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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:25 PM
  #826
MikeK
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Mind you I'm not a Canucks fan but I'd want Gillis to go for the throat. Gardiner or Rielly in the deal or no deal, and wait to see how far Nonis is going to stretch to avoid having those players in the deal.

He could put his 1st on the table unconditionally or stack up some B prospects. I don't think just taking whatever is fair right away after the CBA is finalized helps him all that much, and I don't see the problem with player this season with both goaltenders.
You are right. Vancouver makes the playoffs this year either way. Dealing him in the summer means more teams. There will be buyouts and trades to open up more avenues.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:26 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
Vorachek + Schenn for Luongo


People are really low balling the Value of Lou....Hes still one of the top goalies in the game....

Mayby his value goes down because his age and contract but Between the new amnesty clause and Philly is a cup contender now. I dont see what the problem is with Philly aquiring Lou, it would help them lots....Of course it would suck for my Isles but we cant beat them anyway...
While I don't think we'd be getting Voracek + Schenn, I basically agree with your sentiment.

People are forgetting that Luongo is by far the biggest impact player on the market right now. Especially to teams with only mediocre goaltending. Any one player of Philly's roster, excluding Giroux, for Luongo would make them a significantly better team.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:27 PM
  #828
LickTheEnvelope
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Goaltending has to be addressed at some point, but I think we can wait it out. Luongo smells of desperation, lets just sell some assets this year, and wait until we can find a good longterm solution for goal.
Pretty sure the Leafs have been "waiting out" that particular problem for quite a while...

Leaf's GAA rank last 10 years:
- 29th
- 25th
- 29th
- 30th
- 27th
- 25th
- 21st
-No Season
- 15th
- 10th

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:28 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
While this seems logical in practice it really doesn't make a difference on value IMO. Any player that a GM is looking to move is put on the block for the majority of GM's to see so the fact that the media knows about Luongo doesn't change the fact that he's just like every other player in a trade scenario.

Phil Kessel was chastised by Julien and everyone in the world knew he was going to be moved, yet Boston got a great return. Then you look at Joe Thornton who for the most part wasn't shopped to every team and the return Boston got was mediocre and only turned out to be decent by the luck of drafting Lucic off a 2nd generation trade.

With that being said, I just cannot see Gillis trading Luongo for a return he does not see as fair. It's a business where reputation does mean a lot and you should not show weakness or you won't have a job for very long.
I have no doubt that Gillis will stand his ground and demand the best possible deal to save face in this situation. While on the other hand, I wouldn't want to be known as the GM who paid the Vancouver Canucks a kings ransom to fix their own short-sighted contracting mistake.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:28 PM
  #831
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Schenn & Grossman for Luongo, Raymond?

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:30 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Tell that to Cujo, Belfour, Roberts, Mogilny, Nieuwendyk, etc. (I'm pretty sure they were all UFA signings, someone can correct me on one of them if needed).

Top UFAs don't want to sign here when the team sucks. But when the teams good, it's one of the best places to play, the players get treated like gods. We haven't had any impactful UFA signings since the lockout because we've been a bad team, but before that we had quite a few.
All this, thank you. When you win it's easier to keep winning.

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01-10-2013, 12:30 PM
  #833
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I have no doubt that Gillis will stand his ground and demand the best possible deal to save face in this situation. While on the other hand, I wouldn't want to be known as the GM who paid the Vancouver Canucks a kings ransom to fix their own short-sighted contracting mistake.
How about the GM who had the stones to make a trade that got his team into the playoffs for the first time in 8 years? I'd like to be that GM!

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:31 PM
  #834
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There is absolutely no indication that ownership is growing impatient. Burke was fired because the main guy at Bell didn't want him around, it was not a hockey related decision.
Oh yes, it was simply normal day to day business. Everything is fine in leaf land, has never been better.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:31 PM
  #835
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What don't you understand? Nonis said like 30 mins ago on HC that ownership has told him to keep improving the club but the playoffs are not a mandate, he's not forced to make the playoffs. People love to put it out there like it's playoffs or your fired, it's not like that.
Because Nonis is going to go on the radio and say, "If I don't make the playoffs I'm fired. All of our players are on the table. Come steal from us, GM's."

It wasn't too long ago most Leafs fans around here were saying Burke could miss the playoffs this season and he still wouldn't be fired.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:32 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
So I've got a bit more familiar with the Leafs roster through this and it's a really strange situation. They have a prime aged team with a pretty mediocre prospect pool (outside of Reilly), yet the fans want a full rebuild? If you blow this up, you're looking at a solid 5 years before you're competeing, is this the plan?

Seems like there are 3 options:

1. Status quo: Go with this roster, try to re-sign Kessel and Lupul, find a goalie next year and likely get a high pick. Problems? Another year of losing and really just spinning tires. Do Kessel and Lupul want to re-sign in this scenario? Will have a lot of cap space, but in the NHL's current environment, we're not seeing a lot of impact players hit UFA, and when they do there are a lot of bidders. Lots of teams have cap space, and with the amnesty clauses coming in, teams have no need to dump salary. Another year of spinning tires will not attract big names. Losing in a Canadian market is not a lot of fun.

2. Total re-build: I'll give Edmonton credit, they made it clear to the fans that they were blowing it up and they had to be patient, fans accepted that and they are starting to reap the benefits about 5 years later. Seems like this is what Leafs fans on here want to do, but do they also want to say goodbye to their roster? Settle in for 5 years of terrible hockey? And that's if things go right? It's a hell of a risk and one I'm not convinced their ownership is happy to take. They have 0 playoff games since the last lockout. Even in Toronto, how long can this continue?

