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Brian Burke "floored" by dismissal as Toronto GM

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Old
01-12-2013, 01:36 AM
  #101
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not dramatic at all, that's what it feels like. i am no burke defender - he's made his mistakes. this was just not the way to do things and not the right time.
Why wasn't it the right time? I'm getting tired of this half-assed Damien Cox type of argument.

It was literally the perfect time to fire him.

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01-12-2013, 01:42 AM
  #102
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With the way that Brian was treated, he has acted with class and dignity. I wasn't exactly expecting him to come out and snap on MLSE as I'm sure he knows that would hurt his chances of being signed as a GM in the future, but I did think he would at least question the timing, and say that he thought he deserved one last shot to get us in. I guess he may still do that tomorrow, but he is a great man and a very smart hockey man. Hopefully he finds another GM job, or stays with us and gets his name on the cup .

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01-12-2013, 01:55 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by fourofakindfowl View Post
Brian Burke is a man of integrity. This is a real low blow by the Board at MLSE. It could be argued that firing him over on-ice performance is justified, however the timing of this move is inexcusable. The ownership group has blindsided the entire hockey operations side of the organization from top management to coaching staff, to the players themselves. Not to mention the fans.

The Leafs were in absolute shambles before Burke took over. They were poorly prepared and failed to adapt to the new salary cap. The Leafs were a perennial Eastern Conference powerhouse under Pat Quinn in the pre cap lockout era. They could spend freely and worry less about drafting and minor league player development. However after the 2004 lockout the Leafs continued to try and ride the old core of McCabe, Tucker, Sundin, Belfour etc while adding through free agency Lindros, Allison, O'neill, Czerkawski, Kubina, Blake, instead of shifting organizational philosophies to a 'build from within' mentality.

As Fletcher took over for Ferguson, he found himself completely handcuffed by the no trade clauses held by almost all core players. Years of mortgaging the future had caught up to the Leafs. There was no legitimate top end talent in the minor league system to replace the aging veteran core, and they could not trade the core for assets because of the NTC's. There wasn't even much in the way of major pro talent whatsoever in the Leafs' farm at the time, top young players in the organization being Robbie Earl, John Mitchell, Pogge. The 2003 through 2005 drafts yielded almost nothing for the Leafs. John Mitchell, Jeremy Williams and Anton Stralman. And indirectly Andrew Raycroft, who the Leafs traded 2005 first rounder Tuuka Rask for. Combine that rich draft history with a 'firesale' in which Antropov, Kaberle, Moore, Ponikarovsky are your main attractions, and its easy to see why the Leafs' future was in such bad shape.

The critics of Brian Burke need to do more research on how bad of a state the Leafs were in at the time. They were an absolute wreck. The Kessel trade is Burke's defining moment, and in my opinion it isn't a definitive 'loss' for the Leafs. That can't be determined yet. Yes the Leafs haven't made the playoffs since Burke took over, but where exactly were the impact players supposed to come from? The NHL isnt a video game, you cannot just easily add star players. Im amazed he was able to get Phaneuf. He has done well in terms of asset management. This will prove true even moreso this year, as Nonis hopefully retains assets from trading Burke-acquired players like Bozak, Connolly, Lombardi and Franson.

Im sad that more people do not see it, but the Leafs roster is built very intelligently. It just so happens that the two missing pieces are very hard to obtain. The organizational depth is strong, however. It disappoints me that Brian Burke was not given the opportunity to mould this roster into its final shape, especially considering that there are enough assets to make a major trade, and enough cap space to facilitate adding a star player through free agency. It just seems so fickle to fire him, and it is downright stupid to do this to your organization right before the season, especially when Burke is so highly regarded. Its demoralizing.
I can't agree enough with this post.

The actions of MLSE in firing Burke in such a fashion are so unfathomably disgusting (if anyone has any doubt of this, they only need to remember the shock and confusion they felt as they learnt of Burke's unjust firing) that it has made me question my loyalties to the team - something which I've never done before.

I'm still not sure if I can back an organization that is so morally reprehensible.

Lastly, I am saddened by the fact that everyone will forget the abhorrent tactics of those in charge of this organization once the season is underway.

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01-12-2013, 02:02 AM
  #104
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I always liked burke and thought we would experience great success with him. He is a man who did great things for this city and despite his over-the-top stubborn personality, I always appreciated his morals.

