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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-11-2013, 08:14 PM
  #401
MuchoMacho
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
Plus, who the hell are the Leafs competing with for his services? Who wants that crazy contract? And I don't want to give Bozak up for him either. If the Leafs ever got a first line centre, Bozak would make an excellent #3. Even with his shortcomings, his line was a very high scoring line last year. I hope Luongo ends up in Florida, who are offering what by the way?
The reason I'd trade Bozak is because it opens up the #1 center spot and I'd really like to see other guys competing for that spot. Maybe Grabo takes his game to another level, maybe Kadri takes the spot, or maybe JVR converts to the center spot.. either way I like opening up the #1 center spot because Bozak is just too safe there. The other reason is that Jay McClement was just signed to be the Leafs third line center. If Leafs do get a #1 as you mentioned, he'd be on the third or fourth line battling for minutes with McClement.. I'd rather trade him while he's considered a top 6 player because when his minutes go down to 15 or less and he no longer has Lupul/Kessel on his wings, his value will go down as well.

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01-11-2013, 08:15 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
In the case of both Shore & Petrovic... high end offensive ability. Kadri's shown it at every level, despite being grossly mishandled by the Leafs organization who tried to turn him into a grinder.

Obviously the offensive output is less important for a guy like Petrovic, but he doesn't exactly have the dominance level one would hope for with a 6'4 defenceman.
He did win the defender of the year award in the dub last year. He's in some good company:


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01-11-2013, 08:15 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'm not ignoring that trades cannot be made during the lockout. I'm simply pointing out the fact that Gillis knew a lockout was coming, knew that if he didn't trade Luongo before the lockout, that he would be subjected to the uncertainty for the indefinite amount of time that the lockout would last, and decided that it's better for him to leave Luongo in a position of uncertainty. Classy!

Gillis is absolutely holding out for that extra scrap... if he was truly concerned about doing what's best for the player, he would've asked Luongo where he wants to go, and as long as he's not taking "negative" value in return, traded him there promptly.



I'm not slagging his tenure, simply the notion that he's treated Luongo with any shed of respect or class in this debacle. There's absolutely no excuse in subjecting a player to 7 months on the trade block.

Connolly found his way to the Leafs because he was our best option. He was able to command $4.75m over 2 years because he would've been other team's best options at slightly lower prices.

Just for clarification... your intention is to keep him this year, accumulate more future cap liability, and take what can only be expected to be less in a deal at the end of the season?



There's only 1 thing that could've been said to Luongo before the lockout that would've forgiven Gillis -- "You're being traded to XXX on the day the lockout ends"... and if that had been said, I suspect that he wouldn't be in Vancouver right now.

Interesting.. so you'd rather have a 4th round pick and one of Manny Malhotra, Chris Higgin, or Maxim Lapiere centering the second line?
How many days (or was it years) that Kaberle was on the trade block for? Do you hold our own GM to the same standard?

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01-11-2013, 08:16 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Chaz McNulty View Post
I'm telling you that he was way overvalued and that somehow Burke convinced another GM of this. Much the same way everyone is overvalueing Kadri and even Gartiner.

Anyone can look special on a crappy team.
So you think Chiarelli only overpayed for Kaberle because Burke "convinced" him to do it?

Seems legit..

Kaberle was 33 years old when he was traded, and his play on the ice started going downhill from their. Luongo is also 33 years old, can you see why leaf fans are hesitant to trade for Lou? Especially at some of the insane prices Canuck fans are asking for?

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01-11-2013, 08:18 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
People were telling us that we'd be lucky to get a 2nd rounder for Kaberle.

What did we get?

Colborne (former 1st round pick, looking like nothing special although)
Bruins 1st round pick
Bruins 2nd round pick(Flipped for Liles)

Lol, so what were you saying?
Couldn't the same logic be applied to Luongo's return? Most are saying his value is much lower than what most Canucks fans think, and couldn't Canucks fans be right over HF, just like the Leafs fans were right with Kaberle's return?

