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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:14 PM
  #801
Flair Hay
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One thing Leaf fans can take comfort in is Nonis won't sell the farm to save his own ass. There was huge pressure, especially from the media to go out and get Hossa or Richards his last year in Vancouver. He stuck to his guns, held on to Kesler, Edler, Schneider etc and pretty much lost his job for it when the team missed the playoffs.

Can't see him trading Gardiner no matter what. Even Kadri would be very tough to pry away.

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01-10-2013, 12:14 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Leafs could probably "St Louis/Nashville" themselves into the 2nd round with Luongo.. But it's no secret that our center depth is vomit inducing and may not be with a high pick.
So why not make the playoffs with a Luongo. Once you get there it becomes infinitely easier to convince top UFAs to play on your team...

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01-10-2013, 12:15 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Why would the Leafs trade Lupul?

I know everyone on HF has a hard-on for prospects but many don't pan out...
Because it's a fair trade-off in risk.

Lupul brings uncertainty about play and contract.

Luongo brings an aging goalie who may really hurt his team in 4/5 years.

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01-10-2013, 12:15 PM
  #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Leafs could probably "St Louis/Nashville" themselves into the 2nd round with Luongo.. But it's no secret that our center depth is vomit inducing and may not be with a high pick.
You never try and address a positional need in the draft. Those kids are years away, and the % chance of a draft pick panning out into a serviceable NHL player...let alone an impact player...is actually pretty darn low.

If you believe the Leafs have a desperate need at center...and I can appreciate why you do...you need to try and address it via a trade or FA signing. Which, yes, I know...easier said than done. I'd certainly stop adding Bozak to trade proposals and replace him with one of your plethora of wingers instead.

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01-10-2013, 12:17 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
One thing Leaf fans can take comfort in is Nonis won't sell the farm to save his own ass. There was huge pressure, especially from the media to go out and get Hossa or Richards his last year in Vancouver. He stuck to his guns, held on to Kesler, Edler, Schneider etc and pretty much lost his job for it when the team missed the playoffs.

Can't see him trading Gardiner no matter what. Even Kadri would be very tough to pry away.
if even Kadri isn't in the discussion then I'm done

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01-10-2013, 12:17 PM
  #806
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Anyone who believes Burke was fired solely because his team did not make the playoffs since he has been here needs a reality check or Google.

Anyway, back to Lu. Frattin or Franson, Bozak and a first that becomes a second if the Leafs miss the playoffs works for me.

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01-10-2013, 12:17 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Great post and something everyone outside of Vancouver believes. Toronto isn't desperate because they know their team can't win a Stanley Cup.
Exactly. I would LOVE to see which fan base Vancouver fans would start harassing if Toronto was 100% not interested in Luongo. Personally I have no interest. It sounds like Florida had the lukest of warm interests, as long as they didn't have to send anything of value back. They have Theodore short term, Markstrom longterm. They aren't desperate for a goalie. Philly? They have Bryzgalovs contract to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Honestly how about this hypothetical?

Lupul for Luongo..

I guess it rules out the Leafs chances at a high pick, but in theory it's a good hockey trade.
Not a bad suggestion in terms of it addressing a big need for Vancouver (size/skill and top 6 winger).

But I think this is a good year for us to unload, and then start to build. We have quite a bit of dead weight in terms of pending UFAs, all of whom are forwards, and most of which we should sell at the deadline. We have a 1st round pick that could very likely be a top 5 pick in a forward heavy draft. We have tons of cap space and going into next year, Kadri, Frattin, and a few others could help fill in the forward ranks.

Goaltending has to be addressed at some point, but I think we can wait it out. Luongo smells of desperation, lets just sell some assets this year, and wait until we can find a good longterm solution for goal.

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01-10-2013, 12:18 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
So why not make the playoffs with a Luongo. Once you get there it becomes infinitely easier to convince top UFAs to play on your team...
Excellent point!

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01-10-2013, 12:18 PM
  #809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Anyone who believes Burke was fired solely because his team did not make the playoffs since he has been here needs a reality check or Google.

Anyway, back to Lu. Frattin or Franson, Bozak and a first that becomes a second if the Leafs miss the playoffs works for me.
rather Frattin than franson, rather Kadri but I wouldnt mind this

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01-10-2013, 12:18 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
if even Kadri isn't in the discussion then I'm done
Yay! Then we don't need to talk about Luongo to the Leafs anymore, and you can go to one of the many other teams lining up to take his contract

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01-10-2013, 12:18 PM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Anyone who believes Burke was fired solely because his team did not make the playoffs since he has been here needs a reality check or Google.

