thats the case, there is definitely a reason to worry.

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01-09-2013, 09:23 PM
  #98
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Like is it just me or did Nonis not look really excited during the press conference. Almost seemed miserable even. I don't know if that's just his personality or not but I just found it off

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01-09-2013, 09:25 PM
  #99
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Like is it just me or did Nonis not look really excited during the press conference. Almost seemed miserable even. I don't know if that's just his personality or not but I just found it off
Kind of like a Prince hearing the King died, immediately stuffing the crown on him, and pushing him out to address the public.

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01-09-2013, 09:27 PM
  #100
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I'm with you Mess with regards to the timing and the sentiment etc.

I'm not thrilled that Burke was fired, I guess to rephrase, I would have been ok if Burke was fired and replaced by someone with a brand new direction.
For that reason I'm a little disgruntled about the move.

I guess more importantly the one silver lining I can see in this signing is that Burke is no longer a lame Duck GM. I really hope Nonis is given some leash and a few years on his contract. Surely the GM should feel pressure to make the playoffs immediately, but I don't want it to be "job-saving, careless-move making pressure"
I can certainly appreciate that point of view and position.

I think the lockout, shortened season, new Ownership and other timing issues are all reasons why going forward in the same direction with Nonis makes sense on the surface for MLSE. He knows the players, their value, the team needs and has all the inside knowledge required to hit the ground running due to the timing of this event. There really shouldn't be much of a speed bump, learning, transition period for MLSE that can hurt them by this move as it was rumoured Nonis was doing a large part of the GM work already behind the scenes for Toronto..

With that said I also believe because of all that I think Nonis is fully aware there is no honeymoon reprieve long leash adjustment excuse period here and results are expected from Ownership in much shorter order than a brand new GM and direction. They didn't want a full reset " clearing the slate" backwards direction but a building upon what has painstakingly taken all this time until now without playoffs during the current rebuild. IMO

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