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The first Inductee for HOF 2013 is...

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:55 PM
  #26
Martini*
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I can't stand it when people use the 'think of the children' argument.

The emulation of any action, whether mimicing wrestling, movies/tv or videogames, is a reflection on the parents not being able to raise/control their children.

Someones child does something stupid? Better not blame the parents or the child. Gotta blame the performers and content creators.
For putting such stupid thoughts into their heads in the first place?

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01-12-2013, 06:58 PM
  #27
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For putting such stupid thoughts into their heads in the first place?
If they were raised by reponsible parents that wouldn't be an issue.

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01-12-2013, 07:03 PM
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If they were raised by reponsible parents that wouldn't be an issue.
well....pretty much ^ This

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01-12-2013, 07:19 PM
  #29
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If they were raised by reponsible parents that wouldn't be an issue.
And if entertainment didnt feel the need to exploit people such as Mick Foley and his penchant for abusing himself in a sport that many who grew up a decade before remembered as soft and gentle with Hogan in the WWF, trying to point a finger at parents when those same kids are gonna watch reguardless is kind of a cop out, actually.

I mean, if the product the WWE produces now isnt any indication......

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01-12-2013, 07:36 PM
  #30
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And if entertainment didnt feel the need to exploit people such as Mick Foley and his penchant for abusing himself in a sport that many who grew up a decade before remembered as soft and gentle with Hogan in the WWF, trying to point a finger at parents when those same kids are gonna watch reguardless is kind of a cop out, actually.

I mean, if the product the WWE produces now isnt any indication......
Not a cop out at all, pretty sure responsible parents are very aware that their children will defy them, this doesn't stop them from educating their children to be able to make good choices.

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01-12-2013, 07:40 PM
  #31
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If they were raised by reponsible parents that wouldn't be an issue.
Truth.

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01-12-2013, 09:23 PM
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For himself.

He also has the stigma of being the guy who took extreme brutality from out of the high school gym promotions and bringing it mainstream for little kids to try and emulate and copy. Sorry, but I wouldnt want that on my concience but it doesnt seem to bother Foley the slightest, nor will he ever be held accountable for all the stupid things he did, but thats life while protected by McMahons money.
LOL, okay Mr. Ambrose....

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01-12-2013, 11:47 PM
  #33
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Not a cop out at all, pretty sure responsible parents are very aware that their children will defy them, this doesn't stop them from educating their children to be able to make good choices.
Like watching Mick Foley perform stunts that could possibly kill themselves trying to replicate?

Its funny, but even Foleys wife wouldnt let her kids see what their father was allowing somebody to do to him. Yet, had no problem cashing in a paycheck signed my Vince McMahon. You can only blame parenting for so much and I, imo, consider it a cop out to allow such things as having somebody throw you off of a 16 foot cage or having somebody beat a concussion into you with 15 chair shots to your head and consider yourself a role model to those same children who were crying hysterically when somebody hand cuffed you and hit you repeatedly in the head with an unworked chair. Its a fine line but considering those same parents who should be watching everything their kids do had no problems buying toys for those same kids who watched the product.

And, considering Vince has changed his brand to universally accept kids and cater to them, its obvious somebody took responsiblity for those same kids who were jumping off of buildings and slamming their friends into thumb tacks. WWE distanced themselves from such garbage wrestling and rightly so.

But again, the main cog in the whole garbage wrestling into the main stream wheel was Mick Foley.

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01-13-2013, 12:33 AM
  #34
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Sure you did. Foley stole a bunch of his gimmick from Buzz Sawyer while Sawyer was in Georgia. Not to mention alot of what Foley became was being done in Japan with Leatherface in FMW. Stealing ideas is nothing new in wrestling considering SCSA swiped a ton from Sandman. What seperates Foley is he knew he couldnt keep up that pace of providing stunts that could cripple him and lower his quality of life so he chose to become a comedy act, and more power to him for it.

Valid point on principle but the fact remains such an important part of the history of the monday night wars pales in comparison to the bump Foley took off the cell. The first thing many who have followed wrestling will say first if you bring up Foleys name is that disgust bump, or 15 unprotected chair shots from the Rock over his title win.

Foley had very little talent in terms of wrestling ability, and in turn, had to tell a story by doing the most outlandish things to keep himself on the top of the card. Nobody was stupid enough to allow himself to be thrown off the top of a caged cell....except Foley. Michaels didnt come close to that height. And when you put it into perspective, I dont recall kids recreating Foleys WWF title win while role playing their heroes but do indeed seem to recall kids climbing drastic heights to recreate Foleys bump.

