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Feminism debunked

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06-11-2013, 05:38 AM
  #1
Chimp
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Feminism debunked

“Say hello to the new boss, even more sexist than the old boss.”

I would like to start by posting this link, which is a speech given by Karen Straughan at New York State Libertarian Convention of 2013. It is fairly long, but very well written. Most main myths and lies the feminist movement - a strong branch political correctness - rests on are debunked. Domestic abuse, how women are projected as victims of an exagerrated abuse that simply is not there, the misguided statements about the "patriarchial hierarchy and how all men benefit from this", how men are villains, etc.

Speech: http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-p...an-convention/

Film:

If feminism was actually about freedom for everyone - not just womens' strive for more power and rights without adding any extra responsibilities whatsoever - it could be a valid ideology. Now? It's just a radical ideology with extremely and biased poor analysis and poor method, that can often be written off as nothing but unfounded hatred against all men. Heck, in some countries - such as Sweden - it's even considered a "legit" academic institution for "gender science".

Speaking of which, I happen to live in a country where the feminist movement is perhaps the most extreme on the planet right now, where elected officials can openly call all men "Talibans", simply because they're men.

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06-11-2013, 06:10 AM
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Ilkka Sinisalo
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Anyone have a favorite "didn't read lol" to post here?

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06-11-2013, 06:56 AM
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Chimp
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Anyone have a favorite "didn't read lol" to post here?


Here you go you, enjoy yourself with something more fitting of your literacy level and/ or general maturity, because you're nothing but a supposedly grown child. I made sure to pick something extra short to minimize the risk of your attention span being disturbed by something else, but we all know that'll happen anyway.

Because we must assume you're not so insanely stupid that you enter - and post complete nonsense in - a thread regarding a subject you have a) absolutely no interest in discussing, because it contains words (feminism) that makes your brain go "Scwdaaah!" and b) only want to show off your redeeming derailing qualities as a veteran troll. Because you aren't really insanely stupid? Right? Right. Because if you don't like a subject, it's your right to act like an ******* and try to derail it ASAP. Because you are you. Good for you.


Last edited by Chimp: 06-11-2013 at 08:18 AM.
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06-11-2013, 07:47 AM
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You must get so much tail.

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06-11-2013, 07:48 AM
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Ilkka Sinisalo
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Dude, the entire premise of your thread doesn't even make sense. Feminism is a movement. I think that libertarianism, for example, is extremely self centered, lacking in empathy, and almost wholly unrealistic in modern society. But you can't "debunk" a movement.

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06-11-2013, 08:01 AM
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One hour Youtube video? Didn't watch lol.

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06-11-2013, 08:09 AM
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Kadri43
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The whole domestic abuse issue is 100% true. Women and men are equally engaged in abusing one another.

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06-11-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
You must get so much tail.


Even dogs can get tail, so don't get too proud now. Did you have anything of actual relevance to say? Didn't think so.
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
The whole domestic abuse issue is 100% true. Women and men are equally engaged in abusing one another.
Yeah and that's a quite significant thing. All you hear is about mens' guilt in domestic violence, how men are all scum and how all women are victims, when that is just untrue. Over here, we have entire institutions working with this matter and the media is bombarded with articles of how "men must take responsibility for other men". It has gotten past the point of ridiculousness.

A big problem is feminism is stranded under the umbrella of political correctness. Its results cannot be questioned and the entire foundation the movement is standing on can absolutely not be questioned (doctrine), unless the spokesperson wants to commit public relation harakiri. This confirmation bias is destabilizing societies as a whole. If you seek, you will find, if your spectrum is broad enough and you can be a little bit creative with the results.
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One hour Youtube video? Didn't watch lol.
I am shocked to hear that from you, really. I posted a teletubby video just for people like you, but I would rather see you discuss that in another thread. It's common courtesy to not take up space in threads you have no interest in discussing, but I guess that's too much to ask from grown children.


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06-11-2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
The whole domestic abuse issue is 100% true. Women and men are equally engaged in abusing one another.
It is a bad thing that domestic violence towards men is basically a "non-issue" but let's not pretend that we men are not more on the laying side than receiving.