Anyway, back to Lu. Frattin or Franson, Bozak and a first that becomes a second if the Leafs miss the playoffs works for me.
That's the deal that is on the edge of what both fan bases would consider I think. If that happened Canuck fans would be fine.

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01-10-2013, 12:18 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
So why not make the playoffs with a Luongo. Once you get there it becomes infinitely easier to convince top UFAs to play on your team...
Because UFAs are no guarantee and generally don't bring sustained success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
You never try and address a positional need in the draft. Those kids are years away, and the % chance of a draft pick panning out into a serviceable NHL player...let alone an impact player...is actually pretty darn low.

If you believe the Leafs have a desperate need at center...and I can appreciate why you do...you need to try and address it via a trade or FA signing. Which, yes, I know...easier said than done. I'd certainly stop adding Bozak to trade proposals and replace him with one of your plethora of wingers instead.
That's a fair point, but a lot has to go right to make the playoffs even with Luongo. We're a couple years away from losing our best player. Do we really not want to have any type of star caliber forwards in our system?
Bozak sucks. He managed 40 points with two of the leagues best forwards.. There's no doubt in my mind that Jay McClement would be a better 1st line option between Lupul and Kessel.

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01-10-2013, 12:19 PM
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
So why not make the playoffs with a Luongo. Once you get there it becomes infinitely easier to convince top UFAs to play on your team...
I don't believe that for a second.

Adding Luongo may help the Leafs make the playoffs. But I don't think that adding Luongo and making the playoffs isn going to make Toronto a more desirable destination for UFA's. I think the "fish-bowl" factor has a very strong influence on UFA's shying away from playing for the Leafs.

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01-10-2013, 12:19 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Unless he is the EXACT size of the net....that is NOT a gurantee. Our defence was horribad...both up front and on the backend. You simply cannot say that Luongo would have the same success here.
yes i can, and did

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01-10-2013, 12:19 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I think the one factor that hurts Luongo's value is that everyone knows Vancouver has to move him. It's almost a foregone conclusion that Luongo will no longer be a Canuck at the beginning of the 2013-2014 season.

If I were a GM of a team looking to upgrade my goaltending, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't kick the tires on Luongo. But I certainly wouldn't get roped into paying top dollar to get him. Every team that has been rumoured to have interest in Luongo has a pair of goalies that they can start the shortened season with in net.
While this seems logical in practice it really doesn't make a difference on value IMO. Any player that a GM is looking to move is put on the block for the majority of GM's to see so the fact that the media knows about Luongo doesn't change the fact that he's just like every other player in a trade scenario.

Phil Kessel was chastised by Julien and everyone in the world knew he was going to be moved, yet Boston got a great return. Then you look at Joe Thornton who for the most part wasn't shopped to every team and the return Boston got was mediocre and only turned out to be decent by the luck of drafting Lucic off a 2nd generation trade.

With that being said, I just cannot see Gillis trading Luongo for a return he does not see as fair. It's a business where reputation does mean a lot and you should not show weakness or you won't have a job for very long.

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01-10-2013, 12:20 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Exactly. I would LOVE to see which fan base Vancouver fans would start harassing if Toronto was 100% not interested in Luongo. Personally I have no interest. It sounds like Florida had the lukest of warm interests, as long as they didn't have to send anything of value back. They have Theodore short term, Markstrom longterm. They aren't desperate for a goalie. Philly? They have Bryzgalovs contract to worry about.



Not a bad suggestion in terms of it addressing a big need for Vancouver (size/skill and top 6 winger).

But I think this is a good year for us to unload, and then start to build. We have quite a bit of dead weight in terms of pending UFAs, all of whom are forwards, and most of which we should sell at the deadline. We have a 1st round pick that could very likely be a top 5 pick in a forward heavy draft. We have tons of cap space and going into next year, Kadri, Frattin, and a few others could help fill in the forward ranks.

