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Old
01-11-2013, 07:29 AM
  #101
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I hope Nonis told ownership that unless they wanted to fire their 2nd GM in 2 days to shut the heck up and let his do his job.
Because it would be so difficult to find another GM who would sign for only $3 million a year and run a team with no demands from half the fans to make the playoffs?

Nonis track record isn't what I'd call earth shattering. He'd be easy to replace, the Canucks did it with an agent.

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01-11-2013, 07:44 AM
  #102
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That trade helped him win a cup. Not exactly the best example.
And that's the thing when you trade assets for players like Leetch and Nolan and it doesn't work out, someone else is left to pick up the pieces.

However, if it does work out you can say, Yes Pronger cost the Ducks 4 first round picks and a 2nd., but they won the Cup.

Only one team wins the Cup, no matter how many teams trade for the missing piece(s) at the trade deadline.

Without the lock-out last time the Leafs would have had Leetch for 2 years, not just one playoffs run. We can thank Bettman for how that trade turned out.

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01-11-2013, 07:44 AM
  #103
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"He insists all theyíve asked for is tangible evidence of progress in the coming 48-game schedule."

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/10...already-poised

This is a concerning statement.

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01-11-2013, 08:00 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
"He insists all theyíve asked for is tangible evidence of progress in the coming 48-game schedule."

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/10...already-poised

This is a concerning statement.
Its a polite PC way of saying "Make the playoffs or else."

Bell/Rogers are in this to make money and playoff dates bring in money.

From Cox today:

Quote:
So as he takes over the Leafs, Nonis has to be wondering if heíll get a fair shot at turning this club into a winner.

Heís not likely to make dramatic alterations in the overall philosophy and approach. In fact, he was often the voice of caution with Burke, constantly pushing the agenda to go younger and avoid short-term infusions of talent.

Rogers and Bell, however, may have something more aggressive in mind. They bought this sports property to supply rich content for their broadcast outlets, and non-playoff teams without big-name stars make it hard to attract eyeballs and attentive ears.

Interestingly, Nonis was one of the people interviewed by Toronto lawyer Gord Kirke back in the spring/summer of 2008 when Kirke headed a GM search committee for the Leafs. Ultimately, Nonisís suggestion that the proper approach would likely mean another four or five years out of post-season play didnít appeal to the Leafs, and in November the team hired Burke.

Well, Nonisís philosophies havenít changed, and itís unlikely he will look at the current Leaf roster and depth chart and see this team as a piece or two away from being a contender.

If he wants to take the slow and steady approach and ownership just wants a playoff date or two, there could be a conflict here.

Weíll see. Maybe Bell and Rogers will back off now, do the right thing and let Nonis do the job.

Itís going to be challenging enough without interference from the top.

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Old
01-11-2013, 08:08 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Yea... that's actually an example of WHEN you should make that type of trade. The Kessel deal was obviously a bad decision with some longterm repercussions.

But I wouldn't necessarily say Burke has a history of trading away top picks and prospects. Teams on the cusp of winning a Cup should definitely consider moving a 1st round pick and a player or two in order to acquire one of the top D in the league who has 6+ years left of high level play left in him. It was a great move.

They won the Cup AND a few years later turned around and moved Pronger for Lupul , Sbisa, two 1sts and a 3rd. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think those 1sts turned into Etem and Palmieri, two of their top prospects. So they even recouped ~half of what they had given up anyways.
Quick, name all the similarities between Kessel and Pronger.

It's amazing how many people neglect the fact that he was 21 at the time of the trade.

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01-11-2013, 08:10 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
It is MLSE in name only.

Bell and Rogers have only owned MLSE for a few months, and haven't been allowed to do anything anyway.

What if their team believes in being patient? What if they believe in building through the lottery?

Why not give them as much time as some gave Burke?
Well, if the Jays are what we have to go by, we know Rogers is patient...... Very patient.....

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01-11-2013, 08:11 AM
  #107
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I really hope that they give twice as much time. A little stability and consistency for this team would be a step in the right direction.
I hope so too, but I have this horrible feeling that's not the case.