I think some radical feminists are just what any other radicals usually are. Passionate, narrow sighted, crazy and idiotic. I don't see a difference compared to any other movement.

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06-11-2013, 08:25 AM
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Gobias Industries
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
The whole domestic abuse issue is 100% true. Women and men are equally engaged in abusing one another.
Do you have a stat showing "equal" abuse?

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06-11-2013, 08:31 AM
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Chimp
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
It is a bad thing that domestic violence towards men is basically a "non-issue" but let's not pretend that we men are not more on the laying side than receiving.

I think some radical feminists are just what any other radicals usually are. Passionate, narrow sighted, crazy and idiotic. I don't see a difference compared to any other movement.
That's the whole thing. Men aren't really that more on the laying side, it's about equal. People are conditioned to grow up in this violent, crazy society and that's exactly what they adapt to.

It doesn't matter if it's the radical feminists that are the ones who've gone haywire, they're the ones that are in power, they lead institutions, they become journalists and they have the passion to take charge of ideological work. That's what happens within a doctrine or dogma, the fanatics get all the social space within a closed bubble of confirmation bias, while those who oppose or criticize are stigmatized, demonized and silenced as heretics and inherently bad people.

If Karen Straughan would've said this and been a white man, she would by all definitions of political correctness been in a lot of trouble.
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Do you have a stat showing "equal" abuse?
According to Karen Straughan (I've seen some studies of my own, but not hundreds):
Quote:
... Every piece of legislation, every government policy and every publicly funded treatment program in the US regarding family violence, and the vast majority of them worldwide, employs this conceptual model.

Too bad it’s bunk. As hundreds of studies demonstrate, in at least half of cases, partner violence is reciprocal. It involves men and women hitting each other, and what motivates men and women is pretty much the same: anger, poor conflict resolution skills, jealousy, a desire to control or discipline a partner, drug and alcohol problems, and external stress such as poverty. Women are as likely as men to report abusing their partners for all these reasons, and are more likely to engage in coercive control of a partner. More than that, they are more likely to be the one to initiate physical violence, and in cases of severe unilateral abuse against a non-violent partner, women are the perpetrators up to 70% of the time.

For every 8 women seriously injured by domestic violence, at least 5 men are also seriously injured. And perhaps most damningly, considering feminism’s unwillingness to address women’s perpetration of violence, the number one predictor of serious domestic violence injury in women is their own initiation of violence. It is when men are hitting them BACK that women are most likely to be hurt.

What all this means is that patriarchal terrorism–the Duluth model of intimate partner violence–is the most rare form of all–and yet the patriarchal terrorism paradigm informs all of our government funded mechanisms for intervention and treatment.

But it doesn’t end there.

At least 35% of spousal murders are men murdered by their female partners. I say at least, because if a woman engages a hitman, boyfriend or relative to assist her in murdering her male partner, it is classified statistically not as spousal homicide, but as multiple-perpetrator homicide. Because of this, there is no way to know how many men are killed by their female partners each year.

More than this, women are the most likely demographic to perpetrate child abuse and neglect, even controlling for time spent with children, and the majority of young children murdered are murdered by their mothers. Biological fathers are, in contrast, the least likely demographic to abuse or kill young children, less likely than both biological mothers and stepfathers.

Statistically, the environment in which a woman is MOST safe from violence is in a stable marriage, and the environment in which children are the MOST safe from violence is one in which their parents are in a stable marriage.


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06-11-2013, 08:31 AM
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tarheelhockey
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Gonna ignore the OP because it's a bunch of garbage.

On the general topic, I am noticing a bit of a generation gap emerging in women's issues. I don't think the disadvantages of women today are the same as what they were in the heyday of the women's movement, and there does need to be an adjustment of priorities (ie, women are a majority in higher education; do we really need more scholarships restricted to women?). And more insidiously, the support networks that used to exist for boys and young men have largely crumbled. The severe insecurity reflected in the OP is in fact linked to a real trend that needs to be addressed -- the systematic support of women to the point of creating inequity on the other side of the gender divide.