And I know that a lot of people are angry with burke about the things he said... But why does everyone care so much? People should, in my opinion, be judged by what they did versus what they said. I mean, I know burke didnt fulfill his promises here but I do think he moved this organization forward. Everyone will continue to crucify the kessel trade but we should also remember that he did:

-the beauchimen trade
-the phaneuf trade
-the JVR trade
-the kaberle trade
-the lebda trade
-the liles trade
-the versteeg trade(s)

I cant help but think he more than made up for it, especially because I dont think dougie hamilton will even be all that special. People keep crying over him, saying he will be the second star we traded away in the kessel deal but I dont see a star in dougie hamilton(sue me).

Regardless, I appreciate burke for what he did here, he's the best GM we had in a while. Hopefully Nonis can continue building this team.

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01-12-2013, 02:19 AM
  #105
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Agreed with above. I'm not happy about this firing.

I loved the wilson firing, I felt Burke more than deserved another season to see some of his prospects do well on the team or to make another big trade or two.

I felt like he got cut off before he could actually do something significant. Just bad timing on it IMO.

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01-12-2013, 06:29 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke's personality lacks a filter as he lashes out uncontrollably at anyone and battles everyone, and when he does it, it reflects negatively on his employer by his actions, and their corporate image.
Let's pretend -- for one moment -- that Rogers and Bell have a positive corporate image to be tarnished.

...

Okay, that was fun.

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01-12-2013, 07:55 AM
  #107
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I believe you're right. Gretzky was supposed to be a Leaf as a Free Agent and Stavros vetoed it as it would cost too much.
I remember it as Stavros saying why get Gretzky when my arena is already sold out.

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01-12-2013, 08:08 AM
  #108
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I'm starting to really hate this decision. Don't get me wrong, there's no defending the team's poor on-ice performance, but the timing of the dismissal and how the MLSE goon stumbled his words trying to find justification for it was so amateur. It made the team look like a joke. The way it was handled was embarrassing.

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01-12-2013, 08:09 AM
  #109
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Personality clash firing for sure. Of course you could say he deserved to be fired, the lack of success with the team, inability to supply the team with a #1 centre and goalie etc but the timing is bizarre to me. CBA just completed, short camp with lots of work about to be finalized by Burke. Months of prep on a plan now thrown out the window. The only thing that might save this is the fact Nonis is taking over. He was doing a lot of the work behind the scenes anyway. One thing for sure, with all the expiring contracts, Burke has set the table nicely next year and the year after for Nonis to make this his team from that point forward.

I will miss his ability to deal seemingly untradable assets for useful pieces. I liked his work ethic, "no stone unturned" philosophy.

There was plenty to justify a firing but I would have given him another season to let some of his draft picks come to fruition, let him work with the cap space he envisioned happening with a new CBA, and see if he could get some assets other teams were forced to get rid of because of it.

It will be a lot quieter around here, good or bad, we won't have Brian Burke to kick around anymore.


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01-12-2013, 08:22 AM
  #110
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Burke won most of his deals....

He just gets judged for the Kessel deal far too much. The biggest mistake he made is overrating his team that season.

Getting Gardiner and Lupul for nothing essentially makes the Kessel deal a wash. With all the other deals hes won I was happy with the job he was doing. Not to mention hes entertaining, and you know wont be afraid to pull the trigger on a big deal. Nonis in Vancouver didnt make many big moves, aside from bringing in Luongo.

I too, feel like the heart was ripped out of the Leafs. I have a uneasy feeling about the direction this franchise is heading now. We were on the right track with a dedicated GM who nobody can argue, KNOWS his hockey.

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01-12-2013, 09:12 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Espher View Post
Let's pretend -- for one moment -- that Rogers and Bell have a positive corporate image to be tarnished.

...

Okay, that was fun.
Bell/Rogers is very familiar with the how Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos and Raptors Bryan Colangelo conduct themselves professionally and represent the voice of their sport franchises.

Brian Burke's actions/voice were very unbecoming of a major sports franchise and unprofessional in their eyes, tarnishing what those in control wanted as their front man to represent the brand. Therefore a switch in direction on this alone makes perfect sense.

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01-12-2013, 09:16 AM
  #112
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Bell/Rogers is very familiar with the how Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos and Raptors Bryan Colangelo conduct themselves professionally and represent the voice of their sport franchises.

Brian Burke's actions/voice were very unbecoming of a major sports franchise and unprofessional in their eyes, tarnishing what those in control wanted as their front man to represent the brand. Therefore a switch in direction on this alone makes perfect sense.
Agreed.