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01-11-2013, 08:15 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
Dave Nonis was interviewed this afternoon on Sportsnet (Fan 590) by Kypreos, Mallard and MacLean.

After the interview, the panel stated they did not get the impression that ownership was pushing Dave Nonis to make a push for Luongo and the playoffs. Kypreos stated that it seems like ownership is pushing Nonis to "do it right". They mentioned that it seems like the quality of talent in the 2013 NHL Draft is a big thing for ownership.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/podcasts/

"Hockey Centrel @ Noon - Thursday"
Okay this is giving me the happy feelings. I jokingly posted about ownership wanting to get a MacKinnon/Drouin combo for the future a few days ago. Maybe it isn't that extreme but it sounds they are at least thinking that way. Makes me happy.

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01-11-2013, 08:21 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Quick, name all the similarities between Kessel and Pronger.

It's amazing how many people neglect the fact that he was 21 at the time of the trade.
Exactly.

Veteran Pronger cost twice as much, was an award winning, team leader, impact player. The Ducks already had some emerging forwards in the system, and had been to the SCF only a few year prior. Ducks had a proven goaltender, and had already landed another award winning, multiple Cup winning defender prior to sending those assets off to Edmonton. The deal had a conditional first rounder involved.

Kessel, was not a team leader, had suffered some health problems, but showed potential to be a good offensive player. He was very young, coming off his ELC.

Two different types of deals, for two different types of players.

One trade worked out, one was a worst case scenario. But poop happens, but they do say being pooped on by a bird is good luck so what do I know.

Kessel is going to be a key player on a winning team somewhere, but we do know he's a shy person, who'll do better in someone's shadow. We should not hang failure on his shoulders, but on the inability of the team to provide that stud forward to lead the team.

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01-11-2013, 08:25 AM
  #110
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Yay I hope the Luongo talk dies now. If Burke was going to do the deal. I'm glad he got the boot. Keep drafting and sign ufa's. Trading notnearly as important as when teams basically owned a player forever.

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01-11-2013, 08:34 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Exactly.

Veteran Pronger cost twice as much, was an award winning, team leader, impact player. The Ducks already had some emerging forwards in the system, and had been to the SCF only a few year prior. Ducks had a proven goaltender, and had already landed another award winning, multiple Cup winning defender prior to sending those assets off to Edmonton. The deal had a conditional first rounder involved.

Kessel, was not a team leader, had suffered some health problems, but showed potential to be a good offensive player. He was very young, coming off his ELC.

Two different types of deals, for two different types of players.

One trade worked out, one was a worst case scenario. But poop happens, but they do say being pooped on by a bird is good luck so what do I know.

Kessel is going to be a key player on a winning team somewhere, but we do know he's a shy person, who'll do better in someone's shadow. We should not hang failure on his shoulders, but on the inability of the team to provide that stud forward to lead the team.
Can't really disagree with any of this except that again, Kessel was a 21 year old budding superstar. This is in no way selling the farm for aged vet for a stab at the Cup.

It was very much a move for the future, as we're most of Burkes moves in Toronto.

The Luongo deal (rumoured deal) in no way fit in to any 'pattern' our good friend dreamed up.

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01-11-2013, 08:36 AM
  #112
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rebuild

I wish

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Old
01-11-2013, 08:37 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Yay I hope the Luongo talk dies now. If Burke was going to do the deal. I'm glad he got the boot. Keep drafting and sign ufa's. Trading notnearly as important as when teams basically owned a player forever.
We'll see, I wouldn't be surprised if Bobby Lou was a Leaf come Monday.

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01-11-2013, 08:37 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Edmonton Oilers traded Chris Pronger to the Anaheim Ducks for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, a 1st round selection in 2007, a conditional 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection in 2008 for a 32 year old Pronger.
We're talking Toronto Maple Leafs. Even if we weren't, do you want to point to a move that was a big reason for securing his team a Cup?