At the end of the day, if there is one thing I am sure of through my long time here lurking/posting on HF is that in general we have no idea how GM's value players. We really like to think we do, and we spend hours debating these beliefs, calling each other idiots, and trying to make some impossible compromise between fan bases thinking that it may actually accomplish something. Ultimately we don't know what Luongo could bring in, it could be much higher than the general consensus here, or it could not. All we can do is sit at wait it out

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01-11-2013, 08:18 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by gongshowmonkey View Post
Safe to assume Kadri would land in AV's doghouse right away.
I agree, I don't think he's a good fit in Vancouver at all. If he's not on the leafs I can only see him being successful somewhere like Montreal or Calgary where he could crack the top 6, be surrounded by veterans and the fans could really get behind him. I think Vancouver's top 6 is too strong for Kadri to crack and I could see him ending up on the 4th line or stuck in the AHL and losing all confidence.

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01-11-2013, 08:19 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
You know nothing on how Luongo feels. If he was truly unhappy, like your Nash example, there would be media sniping. For all we know Luongo could have told Nonis that there is no way he will waive to go to Toronto, but that Gillis is free to discuss trades with them to help establish a market for him.
So you're suggesting that Luongo likes being the subject of trade rumours and uncertainty for 7 months?

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Seriously? Gillis has done nothing but give Luongo everything he's ever wanted. Built the team around the guy, fabulous contract running until he retires, and is doing his best to accommodate trading him. The fact that team and obviously Luongo, both feel he might do better with a fresh start suddenly means that Gillis MUST give Luongo away lest he get hurt by not knowing where he may go immediately?

More realistically, it seems like Luongo likes and respects Mike Gillis and the rest of the Canucks organization, and every action and word spoken by the guy suggests he wants to help the team as much as he can before he leaves.

In a shortened season like this, I doubt Luongo would be adverse to splitting duty with Schneider and having another chance at winning a cup here before he leaves.

I'm sure that Luongo knows this is a business and that's it's a tricky situation that make take some time to sort out. Personally, I see him coming to camp and having a lot of fun with the situation and with his friends on the team.
As above... Luongo wanted to be treated like cattle, up for auction to the highest bidder, not knowing where he will spend the rest of his career, for 7 months?

Takes time? Absolutely... that time will always be dependent on how quickly the GM wants to come to a resolution. When it's taken over a month or two... it's pretty obvious that the GM doesn't respect his player enough to get it done quickly. When it's taken 7, that's just downright insulting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz McNulty View Post
How many days (or was it years) that Kaberle was on the trade block for? Do you hold our own GM to the same standard?
Absolutely. Burke was pretty good about trading guys quickly & quietly when they were to be traded.... Kaberle a notable exception.

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01-11-2013, 08:20 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
In the case of both Shore & Petrovic... high end offensive ability. Kadri's shown it at every level, despite being grossly mishandled by the Leafs organization who tried to turn him into a grinder.

Obviously the offensive output is less important for a guy like Petrovic, but he doesn't exactly have the dominance level one would hope for with a 6'4 defenceman.
Higher end offensive ability, but lower end everything else. Slightly bigger boom, but much bigger chance of bust due to that grossly mishandling in his development you alluded to. Even if he reaches his full potential and becomes a 50-60 point one dimensional winger I don't think that trumps Shore's potential as a 40-50 point 2 way center, or Petrovic's potential as a 25-35 point beast of a defenseman.

Like I said; slightly bigger boom, much bigger chance of bust. I'd say they're pretty equivalently rated prospects. Whatever difference there might be it certainly isn't large enough to make a fuss about undervaluing Kadri like you did.

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01-11-2013, 08:20 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
So you think Chiarelli only overpayed for Kaberle because Burke "convinced" him to do it?

Seems legit..
I really don't know why he overpaid, but can we atleast admit that he did and that all the Leafs fans thought Kaberle was worth that prior to the trade.