You look at all that is wrong in pro wrestling and you can look no further then Mick Foley for many of the reasons. Chris Benoit, the murderer, took umpteen unprotected chair shots to the skull because Mick Foley set the bar so high in brutality that he had no choice but to take them to keep himself near the top of the card. Couple that fact with Foley being a complete mark for himself and had the ear of Russo who had no problems exploiting any stupid idea Mick Foley came up with and you have one of the most controversial inductions this side of Billy Graham.

The Rock never had to take a crazy bump to be over, neither did SCSA, Undertaker, Ric Flair in his prime, Harley Race, etc,etc. So pardon me if I dont think justification should be in order for a guy who made his careers work HOF worthy by mutilating himself.

People always stop and look at car crashes and train wrecks, doesnt mean they are a positive.
I really get where you are coming from. And I can't refute any of the points. I just loved him still and I can't say why. I never was a fan of injuries happening. I just always had the impression that Foley knew exactly what he was doing and the risk was calculated. Just a gut feeling.

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01-13-2013, 12:35 AM
  #35
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And, considering Vince has changed his brand to universally accept kids and cater to them, its obvious somebody took responsiblity for those same kids who were jumping off of buildings and slamming their friends into thumb tacks. WWE distanced themselves from such garbage wrestling and rightly so.
I don't think that has anything to do with Mick Foley or dangerous spots at all. It's just changing demographics. The big draw now is John Cena, he draws because kids love him. And since kids are the ones watching, it makes sense to surround him with talent that kids are also likely to like.

Of course the edgy guys, the technicians, and the spot monkeys still exist in the PG era, much like the happy-go-lucky faces existed back in 1999. It's just they weren't catering to the core demographic. I don't believe that has anything to do with Mick Foley.

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01-13-2013, 12:52 AM
  #36
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Glorified stunt man who put wrestling into the dark ages with his "anything to stay on the top of the card" actions and posioning of a generation with extreme spots that did nothing but throw the bar out in terms of telling a wrestling story.

His legacy is getting thrown off the top of a 25 foot cage and mutilating himself in Japan. Not my idea of a wrestler but had a huge impact in ruining wrestling to the point that it hasnt recovered even yet.


I'm glad finally Foley goes to the HOF!

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01-13-2013, 06:48 AM
  #37
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Sure you did. Foley stole a bunch of his gimmick from Buzz Sawyer while Sawyer was in Georgia. Not to mention alot of what Foley became was being done in Japan with Leatherface in FMW. Stealing ideas is nothing new in wrestling considering SCSA swiped a ton from Sandman. What seperates Foley is he knew he couldnt keep up that pace of providing stunts that could cripple him and lower his quality of life so he chose to become a comedy act, and more power to him for it.

Valid point on principle but the fact remains such an important part of the history of the monday night wars pales in comparison to the bump Foley took off the cell. The first thing many who have followed wrestling will say first if you bring up Foleys name is that disgust bump, or 15 unprotected chair shots from the Rock over his title win.

Foley had very little talent in terms of wrestling ability, and in turn, had to tell a story by doing the most outlandish things to keep himself on the top of the card. Nobody was stupid enough to allow himself to be thrown off the top of a caged cell....except Foley. Michaels didnt come close to that height. And when you put it into perspective, I dont recall kids recreating Foleys WWF title win while role playing their heroes but do indeed seem to recall kids climbing drastic heights to recreate Foleys bump.

You look at all that is wrong in pro wrestling and you can look no further then Mick Foley for many of the reasons. Chris Benoit, the murderer, took umpteen unprotected chair shots to the skull because Mick Foley set the bar so high in brutality that he had no choice but to take them to keep himself near the top of the card. Couple that fact with Foley being a complete mark for himself and had the ear of Russo who had no problems exploiting any stupid idea Mick Foley came up with and you have one of the most controversial inductions this side of Billy Graham.

The Rock never had to take a crazy bump to be over, neither did SCSA, Undertaker, Ric Flair in his prime, Harley Race, etc,etc. So pardon me if I dont think justification should be in order for a guy who made his careers work HOF worthy by mutilating himself.

People always stop and look at car crashes and train wrecks, doesnt mean they are a positive.
Not to poke holes in your theory but Mick Foley had very little to do with influencing Chris Benoit's style. You can thank Dynamite Kid for that one. I watched Benoit's entire career from his start in Stampede wrestling and had seen him knock himself out with that head butt....pretty sure he didn't copy Foley on that one.