3. Trade for Luongo: I personally think he'd instantly become the face of the franchise and perhaps get them into the playoffs. Their roster is peak aged right now, so this move makes some sense. The risk? Could backfire, and if they give up too much could hurt them in the future. Maybe back to spinning their wheels.

Hard to say, strange situation in Toronto and some very big descions ahead for Nonis.
I don't see that.

Leafs have good offense, okay defense and abysmal goaltending and penalty-killing.

They got McClement to help a bit with the PK and they probably need one more top PKing forward, winger, then they need a top 6 center and a #1 goalie.

Get those and wait for some of the young d to develop and they should be just fine.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:32 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I have no doubt that Gillis will stand his ground and demand the best possible deal to save face in this situation. While on the other hand, I wouldn't want to be known as the GM who paid the Vancouver Canucks a kings ransom to fix their own short-sighted contracting mistake.
Not sure, but of the two teams, one still has the same GM, and at the signing of the contract it was the right thing to do. No one knew Schnieder would turn out the way he did.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:34 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Because Nonis is going to go on the radio and say, "If I don't make the playoffs I'm fired. All of our players are on the table. Come steal from us, GM's."

It wasn't too long ago most Leafs fans around here were saying Burke could miss the playoffs this season and he still wouldn't be fired.
So true

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:34 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by struckmatch View Post
Schenn & Grossman for Luongo, Raymond?
doesn't really make sense, we don't need help on D as of right now and I doubt Philly wants to lose a shutdown guy

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:35 PM
  #840
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Schenn & Grossman for Luongo, Raymond?
You know there are TWO Schenn's in Philly right? You need to be specific.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:36 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Because Nonis is going to go on the radio and say, "If I don't make the playoffs I'm fired. All of our players are on the table. Come steal from us, GM's."

It wasn't too long ago most Leafs fans around here were saying Burke could miss the playoffs this season and he still wouldn't be fired.
Burke wasn't fired because of the team's on-ice fortunes, he was fired because George Cope decided to do his best Harold Ballard impression.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:37 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by phillipsj89 View Post
yes i can, and did
So in your mind, Luongo posts the same numbers with this Leaf roster than he did with the Canucks?

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:37 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Pretty sure the Leafs have been "waiting out" that particular problem for quite a while...

Leaf's GAA rank last 10 years:
- 29th
- 25th
- 29th
- 30th
- 27th
- 25th
- 21st
-No Season
- 15th
- 10th
Oh I'm fully aware of the longterm goaltending issues with Toronto (as well as team defence issues). But Luongo simply isn't the answer IMO.

By the time the team in front of him (if he were acquired) was ready to actually compete for the Stanley Cup, he would likely already be ~37 or so. Which would give us a couple years in which we could actually compete before looking for a goalie all over again.

I'd prefer to find a younger one. The Leafs also have to actually try drafting a goalie, and do it with something higher than a 7th round pick. The last three times we've drafted a goalie with a higher pick, it produced Rask, Reimer, and Pogge. Two NHLers, one of whom is very likely a future all-star. Not bad for three picks.

We've only drafted goalies 5 times in the last 10 years. It's way better to have LAs situation where you might have to trade a young high end goalie vs Torontos situation where you're spinning your wheels for a decade because you don't have one.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:38 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Because Nonis is going to go on the radio and say, "If I don't make the playoffs I'm fired. All of our players are on the table. Come steal from us, GM's."

It wasn't too long ago most Leafs fans around here were saying Burke could miss the playoffs this season and he still wouldn't be fired.
And to be fair, they changed ownership.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:38 PM
  #845
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I wish PHI were a realistic trade partner because they have some players Vancouver would be interested in.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:38 PM
  #846
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I don't see that.

Leafs have good offense, okay defense and abysmal goaltending and penalty-killing.

They got McClement to help a bit with the PK and they probably need one more top PKing forward, winger, then they need a top 6 center and a #1 goalie.

Get those and wait for some of the young d to develop and they should be just fine.
Thats a fair assessment. Hopefully Mcclement can help turn our PK around as Av's speak highly of his defensive game. And i think the aquisition of a bonified #1 goalie fixes not only that but helps our overall defensive play. Im just worried that if we aquire Luo we only further open the whole at center. Nonis better have a plan if he pulls the trigger on Luo.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:39 PM
  #847
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Burke wasn't fired because of the team's on-ice fortunes, he was fired because George Cope decided to do his best Harold Ballard impression.
Exactly. Yet some Canuck fans seem to have all the answers.

Don't you know Burke was fired because his team missed the playoffs again? They just waited three days before training camp to officially do it.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:39 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
Vorachek + Schenn for Luongo


People are really low balling the Value of Lou....Hes still one of the top goalies in the game....

Mayby his value goes down because his age and contract but Between the new amnesty clause and Philly is a cup contender now. I dont see what the problem is with Philly aquiring Lou, it would help them lots....Of course it would suck for my Isles but we cant beat them anyway...
Everything you said is off.

Philly would never ever give Jake and Schenn ( which one, btw?) for loungo. Also, we already have an old goalie with an obnoxious contract.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:39 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Anyone who believes Burke was fired solely because his team did not make the playoffs since he has been here needs a reality check or Google.

Anyway, back to Lu. Frattin or Franson, Bozak and a first that becomes a second if the Leafs miss the playoffs works for me.
Doesn't work for me. Not enough value back for Luongo.

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Old
01-10-2013, 12:39 PM
  #850
struckmatch
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You know there are TWO Schenn's in Philly right? You need to be specific.
Sorry my bad...

Brayden Schenn was the one I was referring too.

The above poster is right through, I'd rather get two forwards and get a depth defenseman later in the year.

Luongo, Raymond for B. Schenn & Read?

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