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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals) ‎

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:28 PM
  #926
Vankiller Whale
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Gillis = lying scum bag just trying to raise Luongo's value.
Nonis = benevolent and patient GM who would never lie about being willing to trade young players for an upgrade in net.

Seems legit.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:30 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
If Nonis has no other options in net he will be under pressure to get Luongo especially if Reimer plays like last year early on. If I'm Gillis I'd be patient. He's already outwaited Burke and I would have to think Nonis is under a lot of pressure to show improvement especially since he has by many accounts been acting GM for the last few years. I don't think he has the luxury of time like most new GM's would. If the Leafs stumble out of the gate because of poor goaltending then Gillis should be able to increase the price.
This is where i think you are wrong. If Nonis has any intention of getting Luongo it will be now. If we start with Reimer...we'll run with him good or bad. In a 48 game season, you don't have the luxury of running bad the first 10-15 games and then tweaking. That is why i said earlier, if a deal isn't today or tomorrow...it won't. Just my opinion.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:35 PM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Gillis = lying scum bag just trying to raise Luongo's value.
Nonis = benevolent and patient GM who would never lie about being willing to trade young players for an upgrade in net.

Seems legit.

Gillis = willing to wait it out with $9.3M tied up in goaltending most of which is attributed to a goalie with a No Trade Clause who no longer wants to be there.

Nonis = desperate for a goalie, needs to expedite the re-build now and therefore should trade top prospects to vancouver. nonis should trade the farm because apparently, luongo will only accept a trade to FLA or TOR.

Seems legit.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:37 PM
  #929
Al Swearengen
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Originally Posted by CJV123 View Post
Guessing this was mentioned upthread:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/h...#ixzz2Htuz22vs

There's been a lot more interest in Roberto than people wanted to recognize because the contract was onerous or difficult,” Gillis said. “That has never been mentioned to me by one team. I know some people like to make a big deal of that but it's a very friendly contract for a lot of reasons. That's one of the reasons why in the new collective agreement there are penalties and you can't sign these types of contracts because they are favourable. So contract is not an issue.”

amazing- Gillis now claims the long-term contracts are pro-team and it was the players association that wanted to cap the length of these deals. Gillis apparently feels he can poop out of his mouth and not be called out on it.
Those long-term contracts are the very definition of "pro-team", since they allow teams to sign players for cap hits lower than those of shorter term deals.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:37 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
This is where i think you are wrong. If Nonis has any intention of getting Luongo it will be now. If we start with Reimer...we'll run with him good or bad. In a 48 game season, you don't have the luxury of running bad the first 10-15 games and then tweaking. That is why i said earlier, if a deal isn't today or tomorrow...it won't. Just my opinion.
I agree with you on the first half but I think they have until next weekend to get a deal done. Last I checked the season started next Saturday.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:37 PM
  #931
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Luongo is not being traded. I think 50 different threads and a full blown lockout and hes still a Canuck should be proof enough.

Gillis is looking too hard for a perfect deal.

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01-13-2013, 05:37 PM
  #932
vanwest
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
This is where i think you are wrong. If Nonis has any intention of getting Luongo it will be now. If we start with Reimer...we'll run with him good or bad. In a 48 game season, you don't have the luxury of running bad the first 10-15 games and then tweaking. That is why i said earlier, if a deal isn't today or tomorrow...it won't. Just my opinion.
Fair enough. I disagree. Burke just got fired in part because ownerhsip is getting impatient. I think that Gillis feels that Nonis is probably bluffing right now when he says he will be patient etc. The firing of Burke makes a deal highly likely before the season starts but if I'm Gillis I would be patient.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:37 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Nonis is on record saying that he is more patient than Burke. Nonis's job is not on the line. It's even debatable that ownership expects the Leafs to make the playoffs this year. All in all I believe Nonis passes on Luongo and acquires a much cheaper alternative to help mentor Reimer and Scrivens.

I hope I'm wrong. I really want Toronto to do well out of the gate. IMO, Nonis was not the guy for the job. Sure he knows the organization but I think he is "mini me" (Burke's).
to be fair, Burke's job was supposedly not on the line not even a week ago

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:38 PM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyFrisco View Post
Gillis = willing to wait it out with $9.3M tied up in goaltending most of which is attributed to a goalie with a No Trade Clause who no longer wants to be there.

Nonis = desperate for a goalie, needs to expedite the re-build now and therefore should trade top prospects to vancouver. nonis should trade the farm because apparently, luongo will only accept a trade to FLA or TOR.