We all know how Kaberle looked once you put him next to a team full of good players.

It's the same with Gartiner. From reading the posts you would think that he was going to be a franchise defensemen.

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01-11-2013, 08:20 PM
  #410
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I really don't think kassian is anything special I don't think hodgson is some super stud, but his ceiling is higher than kassians.
Kassian has shown glimpses of being a special player with a combination of grit, soft hands and a solid shot. The biggest concern with him is consistency. He is still a young prospect though, so hopefully his effort level is something that can be coached. I know he trained with the Sedins for a while prior to the lockout to see what dedication really is. Hopefully some of it rubbed off.

Hodgson will always have a higher ceiling for points, but he wasn't going to bump Sedin or Kesler out if a top 6 role any time soon here.

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01-11-2013, 08:22 PM
  #411
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We can have a 4th line of Jensen Kadri Kassian for years to come or until AV is fired. They'll only play 5 minutes a game but it will be a good 5 minutes!

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01-11-2013, 08:23 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'm not ignoring that trades cannot be made during the lockout. I'm simply pointing out the fact that Gillis knew a lockout was coming, knew that if he didn't trade Luongo before the lockout, that he would be subjected to the uncertainty for the indefinite amount of time that the lockout would last, and decided that it's better for him to leave Luongo in a position of uncertainty. Classy!

Gillis is absolutely holding out for that extra scrap... if he was truly concerned about doing what's best for the player, he would've asked Luongo where he wants to go, and as long as he's not taking "negative" value in return, traded him there promptly.



I'm not slagging his tenure, simply the notion that he's treated Luongo with any shed of respect or class in this debacle. There's absolutely no excuse in subjecting a player to 7 months on the trade block.

Connolly found his way to the Leafs because he was our best option. He was able to command $4.75m over 2 years because he would've been other team's best options at slightly lower prices.

Just for clarification... your intention is to keep him this year, accumulate more future cap liability, and take what can only be expected to be less in a deal at the end of the season?



There's only 1 thing that could've been said to Luongo before the lockout that would've forgiven Gillis -- "You're being traded to XXX on the day the lockout ends"... and if that had been said, I suspect that he wouldn't be in Vancouver right now.

Interesting.. so you'd rather have a 4th round pick and one of Manny Malhotra, Chris Higgin, or Maxim Lapiere centering the second line?
No, I said I'd rather have a lower pick (ie than a high first round), and this shortened season with Luongo than the players you seem to think have value. Other Canuck fans will hold different opinions on the subject, but I confident my opinion has merit. I can not say the same for almost everything you're writing.

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01-11-2013, 08:24 PM
  #413
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Higher end offensive ability, but lower end everything else. Slightly bigger boom, but much bigger chance of bust due to that grossly mishandling in his development you alluded to. Even if he reaches his full potential and becomes a 50-60 point one dimensional winger I don't think that trumps Shore's potential as a 40-50 point 2 way center, or Petrovic's potential as a 25-35 point beast of a defenseman.

Like I said; slightly bigger boom, much bigger chance of bust. I'd say they're pretty equivalently rated prospects. Whatever difference there might be it certainly isn't large enough to make a fuss about undervaluing Kadri like you did.
Calling Kadri's ceiling 60 points is really discrediting his talent level.

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01-11-2013, 08:25 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Canuckaholic19 View Post
Couldn't the same logic be applied to Luongo's return? Most are saying his value is much lower than what most Canucks fans think, and couldn't Canucks fans be right over HF, just like the Leafs fans were right with Kaberle's return?

At the end of the day, if there is one thing I am sure of through my long time here lurking/posting on HF is that in general we have no idea how GM's value players. We really like to think we do, and we spend hours debating these beliefs, calling each other idiots, and trying to make some impossible compromise between fan bases thinking that it may actually accomplish something. Ultimately we don't know what Luongo could bring in, it could be much higher than the general consensus here, or it could not. All we can do is sit at wait it out
Exactly. That's why I tend to stay away from this thread, it's mostly just bickering back and fourth. Leaf fans aren't going to sway canucks fans opinions, and canucks fans won't sway Leaf fans opinions. It's basically a viscous circle.

