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Rant of the day - a little OT

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02-28-2005, 01:01 PM
  #1
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Rant of the day - a little OT

I'm sorry to start a thread about this, but since there's no more CBA discussions on HF boards, I have to start finding new ways to kill all the dead time I have at work, so i've been doing a bit of browsing on other teams boards...

And I have to say that there is no other board as entertaining as the Leafs board, I read some of the funniest post over there, I thought Habs fans, and our board were bad boy was I wrong...

For example...

They have a thread about David Ling...read that again, David Ling , you know things are really, really bad when you start a threat about David Ling, and the worst part is people are actually participating in it, some of them actually think he has a future...considering all the players that will retire on their roster whenever NHL comes back, Ling will probably make their roster, but I can't believe that their fans feel this is a good thing....

Again, I feel horrible for starting a thread like this, but in a way, I truly feel sorry for their fans, I think they're either in denial of what is happening to their team as everyday goes by, everyday that goes by their #1 goaltender gets closer to retirement or ineffectiveness due to age, everyday their #1 d-man Leetch(who's a UFA) gets older and closer to retirement, same goes for Nieuwendyk, Mogilny, Roberts and a few others, Owen Nolan not only getting older, but he's been ineffective since he was acquired and makes a ton of cash, I think they're trying to get rid of him anyways, good luck finding a taker, behind Belfour, they have Tellqvist...enough said....

Sure, their are a few bright lights in St Johns in Stajan, Coliacovo, Wellwood, White, Williams, but only 2 of those players can be considered legitimate NHL prospects, the rest still have a great deal to prove and IMO, aren't ready to step in right now....

Then you have your captain, your best player in Mats Sundin, who IMO was one of the more underrated players of the past 10 years, but who's coming to the point where his point totals are declining as well as his skills, he's still among the best pivots in the East, but no longer capable of carrying his team all the way without some assistance, add the fact that he's probably going to lose both his wingers to retirement or ineffectiveness, and it doesn't leave much hope for the captain, are they going to reform the "vaunted" SKY line with Sundin instead of soon to be retired Nieuwendyk? and if they do so? what happens to the rest of the team, are they hoping for kilger to step in a finally assume the role that he couldn't assume with countless other teams? is one of the ugliest athletes in the world, Harold Druken ready to step into the 2nd line center role with oft travelled David Ling on his right and Darcy Tucker on his left? Is Brad Leeb going to be able to play vs. opposing teams top lines night in night out and fufill the promise he showed when he was signed as a free agent by the Canucks 6 years ago?Is Nik Antropov going to learn how to skate?

I think you get my point, i'm not trying to be sarcastic, but when you talk to Leafs fans and even if you listen to some quotes by their GM and coach, this is what they would have you believe?
And I truly feel sorry for Leafs fans, because they're believing it now, I know as a Habs fan, how it feels to have your team gutted of it's prospects without them even getting a trial, we suffered through about 8 years of suffering because of our bad drafting, bad trading and mishandling of players, it's plain to see, that that's where the Leafs are going, they won't be able to patch holes anymore via UFA signings, i'm extremely curious to know what they're going to do...


Now on a side note, i've been reading some of their other threads, and it makes me laugh when they compare their prospects to ours, in no way am I saying that we have the best prospects, but IMO it's not comparable, we currently have about 6 prospects who IMO are ready to challenge for a spot with the Habs, I challenge Leafs fans to even find 6 prospects (Ling, Druken, Leeb, Perrott aren't prospects BTW)who might get into an NHL game next year assuming there is one...I can see Stajan, Coliacovo, Steen and maybe Wellwood for a few games, but who else is there, Ian White? Kukumberg?Williams?Mithchell?...if that's the case and those players are ready to play with the Leafs, well I guess the Habs will not only have, Komisarek, Hossa, Hainsey, Perezhogin, Plekanec and Higgins all getting a shot to play with the Habs next year, you can add to those names, Korneev, Grabovsky, Kostitsyn, Milroy and Locke all playing as well...

Sorry is this causes a problem mods or if it's too long, i'm actually practising writing, i'm going to school next year in Journalism, specifically sports journalism, I try to write articles everyday to practice i obviously need still need practicing, but hey + it's Monday, I had a crappy weekend, and I just wanted to rant...

later

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02-28-2005, 01:05 PM
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:lol

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02-28-2005, 01:07 PM
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Just one point...

In the last six years, the Habs only made the playoffs two times.
In the last six years, the Leafs have made the playoffs all six times while making it to the third round twice.

And as of this moment, you should not be criticizing the current situation the Leafs are in. The Habs aren't any better... in fact, they are probably worse.

I understand why you had to make this rant of the day. Jealousy makes you do stupid things.

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02-28-2005, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Just one point...

