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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-11-2013, 07:47 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
i didnt drag you into the thread, buddy
Thats what I don't get if you guys don't like what we want for Luongo why bother still coming to the thread? Its obvious Vancouver & its fans aren't giving Luongo away. No matter how much you try to ware down the fans with your awful offers that won't change.

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01-11-2013, 07:48 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
That's your opinion.

My asking price has been the same, value of:
Roster player
good prospect
1st

For Toronto, something like Bozak, Kadri, 1st/Finn and a 2nd

Ok.

So the best offer from Toronto is Connolly (retain 50% salary), Kadri, and a 2nd.

What do you do?

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01-11-2013, 07:48 PM
  #328
racerjoe
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thread has turned to ****, or maybe I'm just realizing it now

gone
Been that way for a long time. Some reason so hard to actually leave... good luck.

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01-11-2013, 07:49 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Ok.

So the best offer from Toronto is Connolly (retain 50% salary), Kadri, and a 2nd.

What do you do?
Send him to FLA where he will be happy, and I think even their worst offer would be close.

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01-11-2013, 07:50 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I think it's fairly neutral. The team acquiring him won't be on the hook for much cap hit of he retires early.
According to the CBA vancouver will be on the hook if he retires early. Those last 3 years of 1 mill are 4.6 less than his aav. I think that is what the cap hit will be for the canucks for the 3 years.

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01-11-2013, 07:50 PM
  #331
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Very true. That makes him a $5Million dollar player in Toronto.
Your little potshots at the Leafs are really cute. With your cockiness, I am sure you have seen at least one parade in your lifetime, unlike me. Cheers to you.

Oh, wait.....

The Canucks have a window of a few years, and they had better capitalize, as much as the rest of the hockey world hopes they don't. You might want to look at your own prospect pool, because once the sisters are washed up, so are your hopes. You'll be where we are right now for a few years.....Get your giggles in now. You'll feel our pain soon enough, if the current roster can't deliver the Lower Mainland a Cup.

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01-11-2013, 07:51 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Send him to FLA where he will be happy, and I think even their worst offer would be close.
Ok.... and what's Florida willing to part with for Luongo?

Of course... keep in mind they have a goalie with 1/4 of the paycheck, who had similar stats to Luongo, a NTC, and absolutely no desire to waive it.

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01-11-2013, 07:52 PM
  #333
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We have the best farm team in the league.
You might want to check the AHL standings. The Marlies aren't first. There are 2 teams ahead of them and 2 tied with them in the standings.

Regardless, a great farm team does not equal a great prospect pool. Toronto is ranked 20th overall in the league on this website. That doesn't bode well for a team on the rebuild or rebuilding on the fly. Without Rielly, you would be ranked near Vancouver at 26, if not worse.

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Old
01-11-2013, 07:54 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Your little potshots at the Leafs are really cute. With your cockiness, I am sure you have seen at least one parade in your lifetime, unlike me. Cheers to you.

Oh, wait.....

The Canucks have a window of a few years, and they had better capitalize, as much as the rest of the hockey world hopes they don't. You might want to look at your own prospect pool, because once the sisters are washed up, so are your hopes. You'll be where we are right now for a few years.....Get your giggles in now. You'll feel our pain soon enough, if the current roster can't deliver the Lower Mainland a Cup.
Actually, they won't be.

They'll be where we were 4 years ago.

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01-11-2013, 07:54 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I really believe that the New CBA hurts Vancouvers ability to trade Luongo.

I dont think they will feel comfortable trading him away and have him potentially retire early and come back as a cap hit to vancouver. That being said I think he is a prime candidate to be amnestied simply because of the contract and nothing else.
Actually funny enough the earlier he retires the better, it spreads the cap penalties out more.

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01-11-2013, 07:55 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The Leafs are not going to trade their 26 year old #1 centre for a 33 year old goaltender.
Um, yes they would. Without even thinking twice. And think Bozak as just one of the pieces.

If not, Nonis is more of an idiot than JFJ.

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01-11-2013, 07:58 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
I don't blame them really. After a decade of losing and being fleeced on 90% of the trades and transactions I would probably be reluctant to do anything. You know the old saying. "Fool me once, fool me twice"... Welp, the leafs are now on Fool me 27 times. haha

I still see Luo going to FLA. T.O. just doesn't have the assets to get it done.
Lol...and Tallon won't even come close to Bozak,Kadri and a 2nd value wise....so good luck with that.

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01-11-2013, 07:59 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
According to the CBA vancouver will be on the hook if he retires early. Those last 3 years of 1 mill are 4.6 less than his aav. I think that is what the cap hit will be for the canucks for the 3 years.
Unless he goes on LTIR for a pesky groin injury...