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01-11-2013, 08:44 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
And that's the thing when you trade assets for players like Leetch and Nolan and it doesn't work out, someone else is left to pick up the pieces.

However, if it does work out you can say, Yes Pronger cost the Ducks 4 first round picks and a 2nd., but they won the Cup.

Only one team wins the Cup, no matter how many teams trade for the missing piece(s) at the trade deadline.

Without the lock-out last time the Leafs would have had Leetch for 2 years, not just one playoffs run. We can thank Bettman for how that trade turned out.
It isn't just "but they won the Cup", the guy was instrumental in it, forming one of the best 1-2 in the history of the game. Even if they didn't win the Cup, that's a solid addition just like Kessel is a solid addition.

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01-11-2013, 08:46 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
It isn't just "but they won the Cup", the guy was instrumental in it, forming one of the best 1-2 in the history of the game. Even if they didn't win the Cup, that's a solid addition just like Kessel is a solid addition.
It's also a totally different trade. They are not similar in the least...

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01-11-2013, 08:56 AM
  #117
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1. Tank.
2. Trade Joffrey Lupul, Cody Franson and Clarke MacArthur.
3. Draft Nathan MacKinnon, Elias Lindholm or Alexander Barkov.
4. Trade for Roberto Luongo at the draft (Kadri, Bozak)
5. Sign Corey Perry, Paul Ranger and David Clarkson.

Going into 2013/14...

Perry - MacKinnon - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - Kulemin
Komarov - Colborne - Clarkson
Brown - McClement - Ashton

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Ranger
Liles - Holzer
Kostka

Luongo
Reimer
How much cap would we have left though? I would like a better 3C and an upgrade on gunnar on the first pairing. Ranger on the third pairing until he proves himself in the nhl

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01-11-2013, 08:56 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
We're talking Toronto Maple Leafs. Even if we weren't, do you want to point to a move that was a big reason for securing his team a Cup?
Once again, he asked for 1 example of Burke dealing multiple young assets for a veteran and I gave one. No point breaking down the semantics of it.

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01-11-2013, 09:01 AM
  #119
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Once again, he asked for 1 example of Burke dealing multiple young assets for a veteran and I gave one. No point breaking down the semantics of it.
So you had nothing?

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01-11-2013, 09:07 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
So you had nothing?

I showed that he paid 3 high draft picks and at the time 2 top prospects in one trade for a veteran player. At face value Burke has indeed been willing to do a "Luongo" type trade in the past.

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01-11-2013, 09:14 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
I showed that he paid 3 high draft picks and at the time 2 top prospects in one trade for a veteran player. At face value Burke has indeed been willing to do a "Luongo" type trade in the past.
Was this conversation about the Ducks or the Leafs?

Can you give examples of him doing this kinda trade for the Leafs? Or are you purposefully being dense because you know your 'trend' was bogus and irrelevant for this team?

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01-11-2013, 09:21 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Was this conversation about the Ducks or the Leafs?

Can you give examples of him doing this kinda trade for the Leafs? Or are you purposefully being dense because you know your 'trend' was bogus and irrelevant for this team?
Classy post. I won't try, you can't argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and beat you with years of experience.

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01-11-2013, 09:26 AM
  #123
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Maybe the owners wanted Burke to TANK! Hence the pick being so valuable. Burke obviously would want none of that.

Maybe Burke had a trade in the works involving the 1st rounder and wanted nothing to do with their advice and told them to F off.

Maybe a combination of both...
I think there is a real possibility that this is true.

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01-11-2013, 09:28 AM
  #124
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"they won the cup"
by this argument, any team that doesn't win the cup have lost every trade and signing they've ever made.

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01-11-2013, 09:29 AM
  #125
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Classy post. I won't try, you can't argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and beat you with years of experience.
So you got nothing... Got it....
Speaking of patterns, the guy we have now actually did trade for Lu in the past. Guess he's as good as traded.


Last edited by The Apologist: 01-11-2013 at 09:34 AM.
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