Be polite and do up your tie, results be damned.

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01-12-2013, 09:21 AM
  #113
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Bell/Rogers is very familiar with the how Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos and Raptors Bryan Colangelo conduct themselves professionally and represent the voice of their sport franchises.

Brian Burke's actions/voice were very unbecoming of a major sports franchise and unprofessional in their eyes, tarnishing what those in control wanted as their front man to represent the brand. Therefore a switch in direction on this alone makes perfect sense.



So you agree, the importance of portraying an image in the eyes of the board, is appropriate dismisal, and trumps that of hockey related decisions and results. Seems having the right yes man, with tie and suit is more important than being an NHL gm and being the right man for the job. Going to be a long road ahead with board members that have that train of thought.

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01-12-2013, 09:31 AM
  #114
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Agreed.

Be polite and do up your tie, results be damned.
Sports is a results oriented business as anyone in the know will tell you.. Those same words appeared in Tanenbaum's "I'm sorry" letter to Leaf Nation. When your organization has to humble itself to apologize publicly for the team's poor performance, the writing is on the wall, and that change in direction is near.

Nevermind Burke's abrasive combative personality displayed openly by his love for attention and the spotlight, the results of the team he managed being among the worst in the NHL can't be defended on merit, as the results speak for themselves based on lack of concrete results obtained under his direction. MLSE made no secret during their recent PC that this factor was a major issue behind Burke's dismissal as much if not more than his failing results on job performance.

AA and BC results are also in question without debate, however what they were provided was more time than Burke, directly because of the professional manner in which they represent their organizations. Neither tarnishes the brand nor the image and don't need to be silenced on those grounds.

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01-12-2013, 09:34 AM
  #115
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Sports is a results oriented business as anyone in the know will tell you.. Those same words appeared in Tanenbaum's "I'm sorry" letter to Leaf Nation. When your organization has to humble itself to apologize publicly for the team's poor performance, the writing is on the wall, and that change in direction is near.

Nevermind Burke's abrasive combative personality displayed openly by his love for attention and the spotlight, the results of the team he managed being among the worst in the NHL can't be defended on merit, as the results speak for themselves based on lack of concrete results obtained under his direction.

AA and BC results are also in question without debate, however what they were provided was more time than Burke, directly because of the professional manner in which they represent their organizations. Neither tarnishes the brand nor the image and don't need to be silenced on those grounds.
In other words if Burke was Colangelo he would still be here.

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01-12-2013, 09:39 AM
  #116
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Agreed.

Be polite and do up your tie, results be damned.
Versus be a huge jerk and ice a lottery team?

Does it really matter?

http://www.iveybusinessjournal.com/t...e#.UPGBqG9qbw0

A Comparison of Performance Between Cup Winning Teams and Next Teams for GMS

Category Cup Teams Next Team
Opportunities to be in Playoffs*9439
Years in Playoffs7618
% of years in Playoffs80.946.2
Regular-season record3569-2655-987-891280-1186-225-169
Winning %56.351.6
Cup appearances230
Cup wins190
% of Wins/Appearances82.60
Won/Loss % in playoffs57.543.1

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01-12-2013, 09:41 AM
  #117
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In other words if Burke was Colangelo he would still be here.
If by that you mean Burke's big mouth a major reason he was fired above and beyond his job performance, than I would say you're correct in suggesting he may have had more time to change the results aspect.

Dave Nonis their choice is much more similar in personality traits to AA of the Jays and BC of the Raptors, and since he was an extension of Burke, he got a reprieve from unemployment despite being painted with the same brush of team failure.

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01-12-2013, 09:43 AM
  #118
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Agreed with above. I'm not happy about this firing.

I loved the wilson firing, I felt Burke more than deserved another season to see some of his prospects do well on the team or to make another big trade or two.

I felt like he got cut off before he could actually do something significant. Just bad timing on it IMO.
2 months after getting extended? Yeah, talk about poor timing. Just another confused Burke action.

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01-12-2013, 09:45 AM
  #119
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If by that you mean Burke's big mouth a major reason he was fired above and beyond his job performance, than I would say you're correct in suggesting he may have had more time to change the results aspect.