Seems legit.
Works in theory, but here's the problem. If you take Nonis' word at face value, then you have to do the same with Gillis. And in doing so, we have multiple teams inquiring about Luongon, thus insinuating he has considerably more value than a good amount of your fanbase likes to believe.

Can't have it both ways. Either Gillis and Nonis are posturing or neither is.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:40 PM
  #935
Al Swearengen
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Luongo is not being traded. I think 50 different threads and a full blown lockout and hes still a Canuck should be proof enough.

Gillis is looking too hard for a perfect deal.
Does not compute, friend. What do HF threads have to do with Luongo? And lockouts stall possible action on trading, so... what are you talking about?

If I ever had a GM who isn't looking hard for a perfect deal, I'll be upset.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:40 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJV123 View Post
Guessing this was mentioned upthread:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/h...#ixzz2Htuz22vs

There's been a lot more interest in Roberto than people wanted to recognize because the contract was onerous or difficult,” Gillis said. “That has never been mentioned to me by one team. I know some people like to make a big deal of that but it's a very friendly contract for a lot of reasons. That's one of the reasons why in the new collective agreement there are penalties and you can't sign these types of contracts because they are favourable. So contract is not an issue.”

amazing- Gillis now claims the long-term contracts are pro-team and it was the players association that wanted to cap the length of these deals. Gillis apparently feels he can poop out of his mouth and not be called out on it.

You're not particularly skilled at reading, are you?

Gary Bettman wanted these front-loaded contracts out, because they allow rich teams to spend more than the cap, but still be under the cap. Some people have called it cap circumvention.

The teams didn't want to get rid of them - the league did as a cost-controlling measure.

You need to try harder. Gillis is right. Luongo's contract is not a negative, it's a positive. Good cap hit. Long-term cost certainty at the position.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:42 PM
  #937
vanwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyFrisco View Post
Gillis = willing to wait it out with $9.3M tied up in goaltending most of which is attributed to a goalie with a No Trade Clause who no longer wants to be there.

Nonis = desperate for a goalie, needs to expedite the re-build now and therefore should trade top prospects to vancouver. nonis should trade the farm because apparently, luongo will only accept a trade to FLA or TOR.

Seems legit.
Only on HFF, would a GM with two great goalies be seen as being more desperate than a GM with none.
After reading all summer how Burke would simply outwait Gillis, I think it's become pretty clear that Leaf ownership wants to start seeing results. I think Nonis is trying to bluff here. I can't blame him but I don't think Gillis is buying it. We'll see.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:42 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Luongo is not being traded. I think 50 different threads and a full blown lockout and hes still a Canuck should be proof enough.

Gillis is looking too hard for a perfect deal.
perhaps he's trying to be patient, everyone thinks he's under a lot of pressure and wants him to cave to a bad deal. it's a hard trade to execute in the first place, getting something fair isn't going to be easy for a guy as stubborn as gillis. i think luongo will be traded after the season starts.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:42 PM
  #939
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How come Burke isn't still around then?
Burkes attitude. Obvious when you listen to the press conferences.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:43 PM
  #940
PhillyFrisco
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Works in theory, but here's the problem. If you take Nonis' word at face value, then you have to do the same with Gillis. And in doing so, we have multiple teams inquiring about Luongon, thus insinuating he has considerably more value than a good amount of your fanbase likes to believe.

Can't have it both ways. Either Gillis and Nonis are posturing or neither is.

Both of them are full of ****.

I'm taking neither of their words at face value. That said, if the table were flipped, there is no chance in hell that Vancouver would deal their top prospects for an aging goalie (albeit elite) if they are not ready to contend.

Gillis seems to completely disregard this fact and is shooting for the moon even though Lu has a NTC. Nucks should be happy to receive similar value to a 1st round pick as the centerpiece of any trade for Lu.

With no NTC, Lu's value should be closer to something similar to two 1st round picks + a contributing roster player.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:44 PM
  #941
7even
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Fair enough. I disagree. Burke just got fired in part because ownerhsip is getting impatient. I think that Gillis feels that Nonis is probably bluffing right now when he says he will be patient etc. The firing of Burke makes a deal highly likely before the season starts but if I'm Gillis I would be patient.
The closest reason we have as to why Burke was fired is because management "didn't like his style." Nonis is Burke's protege. I don't think he's going to rush into a deal Burke wasn't prepared to make. Therefore I don't think a deal is any more or less likely.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:45 PM
  #942
vanwest
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I think you have the situations backwards.