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Ok.... and what's Florida willing to part with for Luongo?

Of course... keep in mind they have a goalie with 1/4 of the paycheck, who had similar stats to Luongo, a NTC, and absolutely no desire to waive it.
Yet they still approved his contract with the owners, and had a meeting with him... hmmm.

Not sure, many fans like here, think differently, but something like around

Shore, Petrovic, draft pick cap dump has been talked about.

Basically two good prospects, (not blue chip or Jugs), and a draft pick, we take some salary back in a dump form. It has been expended a few times, but that is the general idea.

The bottom line here, is any team has to significantly beat the best offer FLA gives us.

On a side note, a Jets fan offered Little ++, I don't remember what the pluses were though.

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01-11-2013, 07:59 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
According to the CBA vancouver will be on the hook if he retires early. Those last 3 years of 1 mill are 4.6 less than his aav. I think that is what the cap hit will be for the canucks for the 3 years.
It's based on benefit. Vancouver has paid Luongo $23.43m in 3 years so far. They've "capped" $15.999m. They'll have to pay out $7.431m over the years that Luongo is retired under his current deal. If he stays another year, that number will increase by $1.381m.

For the acquiring team, they will accumulate $1.381m of future cap liability each year until the 2018-2019 season, at which point Luongo's contract starts to dive and that liability is decreased every year he plays. The intersting thing is... if Luongo were to be traded with... lets say...4 years left, a team could actually gain cap space by forcing him to retire.

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Old
01-11-2013, 08:02 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Unless he goes on LTIR for a pesky groin injury...



Yet they still approved his contract with the owners, and had a meeting with him... hmmm.

Not sure, many fans like here, think differently, but something like around

Shore, Petrovic, draft pick cap dump has been talked about.

Basically two good prospects, (not blue chip or Jugs), and a draft pick, we take some salary back in a dump form. It has been expended a few times, but that is the general idea.

The bottom line here, is any team has to significantly beat the best offer FLA gives us.

On a side note, a Jets fan offered Little ++, I don't remember what the pluses were though.
Florida's been tampering with Luongo now?

So you're going to take a deal that's worse for the Canucks? sounds like some real astute management out there in Vancouver.

Either way, no interest in negotiating against ourselves, and unless a middle-of-the-road prospect is going to change things, there's just nothing more to give.

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01-11-2013, 08:05 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
That's your opinion.

My asking price has been the same, value of:
Roster player
good prospect
1st

For Toronto, something like Bozak, Kadri, 1st/Finn and a 2nd




I would say, the media is funny, I remember one it was first speculated that Lui was going to be traded they were saying cap dump plus. Now, you have people like Dreger saying Bozak Kadri draft pick, the price has been high, and will be higher than you want, I doubt it is Hossa, or Chicago for that matter.

Read above for my expected return.
True. The Toronto based media has been diwnplaying Luongo's value from the start. At least the salary dump stupidity seems to have gone away. They have come up to Bozak, Kadri and a pick. Something tells me they are still underselling though. I don't expect Rielly and a first or something ridiculous, but could see one of at least Gardiner, a first or Kadri as part of a package. It will likely be a roster player, a prospect and a pick. I don't think that structure of the deal has changed from the start.

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01-11-2013, 08:08 PM
  #342
racerjoe
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Florida's been tampering with Luongo now?

So you're going to take a deal that's worse for the Canucks? sounds like some real astute management out there in Vancouver.
It isn't tampering since we ok'd it.

It's not worse, you have to look at the entire picture, what's the difference in assets? Other benefits?

In this case, doing right by your players, will help you sign others. Players knowing you are a good organization means a lot.

Plus two prospects = to Kadri is better than one Kadri, and Connolly. I am not even someone who minds Connolly coming back, you just need to realize he holds absolutely zero value.

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01-11-2013, 08:09 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Florida's been tampering with Luongo now?

So you're going to take a deal that's worse for the Canucks? sounds like some real astute management out there in Vancouver.

Either way, no interest in negotiating against ourselves, and unless a middle-of-the-road prospect is going to change things, there's just nothing more to give.
What? Those meetings happened around the draft before the lockout.

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01-11-2013, 08:13 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
It isn't tampering since we ok'd it.

It's not worse, you have to look at the entire picture, what's the difference in assets? Other benefits?

In this case, doing right by your players, will help you sign others. Players knowing you are a good organization means a lot.

