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Old
01-13-2013, 01:56 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Been around hockey likely longer than you.....but that has nothing to do with this discussion. The capologist will be busier then a one legged man in an ass kicking contest this coming off season.
I'm curious how long that's been? Since I'm becoming an old man now, I don't see too many people here who've been around longer than me, and having followed hockey since the 70's.

And of course the capologist will be busy... what does that have to do with anything? The bottom line is that there are plenty of options, to go along with an owner with deep pockets with a history of spending money to help the organization (including eating salary in the minors and paying much more in salary than the cap ceiling the team has).

So tell me again, how are the Canucks in a world of hurt with their cap situation, when they can easily drop 3 contracts (even if two are bought out), without worrying about any return they get for them, while still being a top contender, and still being well under the cap after getting rid of those contracts.

Do you really think that the Canucks go from contenders to rebuilders if they simply drop Booth, Ballard and Luongo from their roster and replace them with cheaper options? We already have a quality starter in Schneider without Luongo there... and neither Booth nor Ballard play big roles on the team.

Is that your definition of "a world of hurt"??

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01-13-2013, 01:59 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Trades, movement, changing circumstances are a fact of life in the NHL.

Being subjected to months of trade rumours, and being treated like cattle up for auction with no resolution doesn't need to be.
LOL....hilarious.

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01-13-2013, 01:59 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by DanCloutiers5hole View Post
Just because Gillis hasn't said it in public doesn't mean they haven't discussed things indoors. Why bring things out in the open if it isn't necessary. Do you seriously think the two dont sit down and have disscusions!?! If you think that's unaccommodating im sorry but your just grasping at straws to try to make a point.......its not working, its never gonna work
You bring it out in public because it's fair to Luongo and those around him, and there's no reason not to.

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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
What difference does that make when the market is so inherently unpredictable that you can never know what the market for a goalie is? It could be completely different tomorrow!
Chances are, the market tomorrow is going to be the same, or slightly different than the market today. You make your call based on the market today, like any other move. Otherwise teams would be signing 1-day contracts.

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01-13-2013, 02:00 AM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Been around hockey likely longer than you.....but that has nothing to do with this discussion. The capologist will be busier then a one legged man in an ass kicking contest this coming off season.
Yet you give us no insight on your brilliance.

Please tell us how screwed Laurence Gilman will be.

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Old
01-13-2013, 02:03 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Chances are, the market tomorrow is going to be the same, or slightly different than the market today. You make your call based on the market today, like any other move. Otherwise teams would be signing 1-day contracts.
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The problem with your post is, nobody can really say whether there's a "small market for a goalie" or "large market for a goalie"... as at any time, the market can increase or decrease.
A bit contradictory here, though I'm quite sure you won't recognize it.

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01-13-2013, 02:03 AM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'm not sure how much you're treated like cattle at your job.... but I suspect like everyone in this world, it's a job that you have as a result of your intelligence & skill level.

When you're talking about ultra high skill labour, treating them as cattle is not acceptable.



Quite negatively. It destroys his credibility as a general manager.

It's one thing to change your mind when circumstances become substantially changed (heck, without that, trades would be non-existent)...It's another to trade a guy shortly after making a commitment, simply because it's not practical for circumstances to change substantially.
I'm an artist. If people like what I do, or find value in it in some manner, then I sell paintings. You won't find a job that is more "commodity like", or cattle like to use your term, than what I do. It doesn't bother me much, because the job itself has so many other benefits.

Perhaps you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Back to your comment above. You are the one demanding that they immediately move Luongo or say they'll keep him, and only then does moving him a month later become the poor treatment issue. You are actually creating a problem that doesn't even exist. Luongo isn't saying anything close to what you're claiming, and in fact the opposite is clearly and publicly the case.

Do you not see this?

Also, are advocating treating less skilled folks as cattle? Doesn't see right to me ...

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Old
01-13-2013, 02:06 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
You bring it out in public because it's fair to Luongo and those around him, and there's no reason not to.
Teams don't just make decisions: "We are not trading x player no matter what." And even when they do, it's sually meaningless, as over time many things can happen to change the way a player is viewed.