From all the reports I have read in TO it seems that Nonis is going to be patient with the current team, meaning a last place finish is not a horrendous thing in the eyes of ownership. These could just be soundbytes appeasing Leafs fans, but I haven't been given any reason to think that the new owners want to mortgage the future to maybe squeak into 8th to get killed by Boston.

I can't see the Leafs making a desperation trade this season, regardless of the on ice product.

Personally Im indifferent to Lu on the Leafs, we would be better with him but not better enough to compete with the big guns.

Without him we will probably get another choice pick in a deep draft.

Im happy either way.
I could have sworn that Burke just got fired last week in part for failing to get results. And you're now trying to tell me that the de facto GM for the last 3 or 4 years is under no pressure to succeed.
Sorry, but I'm not buying that. We heard the same line about Burke all summer and look where he is. Nonis is on a short leash.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:46 PM
  #943
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by PhillyFrisco View Post
Both of them are full of ****.

I'm taking neither of their words at face value. That said, if the table were flipped, there is no chance in hell that Vancouver would deal their top prospects for an aging goalie (albeit elite) if they are not ready to contend.

Gillis seems to completely disregard this fact and is shooting for the moon even though Lu has a NTC. Nucks should be happy to receive similar value to a 1st round pick as the centerpiece of any trade for Lu.

With no NTC, Lu's value should be closer to something similar to two 1st round picks + a contributing roster player.
The NTC only makes a difference if Luongo uses it. No one knows where Luongo will/won't waive to.

Florida is likely a given. Edmonton was his favourite team growing up. Philly is a cup contender. When asked if he would waive to play in Chicago/Toronto, he said he'd like to play anywhere with a passionante fanbase.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:47 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Luongo is not being traded. I think 50 different threads and a full blown lockout and hes still a Canuck should be proof enough.

Gillis is looking too hard for a perfect deal.
You guys know that no trades could happen during the lock out right? Really you didn't? Wow.

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:47 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
The closest reason we have as to why Burke was fired is because management "didn't like his style." Nonis is Burke's protege. I don't think he's going to rush into a deal Burke wasn't prepared to make. Therefore I don't think a deal is any more or less likely.
Burke said it was because he didn't win enough games and I agree with him. You can be a jerk as long as you win. Bill Bellichuk in New England is a good example of that.
I think Nonis needs to make a deal but obviously not at any cost. The pressure is definitely on him to improve the goaltending before the puck drops though.Gillis is right to be patient here. Worst case is that Vancouver runs part of the season with two great goalies. Most likely scenario is Nonis agreeing to a deal before next Saturday.

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01-13-2013, 05:48 PM
  #946
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Burkes attitude. Obvious when you listen to the press conferences.
His success rate with the Leafs had nothing to do with it then?

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Old
01-13-2013, 05:48 PM
  #947
Al Swearengen
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You guys know that no trades could happen during the lock out right? Really you didn't? Wow.
I think its best not to lump him in with anybody else.

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01-13-2013, 05:49 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Gillis = lying scum bag just trying to raise Luongo's value.
Nonis = benevolent and patient GM who would never lie about being willing to trade young players for an upgrade in net.

Seems legit.
The same seems to go both ways. Many Canuck fans take Gillis at his word and still are sure Burke was fired for not going after Luongo despite the team and media denying that.

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01-13-2013, 05:49 PM
  #949
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If anyone thinks there is a GM out there that is going to be less likely to deal for Luongo, or hesitate in dealing for him because 7 years from now their team could be on the hook for a $2M penalty, you're out to lunch. GM's are in the business of improving their teams for the here and now, not worrying about what will likely be a miniscule amount 7 years down the line. If any GM trades for Luongo now and is still the GM of said team 7 years from now then it's a good bet that the Luongo trade worked out for them.

Roberto is one of the best players that has been available in recent memory. The impact he would have on many teams is unmatched from any other player that could be available now and likely in the near future. Rick Nash is probably closest comparable recently, but the difference in that situation was he demanded a trade and told Howson to trade him to one of 4 teams, Roberto has done nothing of the sort.


Last edited by Peter Griffin: 01-13-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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Old
01-13-2013, 05:51 PM
  #950
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I could have sworn that Burke just got fired last week in part for failing to get results. And you're now trying to tell me that the de facto GM for the last 3 or 4 years is under no pressure to succeed.
Sorry, but I'm not buying that. We heard the same line about Burke all summer and look where he is. Nonis is on a short leash.
Again, Burkes attitude was the main reason for the decision. If results were a factor the entire management group would have been dissolved, not extended.

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