But what the heck let's take it a step further , Jimmy Snuka is the one that influenced Foley , so he should be taken out of the Hall of Fame as well because if he didn't do that jump off of the cage on Muraco then Foley never would have voluntarily got tossed off the cell.

Talkin about car crashes I think that Ford should be sued for every car wreck out there . If they hadn't invented the car then there would be no accidents.

To blame Foley for raising the bar is asinine to say the least. The original Shiek , Abdullah the Butcher , were both big draws and were both incredibly violent and bloody , Foley didn't invent this stuff he just cashed in on it. Besides I would much rather have a dorkey funny guys that falls from great heights then a roided up druggy representing a once great form of entertainment.

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01-13-2013, 10:26 AM
  #38
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Like watching Mick Foley perform stunts that could possibly kill themselves trying to replicate?

Its funny, but even Foleys wife wouldnt let her kids see what their father was allowing somebody to do to him. Yet, had no problem cashing in a paycheck signed my Vince McMahon. You can only blame parenting for so much and I, imo, consider it a cop out to allow such things as having somebody throw you off of a 16 foot cage or having somebody beat a concussion into you with 15 chair shots to your head and consider yourself a role model to those same children who were crying hysterically when somebody hand cuffed you and hit you repeatedly in the head with an unworked chair. Its a fine line but considering those same parents who should be watching everything their kids do had no problems buying toys for those same kids who watched the product.

And, considering Vince has changed his brand to universally accept kids and cater to them, its obvious somebody took responsiblity for those same kids who were jumping off of buildings and slamming their friends into thumb tacks. WWE distanced themselves from such garbage wrestling and rightly so.

But again, the main cog in the whole garbage wrestling into the main stream wheel was Mick Foley.
These lines pretty much prove my point.

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01-13-2013, 03:04 PM
  #39
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Not to poke holes in your theory but Mick Foley had very little to do with influencing Chris Benoit's style. You can thank Dynamite Kid for that one. I watched Benoit's entire career from his start in Stampede wrestling and had seen him knock himself out with that head butt....pretty sure he didn't copy Foley on that one.
He didnt, but you are missing the point of the impact Foley had. Foley, with his stupidity, made such actions as chair shots as common as a body slam, not knowing the ramifications of getting hit in the head with a metal chair had on the human body. Chair shots were all the rage right after Foley had to lower the bar of telling a story by putting it in his move set. That cant be debated. Nor can the entire fascination with garbage wrestling that festered after Foley came around into the WWE. Look no further then Foleys classic with HBK, which introduced high risk moves during a time when they really didnt need to do it, its just that Foley couldnt work a match and had to compromise his lack of skill with shock value.

The murderer, Chirs Benoit, could work a match and was indeed a DK clone, but the reality is DK is reguarded as one of the greatest workers of all time and wasnt hitting people in the head with metal chairs to tell a story. They pulled up numbers when the entrie Benoit murder played out and one year Benoit had something like 300 chair shots to the head. Far from using the flying headbutt as an example which is, first and foremost, a worked move, but couple the head butt with all of those chair shots, and you have a start as to why his brain was on par with an eldery with Alzheimers.

Who brought garbage wrestling into the main stream? Foley.
Whose disreguard for his very own body made moves such as chair shots common? Foley
Who raised the bar of brutality to the point that these high impact moves suddenly became yet another move in many a moveset to get bover after seeing what kind of impact they had with fans? Foley

Very few had the talent to perform at the level of Tom Billington. Anybody can pick up a chair and swing it around.
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But what the heck let's take it a step further , Jimmy Snuka is the one that influenced Foley , so he should be taken out of the Hall of Fame as well because if he didn't do that jump off of the cage on Muraco then Foley never would have voluntarily got tossed off the cell.
Jimmy Snuka was a gifted worker who was also one of the best in the sport at the time of his superfly leap. He also told a story in the ring and during that match, used the leap as a climax to end the feud. Last time I checked, Foley climbed a cage and was thrown off maybe three minutes in, shock just to shock. There was no story in getting thrown off a cage when Foley did it, just stunt work.Foley has, also, countless incarnations of paying hommage to the superfly leap and, again, went to an extreme to top it.