Goaltending has to be addressed at some point, but I think we can wait it out. Luongo smells of desperation, lets just sell some assets this year, and wait until we can find a good longterm solution for goal.
Great post, agreed on everything.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:21 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Yay! Then we don't need to talk about Luongo to the Leafs anymore, and you can go to one of the many other teams lining up to take his contract
I'm fine with keeping him if nothing of value is offered, I'll have to settle for a Jenning winning tandom and we won't have an overworked goalie for this crammed season

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01-10-2013, 12:22 PM
  #818
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Bozak sucks. He managed 40 points with two of the leagues best forwards.. There's no doubt in my mind that Jay McClement would be a better 1st line option between Lupul and Kessel.
I'm aware of Bozak's limitations, but the fact he's centering your first line is one of the most cogent arguments you have about the situation regarding center depth in the organization. Remove him and a bad situation just gets worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Adding Luongo may help the Leafs make the playoffs. But I don't think that adding Luongo and making the playoffs isn going to make Toronto a more desirable destination for UFA's. I think the "fish-bowl" factor has a very strong influence on UFA's shying away from playing for the Leafs.
Fishbowls can be really fun to play in. When you're winning.

It wasn't that long ago Toronto was one of THE marquee destinations for free agents, and they weren't exactly lighting the world on fire. They were a middle tier team that won a playoff series here and there. Teams that lose all the time seem to acquire quite the reek on the FA market.

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01-10-2013, 12:22 PM
  #819
LickTheEnvelope
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I don't believe that for a second.

Adding Luongo may help the Leafs make the playoffs. But I don't think that adding Luongo and making the playoffs isn going to make Toronto a more desirable destination for UFA's. I think the "fish-bowl" factor has a very strong influence on UFA's shying away from playing for the Leafs.
Adding Luongo doesn't make TO a more desirable location... winning more games makes TO a more desirable location.

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01-10-2013, 12:22 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I don't believe that for a second.

Adding Luongo may help the Leafs make the playoffs. But I don't think that adding Luongo and making the playoffs isn going to make Toronto a more desirable destination for UFA's. I think the "fish-bowl" factor has a very strong influence on UFA's shying away from playing for the Leafs.
Tell that to Cujo, Belfour, Roberts, Mogilny, Nieuwendyk, etc. (I'm pretty sure they were all UFA signings, someone can correct me on one of them if needed).

Top UFAs don't want to sign here when the team sucks. But when the teams good, it's one of the best places to play, the players get treated like gods. We haven't had any impactful UFA signings since the lockout because we've been a bad team, but before that we had quite a few.

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01-10-2013, 12:23 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
That's the deal that is on the edge of what both fan bases would consider I think. If that happened Canuck fans would be fine.
Mind you I'm not a Canucks fan but I'd want Gillis to go for the throat. Gardiner or Rielly in the deal or no deal, and wait to see how far Nonis is going to stretch to avoid having those players in the deal.

He could put his 1st on the table unconditionally or stack up some B prospects. I don't think just taking whatever is fair right away after the CBA is finalized helps him all that much, and I don't see the problem with player this season with both goaltenders.

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01-10-2013, 12:24 PM
  #822
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You may be wishing for that but your ownership group is clearly growing impatient.

There is absolutely no indication that ownership is growing impatient. Burke was fired because the main guy at Bell didn't want him around, it was not a hockey related decision.

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01-10-2013, 12:25 PM
  #823
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if even Kadri isn't in the discussion then I'm done
If a deal does happen i would be VERY surprised if Kadri isnt involved. He needs a change in scenery, because the skill is there.

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01-10-2013, 12:25 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Tell that to Cujo, Belfour, Roberts, Mogilny, Nieuwendyk, etc. (I'm pretty sure they were all UFA signings, someone can correct me on one of them if needed).

Top UFAs don't want to sign here when the team sucks. But when the teams good, it's one of the best places to play, the players get treated like gods. We haven't had any impactful UFA signings since the lockout because we've been a bad team, but before that we had quite a few.
Do you remember what the other difference was? UNLIMITED MONEY

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01-10-2013, 12:25 PM
  #825
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Exactly. I would LOVE to see which fan base Vancouver fans would start harassing if Toronto was 100% not interested in Luongo. Personally I have no interest. It sounds like Florida had the lukest of warm interests, as long as they didn't have to send anything of value back. They have Theodore short term, Markstrom longterm. They aren't desperate for a goalie. Philly? They have Bryzgalovs contract to worry about.
1.) We would be taking offers on Schneider if there was no buyer for Lou.

2.) If there was no buyer for goalies at all we would keep them both for a cup run and take our chances next offseason.
3.) We are cap compliant this season with both goalies, they get along famously
4.) This is likely that last year we will be a top competitor for the cup. We either need to extend the window by getting top tier youngsters or get back players that help us in other areas THIS year

I can't fathom why this is so hard to understand.

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