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Old
01-11-2013, 01:17 AM
  #76
hockeywiz542
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http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/10...already-poised

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“Last year, it became evident there were players who didn’t play to expectations,” Nonis said. “Either they have to, or you change some of them. Our coaches will go with Step 1 for now. Randy Carlyle was very clear about that at the end of last year and will be again in a few days. We had guys who played (hard) 60 games or 55 and that’s not good enough. We’re not deep enough for that.”

That said, Nonis isn’t going to make a bold Burke-style prediction of playoff fortune. He claims he’s not getting that kind of heat from Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, at least not yet. He insists all they’ve asked for is tangible evidence of progress in the coming 48-game schedule.

“We have to add pieces,” Nonis said. “Our ownership wants a team that wins — and wins for a long time — that the people will be very proud of. It hasn’t been ‘make the playoffs or else’. In the end, winning and making the playoffs go hand-in-hand.”

Nor can Nonis give up the chase. The notoriously streaky Leafs might use the short schedule to their advantage and just maybe end that seven-season curse that’s denied the Air Canada Centre of playoff revenue.

Nonis intends to do that without touching the re-stocked draft cupboard just yet, something the Vancouver Canucks hoped might happen in a Roberto Luongo deal.

“We have to push (for the playoffs), but not at the expense of moving a Rielly (or Jake Gardiner). We would only move a young player for a young player. We can’t put the building blocks in place and then blow them up.”

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01-11-2013, 01:26 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Crispy Crust View Post
Would anyone be upset about that outcome lol?
thats the best case scenerio imo. (well signing getz+perry) and having a lineup like this:

jvr-getz-perry
lupul-mackinnon-kessel
dont care dont care dont care

looks amazing to me

(all this and dont really need to give up anything :S woah, lets not get our hopes up tho)

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01-11-2013, 02:25 AM
  #78
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I hope Nonis told ownership that unless they wanted to fire their 2nd GM in 2 days to shut the heck up and let his do his job.

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01-11-2013, 02:47 AM
  #79
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they may not push to do it but I still think he land luongo before season begins

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01-11-2013, 03:11 AM
  #80
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This is what I would think Nonis would offer

To Van: Bozak, 3rd

To Toronto: Luongo, Quarter pounder with cheese/bacon

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01-11-2013, 04:07 AM
  #81
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Nice try... Rogers Sportsnet. Trying to trick us into thinking youre not meddling

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01-11-2013, 04:15 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
We have 3 Trade Chips right now.

1. Lupul - his value will NEVER be higher. - Personally I think he's useless - doesn't hit - has no size - lacks toughness - isn't a skilled offensive player - he's a defensive liability - he doesn't get along with our coach and vice versa - all in all he's a poor mans Scott Hartnell.

2. Kessel - again his value will never be higher ... expect his production to drop significantly without the help of Wilsons "DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WHENEVER YOU WANT" System ... expect problems with Carlysle to increase - as his icetime will be cut should he continue to not play defensive. All in all his time in Toronto has been a cake-walk - it will get sour very quickly. Trade him before you become desperate and HAVE to move him.

3. Kadri - Is he a 3rd line Grinding Defensive specialist? No - he was drafted to be a 1/2C ... can you be a competitive hockey team with Both Grabo/Kadri playing down the Middle? My money's on no. So trade him - his value will only drop watching him get frustrated burried on our teams 3rd line playing 12minutes a night and putting up 20-30 points. Move him for an asset you can utilize appropriately.
This.. is quite possibly the most foolish stuff I've ever read.

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01-11-2013, 05:27 AM
  #83
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I would hope not. I do find it funny how people were so sure Burke would never do such a thing when judging by his history he definitely shows a willingness to trade a high price of young talent for a player he wants.
His history since day one showed quite clearly that he was unwilling to part with any higher end prospects or young players for veteran help. Can you think of a single instance where he did such a thing? The two closest you'll find had him trading for a 21 year old and trading for #2 overall, neither of which fit the notion of trading higher end prospects or young players for veteran help.