In the last six years, the Habs only made the playoffs two times.
In the last six years, the Leafs have made the playoffs all six times while making it to the third round twice.

And as of this moment, you should not be criticizing the current situation the Leafs are in. The Habs aren't any better... in fact, they are probably worse.

I understand why you had to make this rant of the day. Jealousy makes you do stupid things.



Worse situation!!! thanks for the laugh!

an explanation would make you look better... actually if you wanted to lose some credibility, you just found a good way to do so!

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02-28-2005, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Just one point...

In the last six years, the Habs only made the playoffs two times.
In the last six years, the Leafs have made the playoffs all six times while making it to the third round twice.

And as of this moment, you should not be criticizing the current situation the Leafs are in. The Habs aren't any better... in fact, they are probably worse.

I understand why you had to make this rant of the day. Jealousy makes you do stupid things.
Did you even read his rant? It was all about the future, general age of players and the status of the farm system. What does that have to do with past playoff success?

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02-28-2005, 01:18 PM
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The Leafs have always been overrated. In a way, that's normal, the hopes of the entire nation rest upon their aging shoulders.


:lol

hahaha, as if.

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02-28-2005, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Just one point...

In the last six years, the Habs only made the playoffs two times.
In the last six years, the Leafs have made the playoffs all six times while making it to the third round twice.

And as of this moment, you should not be criticizing the current situation the Leafs are in. The Habs aren't any better... in fact, they are probably worse.

I understand why you had to make this rant of the day. Jealousy makes you do stupid things.
yes your right, which is why we've been able to draft better, something that alot of your fans refuse to admit for some reason, I don't see why you should feel bad for having mediocre prospects since your team has done so well recently, it's nothing to be ashamed about, we've done poorly only making the playoffs twice the last six years, so we've drafted more quality...

The problem is that the Leafs when they've had the opportunity to draft high, usually end up trading that pick for an agin vet to win the Cup, something your team has done once in the last 38 years, compared to us....so actually, I can criticize you current situation...

And anyways, I was referring to your future, not the fact that you've sold the farm to get to the 3rd round of the playoffs the last few years, wow! big deal....Leafs are going to have a problem filling their roster whenever the NHL resumes, the Habs problem will be to find a place for all their young players, so in fact, our current situation is better, and quite better, I wouldn't change our sitiation for yours, and I assume under those blue colored glasses, you would do it in a second!

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02-28-2005, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl O'Steen
:lol
Well laughter is the best medicine

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02-28-2005, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Just one point...

In the last six years, the Habs only made the playoffs two times.
In the last six years, the Leafs have made the playoffs all six times while making it to the third round twice.

And as of this moment, you should not be criticizing the current situation the Leafs are in. The Habs aren't any better... in fact, they are probably worse.

I understand why you had to make this rant of the day. Jealousy makes you do stupid things.
Say goodbye to being able to buy your players after a salary cap comes into play!

The Leafs are a bunch of old men...and they're getting tired. I must admit, I wasn't looking forward to seeing the Leafs this year...and part of me is glad that the season got cancelled.

I can't wait to see Ed Belfour next year. HAHAHAHAHA

Cap

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02-28-2005, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano
Say goodbye to being able to buy your players after a salary cap comes into play!

The Leafs are a bunch of old men...and they're getting tired. I must admit, I wasn't looking forward to seeing the Leafs this year...and part of me is glad that the season got cancelled.

I can't wait to see Ed Belfour next year. HAHAHAHAHA

Cap
I agree, when I thought about a short season, reluctantly, IMO the favs, to win would of been the Leafs, considering all their experience, that was their window though, with the cancellation of the season, it's been shut

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02-28-2005, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Just one point...

In the last six years, the Habs only made the playoffs two times.
In the last six years, the Leafs have made the playoffs all six times while making it to the third round twice.

And as of this moment, you should not be criticizing the current situation the Leafs are in. The Habs aren't any better... in fact, they are probably worse.

I understand why you had to make this rant of the day. Jealousy makes you do stupid things.
Now...that is just living in the past....no?????

That would be like me saying....

In the last 37 years the Leafs have won 0 Stanley Cups, and have appeared in the Stanley Cup finals 0 times.
In the last 37 years the Habs have won 10 Stanley Cups, and have appeared in the Stanley Cup finals 11 times.

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02-28-2005, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
Now...that is just living in the past....no?????

That would be like me saying....

In the last 37 years the Leafs have won 0 Stanley Cups, and have appeared in the Stanley Cup finals 0 times.
In the last 37 years the Habs have won 10 Stanley Cups, and have appeared in the Stanley Cup finals 11 times.
The last six years would not be considered living in the past as it is fairly recent (under the same head coach, captain, etc). I'd say anything more than ten years ago is living in the past.