If Gillis has several offers from teams that were unoffically discussed during the lockout, he's not going to announce to the world Luongo is going to be traded. And if there are no offers he likes, he's not going to say Luongo won't be traded. things can change in an instant, for example rumours that Kulikov doesn't want to re-sign with Florida, or if(hypothetically) Lupul doesn't want to re-sign in Toronto. This might make available players who weren't before.

Although I am curious, in your opinion, is there any way that Vancouver keeps Luongo to start the season?

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01-13-2013, 02:07 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
You bring it out in public because it's fair to Luongo and those around him, and there's no reason not to.



Chances are, the market tomorrow is going to be the same, or slightly different than the market today. You make your call based on the market today, like any other move. Otherwise teams would be signing 1-day contracts.

No, you don't make your call based on the market today. You make your call based secondary and tertiary markets inherent to the sport _alongside_ the fluctuations that can occur during the course of a season. For instance, a market inherent to the sport is the deadline. It often inflates value beyond what it is today. So in that sense, no, the market tomorrow is not going to be the same as it is today. History tells us this.

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01-13-2013, 02:07 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
I'm curious how long that's been? Since I'm becoming an old man now, I don't see too many people here who've been around longer than me, and having followed hockey since the 70's.

And of course the capologist will be busy... what does that have to do with anything? The bottom line is that there are plenty of options, to go along with an owner with deep pockets with a history of spending money to help the organization (including eating salary in the minors and paying much more in salary than the cap ceiling the team has).

So tell me again, how are the Canucks in a world of hurt with their cap situation, when they can easily drop 3 contracts (even if two are bought out), without worrying about any return they get for them, while still being a top contender, and still being well under the cap after getting rid of those contracts.

Do you really think that the Canucks go from contenders to rebuilders if they simply drop Booth, Ballard and Luongo from their roster and replace them with cheaper options? We already have a quality starter in Schneider without Luongo there... and neither Booth nor Ballard play big roles on the team.

Is that your definition of "a world of hurt"??
I was at the Stanley cup Parade when the Leafs last won the cup......

They need to sign players....and for cheap....they will be stuck in no mans land as far as being in a rebuild or a contender .....a good team with limited cap space to improve.

Teams also can't bury players in the minor leagues for salary-cap reasons no longer. It should be interesting to see what happens.

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01-13-2013, 02:08 AM
  #435
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So, seanlinden, who is the GM in the NHL that hasn't traded a player he's endorsed? So far, you've claimed everyone but Holmgren, but that's incorrect as I pointed out.

Seriously, one General Manager.

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01-13-2013, 02:10 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I was at the Stanley cup Parade when the Leafs last won the cup......

They need to sign players....and for cheap....they will be stuck in no mans land as far as being in a rebuild or a contender .....a good team with limited cap space to improve.

Teams also can't bury players in the minor leagues for salary-cap reasons no longer. It should be interesting to see what happens.
Teams always figure out ways to cope. The Canucks have consistently managed their cap space as good as any team in the league and I have no doubt that will continue.

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01-13-2013, 02:10 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
You bring it out in public because it's fair to Luongo and those around him, and there's no reason not to.



Chances are, the market tomorrow is going to be the same, or slightly different than the market today. You make your call based on the market today, like any other move. Otherwise teams would be signing 1-day contracts.
When has a GM in the history of sports ever done this in a situation where there is absolutely no bad blood with the parties involved ?

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Old
01-13-2013, 02:12 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by NeoCanuck View Post
Yet you give us no insight on your brilliance.

Please tell us how screwed Laurence Gilman will be.
Thanks for the compliment.......I'm sure even you can understand that Canucks will need to shed salary next year so that they can sign enough players to ice a team.

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01-13-2013, 02:13 AM
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I was at the Stanley cup Parade when the Leafs last won the cup......

They need to sign players....and for cheap....they will be stuck in no mans land as far as being in a rebuild or a contender .....a good team with limited cap space to improve.

Teams also can't bury players in the minor leagues for salary-cap reasons no longer. It should be interesting to see what happens.
So the Canucks need cap space now more than they could use a top flight tandem of goaltenders? I guess I don't understand how this is the case.

What you are advocating would have had the Blackhawks make trades rather than making that cup run. I'm pretty sure there is not a single Hawk fan lamenting the fact their team won a cup.