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01-11-2013, 06:03 AM
  #84
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The apathy I feel regarding the NHL in general s strong. If they think I am going to bother watching a crappy team for another year without bothering to put a good product on the ice, they are fooling themselves. I'm not 15 with a hard on for prospects like the majority here. The goal is to win, not collect prospects. The Blue Jays have figured that out (or at least they are giving it a shot). Fix the team and NOT another 5 year BS try again plan. The problem with those is no one knows until its too late if its going to work. Never thought they could make the Leafs irrelevant to me. Congrats guys!

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01-11-2013, 06:42 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
His history since day one showed quite clearly that he was unwilling to part with any higher end prospects or young players for veteran help. Can you think of a single instance where he did such a thing? The two closest you'll find had him trading for a 21 year old and trading for #2 overall, neither of which fit the notion of trading higher end prospects or young players for veteran help.
Edmonton Oilers traded Chris Pronger to the Anaheim Ducks for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, a 1st round selection in 2007, a conditional 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection in 2008 for a 32 year old Pronger.

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01-11-2013, 06:47 AM
  #86
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i actually trust the new owners and how they plan to run MLSE based upon how rogers has run the jays, that is if bell agrees also.
Irrelevant for the last decade?

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01-11-2013, 06:48 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Edmonton Oilers traded Chris Pronger to the Anaheim Ducks for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, a 1st round selection in 2007, a conditional 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection in 2008 for a 32 year old Pronger.
Lol, really? Grasping much?

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01-11-2013, 06:57 AM
  #88
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There is no rush in getting Luongo. He might make us a bubble playoff team. He would ensure a pick outside of this year's top 10 however. He will still be available in the offseason when the asking price will be lowered.
Maybe if we draft top 3 this year, trade for Luongo in the summer then Getzlaf or Perry may kick the tires here in Toronto and sign.

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01-11-2013, 07:03 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Edmonton Oilers traded Chris Pronger to the Anaheim Ducks for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, a 1st round selection in 2007, a conditional 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection in 2008 for a 32 year old Pronger.
That trade helped him win a cup. Not exactly the best example.

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01-11-2013, 07:06 AM
  #90
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BUT I WANT TO BELIEVE THERE'S A CONSPIRACY THAT THE OWNERS ARE MEDDLING.

I. Want. To. Believe.


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01-11-2013, 07:07 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Edmonton Oilers traded Chris Pronger to the Anaheim Ducks for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, a 1st round selection in 2007, a conditional 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection in 2008 for a 32 year old Pronger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
That trade helped him win a cup. Not exactly the best example.
Yea... that's actually an example of WHEN you should make that type of trade. The Kessel deal was obviously a bad decision with some longterm repercussions.

But I wouldn't necessarily say Burke has a history of trading away top picks and prospects. Teams on the cusp of winning a Cup should definitely consider moving a 1st round pick and a player or two in order to acquire one of the top D in the league who has 6+ years left of high level play left in him. It was a great move.

They won the Cup AND a few years later turned around and moved Pronger for Lupul , Sbisa, two 1sts and a 3rd. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think those 1sts turned into Etem and Palmieri, two of their top prospects. So they even recouped ~half of what they had given up anyways.

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01-11-2013, 07:10 AM
  #92
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I am not saying he is wrong for the pronger deal I am just showing you that Burke is willing to trade hordes of young talent for a veteran player. If he thought Luongo was the final piece to a cup why would he not trade players like Gardiner for him? It worked for him before in Anaheim.

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01-11-2013, 07:12 AM
  #93
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There's a difference between tanking and having a poor/imcomplete team. Tanking = selling off your assets (for draft picks) to intentionally put a crappy team on ice in order to ensure high draft picks for consecutive seasons. Oilers, Hawks, Pens, etc.

I can't remember when that's happened on the Leafs.
Antropov to Rangers for pick
Stempniak to Coyotes for picks
Ponikarovsky to Penguins for Caputi
Kaberle to Bruins for Colborne and picks

They kind of look like transactions that weaken the team.

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01-11-2013, 07:14 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
I am not saying he is wrong for the pronger deal I am just showing you that Burke is willing to trade hordes of young talent for a veteran player. If he thought Luongo was the final piece to a cup why would he not trade players like Gardiner for him? It worked for him before in Anaheim.
I think just about anyone would be willing to trade 1st's and prospects if they really believed they were close. Good example, Quinn and the Nolan trade.