Now, to make a list with explanations that explain why the Leafs are currently better than the Habs would be a waste of time. Look at areas such as coaching, leadership, and offensive/defensive abilities.

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02-28-2005, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
The last six years would not be considered living in the past as it is fairly recent (under the same head coach, captain, etc). I'd say anything more than ten years ago is living in the past.

Now, to make a list with explanations that explain why the Leafs are currently better than the Habs would be a waste of time. Look at areas such as coaching, leadership, and offensive/defensive abilities.
This makes no sense, past is past, doesn't matter how you break it down or formulate it to make it as much in your favor as possible...

Yes your team is better in terms of leadership, your more experienced, coaching is debatable, offensive/defensive abilities, you don't even know who's going to be on your roster when the NHL resumes, how can you make that assertation?

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02-28-2005, 03:03 PM
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Well folks, I'm a Habs fan and I hate the Leafs but... the fact is that the Leafs were a much better team than us in the past decade, and with the cash they have, they might stay better than us in the next 10 years...

And regarding the draft, only future will tell who drafted better.

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02-28-2005, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zednik
Well folks, I'm a Habs fan and I hate the Leafs but... the fact is that the Leafs were a much better team than us in the past decade, and with the cash they have, they might stay better than us in the next 10 years...

And regarding the draft, only future will tell who drafted better.
No they won't do you know that they have about 30% of a hypothetical cap of 45 million$$ tied into Owen Nolan and Ed Belfour?

You ain't going nowhere with that, especially if the cap is at 38 million like the owners want it

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02-28-2005, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zednik
Well folks, I'm a Habs fan and I hate the Leafs but... the fact is that the Leafs were a much better team than us in the past decade, and with the cash they have, they might stay better than us in the next 10 years...

And regarding the draft, only future will tell who drafted better.
I'm not arguing that the habs were a better team over the past 10 years. I don't think you'll get much of an argument from any hab fan over that one.

The cash the Leafs have might not be much of a difference if a cap is used.

As far as Leaf fans go, just let them be. They'll have a hard time adjusting to the new NHL when it comes back.

I can hardly wait

Cap

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02-28-2005, 03:21 PM
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It makes sense. The last 5 or so years are relevant to this discussion, not the last 35+ years. I'd much rather see the Habs bringing in players that the fans want to see in an effort to improve their chances of winning a cup. Leafs fans have been treated well by Quinn & Fergusson etc, they bring in the players that make this team a winner now. They can't control what happens on the ice, all they can do is bring in the players that they think fit in with the teams chemistry and hope that the team can stay healthy through the playoffs.

What can we say that the Habs management has done to make us so happy in recent years, other than resigning Theodore (which cost them far too much) and bringing in Kovalev at the deadline last year, I'd say pretty much nothing.

Criticize a team for trying, or criticize a team for 'rebuilding'... i'd much rather see management honouring the history & tradition of this franchise (like the leafs are doing) by bringing in the best players available for the job.

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02-28-2005, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfan4life
It makes sense. The last 5 or so years are relevant to this discussion, not the last 35+ years. I'd much rather see the Habs bringing in players that the fans want to see in an effort to improve their chances of winning a cup. Leafs fans have been treated well by Quinn & Fergusson etc, they bring in the players that make this team a winner now. They can't control what happens on the ice, all they can do is bring in the players that they think fit in with the teams chemistry and hope that the team can stay healthy through the playoffs.

What can we say that the Habs management has done to make us so happy in recent years, other than resigning Theodore (which cost them far too much) and bringing in Kovalev at the deadline last year, I'd say pretty much nothing.

Criticize a team for trying, or criticize a team for 'rebuilding'... i'd much rather see management honouring the history & tradition of this franchise (like the leafs are doing) by bringing in the best players available for the job.
Remember the Witehall era? We needed a rebuilding just as much as the Leafs are needy of one, now.

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02-28-2005, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfan4life
It makes sense. The last 5 or so years are relevant to this discussion, not the last 35+ years. I'd much rather see the Habs bringing in players that the fans want to see in an effort to improve their chances of winning a cup. Leafs fans have been treated well by Quinn & Fergusson etc, they bring in the players that make this team a winner now. They can't control what happens on the ice, all they can do is bring in the players that they think fit in with the teams chemistry and hope that the team can stay healthy through the playoffs.

What can we say that the Habs management has done to make us so happy in recent years, other than resigning Theodore (which cost them far too much) and bringing in Kovalev at the deadline last year, I'd say pretty much nothing.