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01-13-2013, 02:16 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Thanks for the compliment.......I'm sure even you can understand that Canucks will need to shed salary next year so that they can sign enough players to ice a team.
Except it's already been mentioned how they're going to have very little difficulty doing just that. Personally, I'd rather keep Luongo with the team if the return he garners doesn't improve the club. I really want the team to win a cup, not have cap space.

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01-13-2013, 02:16 AM
  #441
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Teams always figure out ways to cope. The Canucks have consistently managed their cap space as good as any team in the league and I have no doubt that will continue.
Well they will have no choice....they will need to shed salary and sign a whole lot of young cheap players.

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01-13-2013, 02:17 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I was at the Stanley cup Parade when the Leafs last won the cup......

They need to sign players....and for cheap....they will be stuck in no mans land as far as being in a rebuild or a contender .....a good team with limited cap space to improve.

Teams also can't bury players in the minor leagues for salary-cap reasons no longer. It should be interesting to see what happens.
Or instead of going in with the hope of resigning cheap players, we go with Jensen for Booth, Lack for Luongo and KConn/Corrado/Sauve for Ballard. All under a million each, all will require 0 risk of having them stolen from us in the free agent market, 0 pressure to sign someone that might not be a fit, and 0 chance we're stuck having to give someone else away. 13.78 million, minus .9, .875 and between .700 and I think .900 million, and we're under the cap regardless, even resigning all our other UFAs for their current respective cap hits.

The only contracts we've buried in the past on the Canucks were cap dumps in trades, Lukowich or Reinprecht, either of which we could have afforded if we didn't have better options, so we're fine with that.

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01-13-2013, 02:17 AM
  #443
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Thanks for the compliment.......I'm sure even you can understand that Canucks will need to shed salary next year so that they can sign enough players to ice a team.
Buy-out/trade Ballard(4.2 mil). Let Raymond(2.2) and Malhotra(2.5) walk.

Replace with Connauton, Schroeder, and Jensen(or vets signed to cheap contracts, like Arnott or something).

Easy.

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01-13-2013, 02:19 AM
  #444
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So the Canucks need cap space now more than they could use a top flight tandem of goaltenders? I guess I don't understand how this is the case.

What you are advocating would have had the Blackhawks make trades rather than making that cup run. I'm pretty sure there is not a single Hawk fan lamenting the fact their team won a cup.
Funny that you mention the Hawks.....as that is exactly where you will be following this season.....I never said this season now did I?

The Difference is that you can not ship out salary to remove it off the books like the Hawks did....as that road has been closed.

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01-13-2013, 02:20 AM
  #445
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Well they will have no choice....they will need to shed salary and sign a whole lot of young cheap players.
We've got them signed already though...and even with Ballard being bought out, Luongo being traded (presumably), and with Raymond, Malhotra, Higgins, Lapierre, Alberts and, if need be, Edler, being allowed to walk, we have plenty of flexibility. The cap isn't a threat to our team.

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01-13-2013, 02:22 AM
  #446
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01-13-2013, 02:23 AM
  #447
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Funny that you mention the Hawks.....as that is exactly where you will be following this season.....I never said this season now did I?

The Difference is that you can not ship out salary to remove it off the books like the Hawks did....as that road has been closed.
Nearly all the cap space they cleared was through trade though...Huet aside. Versteeg, Ladd, Byfuglien, Brower, Niemi (actually a RFA signing), Campbell (eventually)...none were bought our or dumped in the minors.

And we're not in the same trouble as Chicago was either.

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01-13-2013, 02:24 AM
  #448
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Good night!
Please...

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01-13-2013, 02:26 AM
  #449
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Well they will have no choice....they will need to shed salary and sign a whole lot of young cheap players.
What's your point? Buyouts to Ballard and Booth solve that issue if there are no other options. Time to move along.

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01-13-2013, 02:26 AM
  #450
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Funny that you mention the Hawks.....as that is exactly where you will be following this season.....I never said this season now did I?

The Difference is that you can not ship out salary to remove it off the books like the Hawks did....as that road has been closed.
Sorry, do you mind explaining what salary problems they'll be facing? As others have posted here, there doesn't seem to be an issue, but maybe they're incorrect?

Also, what do you mean by "ship out salary"? The Hawks were just forced to make trades ... which was clear to everyone. It was a gamble they made that paid off handsomely. It's a stretch to even portray the Canucks in this fashion, as they aren't anywhere close to being that much over the cap ceiling.

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