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06-11-2013, 08:33 AM
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Still better than his arguments on 9/11 and mysticism, though.

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06-11-2013, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Gonna ignore the OP because it's a bunch of garbage.
A common practice on HF, good to see you represent.
Quote:
On the general topic, I am noticing a bit of a generation gap emerging in women's issues. I don't think the disadvantages of women today are the same as what they were in the heyday of the women's movement, and there does need to be an adjustment of priorities (ie, women are a majority in higher education; do we really need more scholarships restricted to women?). And more insidiously, the support networks that used to exist for boys and young men have largely crumbled. The severe insecurity reflected in the OP is in fact linked to a real trend that needs to be addressed -- the systematic support of women to the point of creating inequity on the other side of the gender divide.
"Severe insecurity". Just how much have you read up on feminism (clearly not alot and it doesn't look like it'll increase anytime soon)? How much experience do you have with active feminism? Do you know how the climate of political correctness is here in Sweden, where even our own neighbouring countries are getting openly worried with what the heck is going on here? No? So do you have any clue what you're talking about? This isn't just going on in Merica.

Of course the benefits for women will only increase, since the general situation for women is all they study. The situation for men is irrelevant, their own fault or "victims of the patriarchy".
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Still better than his arguments on 9/11 and mysticism, though.
Yes, because it is well known in history that the actual causes of war are legit when they are presented. Just like the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Or Vietnam. Oh... they were all lies? But this time they're telling the truth, right, because certain people had nothing to gain on all this.

Regarding mysticism, I'm not your teacher. I really don't care enough for you to shovel through books to back up statements. If you don't believe it, don't, I really don't care.


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06-11-2013, 09:12 AM
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All right. Sorry dude, I am going to have to sit this one out. I couldn't even read through your response.

Happy feminist hunting.

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06-11-2013, 09:13 AM
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This thread should provide some coffee and cigarettes to the usual "I am man, here me whine!" crowd on here.

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06-11-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
All right. Sorry dude, I am going to have to sit this one out. I couldn't even read through your response.

Happy feminist hunting.
Yet another poster who just writes whatever unsubstantiated crap that comes up in their minds. If you have absolutely nothing to say, why bother? To show the goon squad your support? Good for you.
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Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
This thread should provide some coffee and cigarettes to the usual "I am man, here me whine!" crowd on here.
And here you are - yet again - without anything of relevance to say, other than chestbumping yourself with your childish playmates and post your memes. If you're supposed to be some sort of criteria for quality posting, you're doing an awful, awful job, because I bet 30,000 of your 31,000+ is a bunch of one liner crap without any substance whatsoever and on the other 1000 posts your account got hijacked.


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06-11-2013, 09:22 AM
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This board certainly has gone downhill, must be summer vacation.

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06-11-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Yet another poster who just writes whatever unsubstantiated crap that comes up in their minds. If you have absolutely nothing to say, why bother?
I tried to start a conversation, but you are too over the top for me. I said I am sorry and backed out. Shouldn't that be considered as good behavior not offensive?

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06-11-2013, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Gonna ignore the OP because it's a bunch of garbage.

On the general topic, I am noticing a bit of a generation gap emerging in women's issues. I don't think the disadvantages of women today are the same as what they were in the heyday of the women's movement, and there does need to be an adjustment of priorities (ie, women are a majority in higher education; do we really need more scholarships restricted to women?). And more insidiously, the support networks that used to exist for boys and young men have largely crumbled. The severe insecurity reflected in the OP is in fact linked to a real trend that needs to be addressed -- the systematic support of women to the point of creating inequity on the other side of the gender divide.
Which makes you wonder how women have continued to be underrepresented in business and politics. That would suggest something is still wrong, wouldn't it? But I think your idea about the generation gap is right, you see a lot of younger people not identifying as feminist, not so much because they don't support the ideas but because they reject the label. In my mind this is a result of three factors: the fact that some of the main goals of the feminist movement have been met, that some radicals have given the movement as a whole a bad name, and (most worrisome) parts of the conservative movement have actively worked to tar the image of feminism.