Think about this; if you knew people still talked about the superfly leap to this day, you dont think if you went to extreme lengths to top it, people wouldnt be talking about you also? Foley is a mark for himself, and the only match anybody wants to talk about to him is the cell match, and, even Foley himself will tell you thats his legacy. I mean, I am no psychiatrist by any streach but the fact remains when you get a fan and turn him into a pro wrestler, when that same fan has very little wrestling talent, you are gonna get garbage to the point of self mutilation so that very same fan can be reguarded, in his own mind, mind you, that he belongs in the same breath as those who he idolized as a child. So, trying to blame Snuka for the corners Foley cut is kind of moot.
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Talkin about car crashes I think that Ford should be sued for every car wreck out there . If they hadn't invented the car then there would be no accidents.
Let me know when Ford has been considered weekly entertainment that has been marketed to kids,
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To blame Foley for raising the bar is asinine to say the least. The original Shiek , Abdullah the Butcher , were both big draws and were both incredibly violent and bloody , Foley didn't invent this stuff he just cashed in on it. Besides I would much rather have a dorkey funny guys that falls from great heights then a roided up druggy representing a once great form of entertainment.
Neither were stunt man masquerading as pro wrestlers, either.

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01-13-2013, 03:06 PM
  #40
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These lines pretty much prove my point.
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Like watching Mick Foley perform stunts that could possibly kill themselves trying to replicate?

Its funny, but even Foleys wife wouldnt let her kids see what their father was allowing somebody to do to him. Yet, had no problem cashing in a paycheck signed my Vince McMahon. You can only blame parenting for so much and I, imo, consider it a cop out to allow such things as having somebody throw you off of a 16 foot cage or having somebody beat a concussion into you with 15 chair shots to your head and consider yourself a role model to those same children who were crying hysterically when somebody hand cuffed you and hit you repeatedly in the head with an unworked chair. Its a fine line but considering those same parents who should be watching everything their kids do had no problems buying toys for those same kids who watched the product.

And, considering Vince has changed his brand to universally accept kids and cater to them, its obvious somebody took responsiblity for those same kids who were jumping off of buildings and slamming their friends into thumb tacks. WWE distanced themselves from such garbage wrestling and rightly so.

But again, the main cog in the whole garbage wrestling into the main stream wheel was Mick Foley.

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01-13-2013, 03:23 PM
  #41
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Martini comes alive as the heel on the board looking to stir the pot in all threads. I was just checking out the HIAC DVD that was given to me for Christmas, and was amazed by some tremendous promo work by Foley. His Mankind character was tremendous. A great on the mic.

I feel like ya have to give him more credit.

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01-13-2013, 03:26 PM
  #42
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Martini comes alive as the heel on the board looking to stir the pot in all threads. I was just checking out the HIAC DVD that was given to me for Christmas, and was amazed by some tremendous promo work by Foley. His Mankind character was tremendous. A great on the mic.

I feel like ya have to give him more credit.
On his promo's? Foley was epic.

His work rate? Another story.

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01-13-2013, 03:51 PM
  #43
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I highlighted the only relevant points to the argument. It's irrelevant whether or not he cashes cheques or sees himself as a role model.

It's up to the parents to regulate their children, teach them right and wrong and set a good example. If children are looking at wrestlers for their morals then their parents have failed on a fundamental level.

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01-13-2013, 07:25 PM
  #44
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King Kong Buddy is being discussed as an inductee this year.

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01-13-2013, 08:44 PM
  #45
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King Kong Buddy is being discussed as an inductee this year.
The five count was a great gimmick. As a kid I remember the Bundy and Big John Stud / Hulk Hogan and Andre feud. From what I've read, he's a likable guy; he calls everyone "little man"

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01-14-2013, 10:00 PM
  #46
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Seth Rollins ‏@WWERollins
@realMickFoley in the #HOF is true injustice. Hardcore legend? The man ruined a generation and anyone who supports him is a sycophant.

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01-14-2013, 11:17 PM
  #47
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Seth Rollins ‏@WWERollins
@realMickFoley in the #HOF is true injustice. Hardcore legend? The man ruined a generation and anyone who supports him is a sycophant.

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01-15-2013, 12:55 PM
  #48
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King Kong Bundy isn't being inducted in the WWE Hall of Fame.

There's talk of Kamala being inducted in the Hall of Fame this year.


Last edited by M.C.G. 31: 01-15-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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01-15-2013, 02:17 PM
  #49
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King Kong "Buddy" is my new favorite name.

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01-15-2013, 02:21 PM
  #50
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****.

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