Dave Nonis their choice is much more similar in personality traits to AA of the Jays and BC of the Raptors, and since he was an extension of Burke, he got a reprieve from unemployment despite being painted with the same brush of team failure.
So the board wants more of a yes man then? Excellent, someone who will do what he is told, and acts like a pupet on hehalf of the board. Seen this movie before, and the ending of it was horrible. Good for Burke for standing up for his convictions and beliefs, he was given complete autonomy, and seems was challenged on it. I guess Bell and Rogers has more experience and success in the NHL than Burke? God help us all,

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01-12-2013, 09:47 AM
  #120
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If by that you mean Burke's big mouth a major reason he was fired above and beyond his job performance, than I would say you're correct in suggesting he may have had more time to change the results aspect.

Dave Nonis their choice is much more similar in personality traits to AA of the Jays and BC of the Raptors, and since he was an extension of Burke, he got a reprieve from unemployment despite being painted with the same brush of team failure.
and you agree with this?

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01-12-2013, 09:47 AM
  #121
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Agreed.

Be polite and do up your tie, results be damned.
Well if he had results, you may have a point. Not only did he show no results, he acted like a fool. Who will ever forget the class he showed on the draft floor just before drafting Kadri. BAFOON!!

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01-12-2013, 09:49 AM
  #122
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Regardless, I appreciate burke for what he did here, he's the best GM we had in a while. Hopefully Nonis can continue building this team.
You can't really compare him to the GM's of the pre-cap NHL. As far as results go, he's one of the only GM's in club history to not make the playoffs in his tenure.

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01-12-2013, 09:49 AM
  #123
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2 months after getting extended? Yeah, talk about poor timing. Just another confused Burke action.
This stuff happens all the time in pro sports, Burke/Wilson weren't unique.

Carlyle was given 3 years by the Ducks then canned is only one example.

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01-12-2013, 10:01 AM
  #124
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[/B]


So you agree, the importance of portraying an image in the eyes of the board, is appropriate dismisal, and trumps that of hockey related decisions and results. Seems having the right yes man, with tie and suit is more important than being an NHL gm and being the right man for the job. Going to be a long road ahead with board members that have that train of thought.
Rogers/Bell come from the Baseball world so lets use the 3 strikes analogy and your out rule..

1) Sports is a results oriented business and Burke's record in his 4 years speaks for itself.. Strike I

2) Corporate takeovers/mergers very often result in new ownership putting their own people in charge in senior management positions to run the team as they desire is common place everyday procedure... Strike II

3) Corporate image and branding of the company a major factor behind how it wants to be portrayed publicly because it directly effects sponsors/investors/shareholders etc and as such the revenue stream bottom line. Strike III.

So Strike III and you're OUT !!!

Items 1 and 3 Burke had full control over and failed miserably at, and number 2 he couldn't control but still a victim of none the less as standard operating practices go in the business world..

The fact that Burke is "floored" and apparently unaware of all this is what is the most surprising aspect of all here.. However I suppose you could factor that into the arrogance of his personality to believe he believed he was above reproach and that for him these things simply didn't matter and his "autonomy" made him immune to being evaluated like all other corporate managers.

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01-12-2013, 10:15 AM
  #125
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The critics of Brian Burke need to do more research on how bad of a state the Leafs were in at the time. They were an absolute wreck. The Kessel trade is Burke's defining moment, and in my opinion it isn't a definitive 'loss' for the Leafs. That can't be determined yet. Yes the Leafs haven't made the playoffs since Burke took over, but where exactly were the impact players supposed to come from?
While the majority of your post was well written and informative, I believe you misunderstand a few things based on this paragraph of yours.

You ask, "where exactly were the impact players supposed to come from?" Because the Leafs were completely devoid of any star young talent (outside of Schenn) that could be used to acquire an impact player(s), the simple answer is that the Leafs were either going to acquire an impact player in the draft or free agency (because they clearly weren't trading for one unless they parted with Schenn).

You emphasize the fact that the Leafs were "an absolute wreck" (which they obviously were). This was clear to anyone with a pulse. The team had MAJOR foundational issues which ran far deeper than a Komisarek or a Beauchemin could solve.

I think you understate how much of a mistake it was for Burke to go out and sign Komisarek and Beauchemin and trade for Kessel in his first offseason. He absolutely should have tore it down even further and built through the draft.

I like many of Burke's moves, but I'm glad he's fired and feel he deserves it based on how badly he misjudged the team and tried to fast track the development without first acquiring the foundational pieces. Mistakes need to be paid for and I'm glad he's gone.

Hopefully Nonis stays true to his word and remains patient for this lockout shortened year and gets a top pick in the draft and builds the foundation first. Although you never know with this ownership.

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