At its most basic, feminism is the belief that women are equal to men and should be given the same opportunities in life. I don't see how you can "debunk" or reject that unless you're simply a bigot.

EDIT: And as for the claim that men and women are equally victims of domestic violence, I'm pretty sure that's not true. From "Family Violence in Canada: A statistical profile, 2010":
Quote:
Looking at rates, the risk of becoming a victim of police-reported family violence was more than twice as high for girls and women as it was for boys and men (407 per 100,000 versus 180 per 100,000). This heightened risk of family violence among girls and women was true regardless of age, but was most pronounced among those aged 25 to 34 years (Chart 1.3). Females in this age group were over three times more likely than their male counterparts to become a victim of family violence (rate of 709 per 100,000 versus 216 per 100,000 population). The main factor behind females’ increased risk of family violence is related to their higher representation as victims of spousal violence. Women aged 15 years and older accounted for 81% of all spousal violence victims.
So yes, violence against men and boys is definitely a thing and should be dealt with, but you can make that point without falsely claiming that rates are on par with violence against women.


Last edited by rebel diamond: 06-11-2013 at 09:36 AM.
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06-11-2013, 09:30 AM
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Something you should keep in mind Chimp is that the state of "feminism" isn't the same everywhere.

In Toronto, I think we still have more work to do myself.

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06-11-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I tried to start a conversation, but you are too over the top for me. I said I am sorry and backed out. Shouldn't that be considered as good behavior not offensive?
Well, sorry, I missed it was you who I responded to before and thought you were just another goon expressing their opinion of how they don't care, are too lazy, want to derail or just spew nonsense. The usual pack of children quickly set the tone in here - as usual - and I guess this board will never have a civil place of conversation where you can show eachother some normal respect.

Nothing personal, it's just the way the kids in here want it to be and I've read this garbage part of the forum too long to try to be civil anymore towards those crackheads who don't deserve one bit of it. You all know who they are, it's not like this is an unique situation. But if people are civil and show some respect, I will absolutely try to show the same courtesy.
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Something you should keep in mind Chimp is that the state of "feminism" isn't the same everywhere.

In Toronto, I think we still have more work to do myself.
I know. I assume things are slightly different all over the place. But tarheelhockey did, hence why he should shut up about slandering people about "their severe insecurity" and "their garbage". This speech was an example of feminism and political correctness in the United States. Things are a little bit more extreme over here. We have Danish and Norwegian journalists who have engaged in open media war with the Swedish counterparts to question what did go wrong in the Swedish society in particular. I'm not kidding.


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06-11-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
That's the whole thing. Men aren't really that more on the laying side, it's about equal. People are conditioned to grow up in this violent, crazy society and that's exactly what they adapt to.

It doesn't matter if it's the radical feminists that are the ones who've gone haywire, they're the ones that are in power, they lead institutions, they become journalists and they have the passion to take charge of ideological work. That's what happens within a doctrine or dogma, the fanatics get all the social space within a closed bubble of confirmation bias, while those who oppose or criticize are stigmatized, demonized and silenced as heretics and inherently bad people.

If Karen Straughan would've said this and been a white man, she would by all definitions of political correctness been in a lot of trouble.

According to Karen Straughan (I've seen some studies of my own, but not hundreds):
I'd prefer sourced material if you have it, lines like "more than half", "at least five" and "up to 70%" scare me with bias.

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06-11-2013, 09:47 AM
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I'd prefer sourced material if you have it, lines like "more than half", "at least five" and "up to 70%" scare me with bias.
I think you would have to contact Karen if you're interested in her sources for her presented speech. Neither do I feel I have the time to search up articles (scientific and popular science) I've read for you, some in various languages you probably don't understand anyway. If you sincerely want to find sources, you are your own teacher.

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06-11-2013, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
I think you would have to contact Karen if you're interested in her sources for her presented speech. Neither do I feel I have the time to search up articles (scientific and popular science) I've read for you, some in various languages you probably don't understand anyway. If you sincerely want to find sources, you are your own teacher.
Will do, I just want to make you aware that when you present material with that tone of writing, it appears biased.

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