It's really all we've got though, is speculation and opinion. I think both fans bases will be both right & wrong.

leafs fans being right, for saying Gardiner won't be going the other way.

Canuck fans being right, for saying Bozak and Kadri won't be the main centre piece.

That's just me speculating once again. I'd say if their is no trade by Monday, it'd be safe to assume Gillis asking price is to high for Nonis.

Really looking forward this to all come to an end though. Shall be interesting.

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01-11-2013, 08:25 PM
  #415
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No, I said I'd rather have a lower pick (ie than a high first round), and this shortened season with Luongo than the players you seem to think have value. Other Canuck fans will hold different opinions on the subject, but I confident my opinion has merit. I can not say the same for almost everything you're writing.
How can you reasonably expect to get a better pick for Luongo than right now?

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01-11-2013, 08:25 PM
  #416
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I'm telling you that he was way overvalued and that somehow Burke convinced another GM of this. Much the same way everyone is overvalueing Kadri and even Gartiner.

Anyone can look special on a crappy team.
The market dictates the return. Kaberle got Colborne (first round pick), a first round pick that we used on Stuart Percy and a second which we traded. That's what Kaberle was worth because someone was willing to pay it.

We'll see what Luongo's value is at in a few days.

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01-11-2013, 08:26 PM
  #417
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JAKE GARDINER will not be included in a deal for Luongo

Sorry for ruining your parade, Vans fans. Just so I wanna make it clear, I heard McKenzie mentioning TSN radio that Gardiner or any young top prospect won't be included in a deal for Luongu nor are they going to move anytime soon.

Even Nonis confirmed this in an interview yesterday, if they are indeed moved, it will only be in a package for equivalent young impact player.

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01-11-2013, 08:27 PM
  #418
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Sorry for ruining your parade, Vans fans. Just so I wanna make it clear, I heard McKenzie mentioning TSN radio that Gardiner or any young top prospect won't be included in a deal for Luongu nor are they going to move anytime soon.

Even Nonis confirmed this in an interview yesterday, if they are indeed moved, it will only be in a package for equivalent young impact player.
Luongo-related statements belong in the Luongo thread, not their own thread.

KEEP ALL LUONGO TALK HERE.

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01-11-2013, 08:28 PM
  #419
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If Schneider wins a Stanley Cup with the Canucks as a starter, they already win the trade because they unloaded a huge contract that would count against their cap for years to come.

That makes too much sense.

*Edit sarcasm

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01-11-2013, 08:28 PM
  #420
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I really don't know why he overpaid, but can we atleast admit that he did and that all the Leafs fans thought Kaberle was worth that prior to the trade.

We all know how Kaberle looked once you put him next to a team full of good players.

It's the same with Gartiner. From reading the posts you would think that he was going to be a franchise defensemen.
From reading your posts, it sounds like you haven't watched him once. i.e spelling his name "Gartiner"

The same thing can be said for Luongo, who knows how he will play behind an abysmal leaf team? Kaberle was a great defenseman back in his 20's and early 30's. Just like any player though, once you hit mid 30's your play starts to dip. Luongo could be the exception, but why should the leafs gamble their future to find out?

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01-11-2013, 08:28 PM
  #421
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So you're suggesting that Luongo likes being the subject of trade rumours and uncertainty for 7 months?



As above... Luongo wanted to be treated like cattle, up for auction to the highest bidder, not knowing where he will spend the rest of his career, for 7 months?

Takes time? Absolutely... that time will always be dependent on how quickly the GM wants to come to a resolution. When it's taken over a month or two... it's pretty obvious that the GM doesn't respect his player enough to get it done quickly. When it's taken 7, that's just downright insulting.