Plus two prospects = to Kadri is better than one Kadri, and Connolly. I am not even someone who minds Connolly coming back, you just need to realize he holds absolutely zero value.
Honestly... if you're going to undervalue Kadri to the point of calling him equal to Petrovic & Shore, there's really no way that you'll be satisfied with any deal with Toronto... so it's probably best that you stop suggesting them.

You just don't have the ability to fairly evaluate talent with regards to an organization that you obviously have personal issues with.

In regards to Connolly, you need to realize that as an accomplished centre in this league, in a year where at full salary, only 5 teams couldn't add him in isolation, that he has substantial value to a team that needs help at centre, such as the Canucks. There's a reason the Leafs had to pay $4.75m over 2 years just 1 year ago to get him, and while his value obviously dropped, it certainly hasn't dropped below $2.8m in cap hit and $2m in salary with no future risk.

As for "doing right by your players"... subjecting a goalie who basically gave you carte blanche to decide where he will spend the rest of his career to 7 months of uncertainty and trade rumours while you auction him off to the highest bidder certainly sounds like "doing right by your players".


Last edited by seanlinden: 01-11-2013 at 08:19 PM.
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01-11-2013, 08:14 PM
  #345
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Who are you trading then? Seems all you leaf fans are expecting to get an elite goalie for a bunch of crap. This isn't a video game trade where you can up the probability of acceptance by adding quantity over quality. Toronto isn't going to get him. Watch and see. The Leafs have a bad team and the few good players they do have nobody seems to want to let go.
That's the point. The Leafs are a few years into the rebuild. They don't have the depth of prospects yet that allow you to simply trade a few of them now for a player that may not be in their prime when the team finally gets better. That's why everyone was so critical of The Kessel trade. Keep the young players, continue to build up prospects and similar to the Jays trade them if and when it makes sense. Trading youth makes no sense right now, even if it's the right short term move. Let the cards fall as they may.

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01-11-2013, 08:20 PM
  #346
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That's the point. The Leafs are a few years into the rebuild. They don't have the depth of prospects yet that allow you to simply trade a few of them now for a player that may not be in their prime when the team finally gets better. That's why everyone was so critical of The Kessel trade. Keep the young players, continue to build up prospects and similar to the Jays trade them if and when it makes sense. Trading youth makes no sense right now, even if it's the right short term move. Let the cards fall as they may.
8 years without making the playoffs, how long does it take to rebuild again? Certainly not a decade...

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01-11-2013, 08:20 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Florida's been tampering with Luongo now?

So you're going to take a deal that's worse for the Canucks? sounds like some real astute management out there in Vancouver.

Either way, no interest in negotiating against ourselves, and unless a middle-of-the-road prospect is going to change things, there's just nothing more to give.
Gillis and Tallon don't have an acrimonious trading partnership. For the most part they trade based on mutual benefit. Luongo talking with Florida only happens with Gillis' permission and because Gillis wants to respect and honor the wishes of one of his best players who has done much for our franchise.

I know you are used to an ultra agressive GM who combats with the media, other GMs (I'll meet you in a barn Kevin Lowe), and his own players during negotiations, but that's not how other GMs operate. Rather than telling Luongo that he will drive him to the airport himself, Gillis is treating him with respect. It's probably not something Leafs fans are accustomed to with Burke. His firing due to his personal style is quite justified.

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01-11-2013, 08:21 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
8 years without making the playoffs, how long does it take to rebuild again? Certainly not a decade...
With our management? Don't be so sure.

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01-11-2013, 08:25 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
Gillis and Tallon don't have an acrimonious trading partnership. For the most part they trade based on mutual benefit. Luongo talking with Florida only happens with Gillis' permission and because Gillis wants to respect and honor the wishes of one of his best players who has done much for our franchise.

I know you are used to an ultra agressive GM who combats with the media, other GMs (I'll meet you in a barn Kevin Lowe), and his own players during negotiations, but that's not how other GMs operate. Rather than telling Luongo that he will drive him to the airport himself, Gillis is treating him with respect. It's probably not something Leafs fans are accustomed to with Burke. His firing due to his personal style is quite justified.
Subjecting him to 7 months of being on the auction block is what constitutes respect these days?

Call me crazy, but Gillis seems a lot closer to the Jim Delvano "Cattle" debacle in how he deals with Luongo. You want to treat him with respect? Trade him or commit to not doing so.

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01-11-2013, 08:26 PM
  #350
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Is Gillis some trading maestro now? He gave up grabner+ for Ballard. His latest trade of kassian + gragnani for hodgson wasn't good value either. I think Nonis/tallon/Holmgren may walk away with a steal

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