You don't really believe Burke thought the team was close to winning a cup?

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01-11-2013, 07:17 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
My version is a little different.

1. Tank and draft BPA
2. Trade Connolly, CMac, Lombardi, Bozak, Steckel, Komisarek and Franson between now and the deadline for picks/very young prospects. Open negotiations with Lupul and if he doesn't reink by deadline deal him.
3. Gasp and hopefully this doesn't happen but even look at dealing Phaneuf, Kessel, Kulemin if they're indications that they wouldn't want to reink. Most likely we don't have to deal any of them before the summer
4. Acquire a goalie via free agency like Backstrom, Howard, Smith or via trade with high potential like a Markstrom, Holtby, Lehner, Bernier but on our trading terms. Not like what is going on with Luongo that would require giving up good assets.
5. Sign Ranger
6. Sign one of the top free agents
7. Most tradeable pieces with value in the summer in a package deal will be Kadri, Gunnarson, Kulemin and picks that aren't our first. It'd suck to loss these guys but if we could get say a Patrick Sharp or other 4 to 6 million dollar player that is a high end 2nd liner we have to give something up
8. Spend to the cap
9. Plan on Rielly and our 1st pick making the team next year
Maybe you would like Scarlett Johanssen leaving snail trails down the hood of your new Ferrari to go with that?

I knew we had a lot of crazy fans before but my goodness the lockout seems to have given everybody aneurysms. Classics like "Trading Kadri for Luongo would be overpayment" are truly priceless.

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Old
01-11-2013, 07:17 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
I think just about anyone would be willing to trade 1st's and prospects if they really believed they were close. Good example, Quinn and the Nolan trade.


You don't really believe Burke thought the team was close to winning a cup?
Well, he did think the team he inherited was 1 scorer away from a play off team. My point still remains, I was asked for a single example of a high talent cost for a veteran acquisition and I gave one.

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01-11-2013, 07:19 AM
  #97
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I really, really hope this is true. It's a short season, tanking will be relatively painless, and with no moves we should finish with a pretty high pick. The top of this draft is absolutely loaded, MacKinnon/Jones/Drouin/Lindholm/Barkov/Monahan would all be top 3 picks most years, and four of them are centres. This is a GREAT opportunity to get a young #1 centre, all we have to do is hold off on a goalie trade for 48 games (or however long this season is going to be).

On the other hand, this is the complete opposite of how MLSE has always acted, even when they're supposedly "fine with a rebuild." I'm more than a little sceptical that they won't push Nonis to make some headline grabbing move that will drive single season revenues.
It is MLSE in name only.

Bell and Rogers have only owned MLSE for a few months, and haven't been allowed to do anything anyway.

What if their team believes in being patient? What if they believe in building through the lottery?

Why not give them as much time as some gave Burke?

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01-11-2013, 07:22 AM
  #98
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Well, he did think the team he inherited was 1 scorer away from a play off team. My point still remains, I was asked for a single example of a high talent cost for a veteran acquisition and I gave one.
1 scorer away from a playoff team and 1 player away from a cup are two very different things.

I wasn't denying your point as you provided what was asked of you. I just thought it was a bad example as Pronger was an integral part of the Ducks cup.

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01-11-2013, 07:22 AM
  #99
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Yup we Tanked - and Burke traded the Lottery Picks ... Biggest Idiot to run a hockey club since Mike Milbury.
lol Only idiots think they can run a hockey club better than qualified people and ones who actually won a cup

I wonder what you'd think if the Leafs still pulled the trigger on Luongo and see if you'd still be blaming Burke for it

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01-11-2013, 07:24 AM
  #100
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It is MLSE in name only.

Bell and Rogers have only owned MLSE for a few months, and haven't been allowed to do anything anyway.

What if their team believes in being patient? What if they believe in building through the lottery?

Why not give them as much time as some gave Burke?
I really hope that they give twice as much time. A little stability and consistency for this team would be a step in the right direction.

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