Absolutely. Burke was pretty good about trading guys quickly & quietly when they were to be traded.... Kaberle a notable exception.
Ok, before I actually thought you were being serious. I should have known you were just joking. Good one.

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01-11-2013, 08:29 PM
  #422
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How long have the leafs sucked now? Its still the same tune of waiting for the future. Why would players want to sign in T.O. right now if that is the attitude. Why would Kessel want to waste his prime on a team not in win-now mode? You ALWAYS should be trying to improve. What better way to lure FA's, than getting a big name. It worked in Van getting Sundin - you wanna see a bad deal??- but it worked. The hockey world took notice, and the same would happen if Luongo went to the Leafs. Luongo is among the best in the game at his position. Gardiner isn't even close to the best at his, and may never be. One of the best in the game, for another 5 years at least... easily worth more than Gardiner - no question. Can the Leafs afford to give him up? debatable. I think they could get by, and be a more competitive team immediately. 1sts are traded a fair bit in real life, probably because you get a new one every year. Leafs really need to open their options a bit.
How often does a goalie of Luo's stature become available with plenty of mileage left? As much as nearly everyone wants to deny it, there are other teams interested. If they were to low-ball the Canucks too, forcing their hand, Gillis lets Luongo pick his favourite, and gambling on that being Toronto... not the safest bet.
You can plug a hole up front, or on D, but in net... over the coarse of a season? Goalie is the most important, in that if they have an off night, you practically forfeit the game. I just don't see how Toronto lets Luongo slip through their fingers. He could turn that franchise around overnight.

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01-11-2013, 08:32 PM
  #423
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How long have the leafs sucked now? Its still the same tune of waiting for the future. Why would players want to sign in T.O. right now if that is the attitude. Why would Kessel want to waste his prime on a team not in win-now mode? You ALWAYS should be trying to improve. What better way to lure FA's, than getting a big name. It worked in Van getting Sundin - you wanna see a bad deal??- but it worked. The hockey world took notice, and the same would happen if Luongo went to the Leafs. Luongo is among the best in the game at his position. Gardiner isn't even close to the best at his, and may never be. One of the best in the game, for another 5 years at least... easily worth more than Gardiner - no question. Can the Leafs afford to give him up? debatable. I think they could get by, and be a more competitive team immediately. 1sts are traded a fair bit in real life, probably because you get a new one every year. Leafs really need to open their options a bit.
How often does a goalie of Luo's stature become available with plenty of mileage left? As much as nearly everyone wants to deny it, there are other teams interested. If they were to low-ball the Canucks too, forcing their hand, Gillis lets Luongo pick his favourite, and gambling on that being Toronto... not the safest bet.
You can plug a hole up front, or on D, but in net... over the coarse of a season? Goalie is the most important, in that if they have an off night, you practically forfeit the game. I just don't see how Toronto lets Luongo slip through their fingers. He could turn that franchise around overnight.
Again you sound like another Canuck fan trying to convince everyone on why the Leafs should get Luongo? Why are you doing this? Why do you care? Are you upset that you may not get what you want? Look, the reasons why we won't give up our young talent for your aging goalie on a longer term contract have been mentioned time and time again. Just accept the fact that you're not getting Gardiner or any of our other young talented blue chippers.

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01-11-2013, 08:32 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
Sorry for ruining your parade, Vans fans. Just so I wanna make it clear, I heard McKenzie mentioning TSN radio that Gardiner or any young top prospect won't be included in a deal for Luongu nor are they going to move anytime soon.

Even Nonis confirmed this in an interview yesterday, if they are indeed moved, it will only be in a package for equivalent young impact player.
you don't get luongo then. enjoy another year missing the playoffs.. the real sad thing is Toronto's roster won't enable them to tank.

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01-11-2013, 08:34 PM
  #425
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Canuck fans sound like they secretly cheer for the Leafs the way they sound so upset we won't take Luongo lol

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