Criticize a team for trying, or criticize a team for 'rebuilding'... i'd much rather see management honouring the history & tradition of this franchise (like the leafs are doing) by bringing in the best players available for the job.
This has nothing to do with the original topic of the thread, that was started by your truly, I'm not talking about the success the Leafs have had the last few years, i'm talking about the future, and no matter how you cut it, going into a new NHL where a cap is going to be in place, things look bleak for the Leafs, i'm not saying they're doomed, but things don't look good, anyone can see that, who cares about the past, i'm talking about the future, when I go over the Leafs board and they're penciling in players like Ling, Kilger, Perrott into their lineup it makes me feel bad for them because there's no future there, something will have to be done, i'm not saying it's over for them, but if you take today into account, our team is looking much better

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02-28-2005, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
This has nothing to do with the original topic of the thread, that was started by your truly, I'm not talking about the success the Leafs have had the last few years, i'm talking about the future, and no matter how you cut it, going into a new NHL where a cap is going to be in place, things look bleak for the Leafs, i'm not saying they're doomed, but things don't look good, anyone can see that, who cares about the past, i'm talking about the future, when I go over the Leafs board and they're penciling in players like Ling, Kilger, Perrott into their lineup it makes me feel bad for them because there's no future there, something will have to be done, i'm not saying it's over for them, but if you take today into account, our team is looking much better
Kilger played really well for the Leafs in the playoffs last year, if he can continue then I definitely will not be complaining. Perrott is Domi's replacement (I think...) and is rather good in the enforcer role. Ling would be a fabulous fourth line player paired with an enforcer- he is an agitator.

As for the future. The Leafs have a great young group of defensive prospects. Their offensive prospects are lacking but that is easily fixed through free agency.

I guess you're seeing what you want to see. Thankfully reality differs much from what you think/see.

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02-28-2005, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano
This has nothing to do with the original topic of the thread, that was started by your truly, I'm not talking about the success the Leafs have had the last few years, i'm talking about the future, and no matter how you cut it, going into a new NHL where a cap is going to be in place, things look bleak for the Leafs, i'm not saying they're doomed, but things don't look good, anyone can see that, who cares about the past, i'm talking about the future, when I go over the Leafs board and they're penciling in players like Ling, Kilger, Perrott into their lineup it makes me feel bad for them because there's no future there, something will have to be done, i'm not saying it's over for them, but if you take today into account, our team is looking much better
Cap
If the owners have their way, and the players are forced into a new world order of hockey -- brave new world-esque system of control, there should be other signifigant changes to the system as well. One major change could be the age a player must be before he can apply to be a UFA.

What you may find is that the players are signing onto teams that they want to play for as opposed to signing to teams that are offering the most money (since in a cap system, no matter what a players true value is, if the money isn't there, it isn't there).

How can you theorize about what team is in better shape after the lockout when we don't even know what the new rules are that the GM's will be playing under when the league starts back-up?

I realise that players like Kilger, Perrot and Ling aren't the solution, but you must also realise that John Fergusson is the one who knows what the Leafs game plan is, not the posters on hockeys future web site.

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02-28-2005, 03:59 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Kilger played really well for the Leafs in the playoffs last year, if he can continue then I definitely will not be complaining. Perrott is Domi's replacement (I think...) and is rather good in the enforcer role. Ling would be a fabulous fourth line player paired with an enforcer- he is an agitator.

As for the future. The Leafs have a great young group of defensive prospects. Their offensive prospects are lacking but that is easily fixed through free agency.

I guess you're seeing what you want to see. Thankfully reality differs much from what you think/see.
Kilger also played really well when he arrived in Montreal, Chicago, Edmonton, Phoenix, and Anaheim...Don't expect nothing from him, he's absolutely useless as a hockey player, Perrot as your enforcer? I think you should go with Belak instead, but Perrot is a physical player, i'll give you that, Ling and the world fabulous aren't made to be together, he's a reject, a hab reject BTW, if he's pencilled into your lineup, then good luck, ask Blue Jacket fans about Ling, good for the AHL, bad for the NHL...

Again, I didin't say it was over for the leafs, but you have alot of holes to fill, I don't how you can't see that...

Damien Cox had a great article about the Leafs, i'm sure you've read it, in case you didin't, here it is, he's one of the few writers/reporters in Toronto who actually knows what is going on and isin't blinded by the St Johns's leafs record

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...acodalogin=yes

key comments from the article...

Looking ahead, the constraints of a salary cap system combined with financial commitments the team has already made certainly do not bode well for the Leafs.

It's reasonable to assume when the league becomes active again that it will include a salary cap somewhere between $40 million and $45 million.

Right now, the Leafs have about $13 million almost 30 per cent of a hypothetical $45 million salary cap committed next season to two players, Belfour and winger Owen Nolan.

Belfour will be 40 next fall, and Nolan 33. Neither, given their age, history of injuries and at least 16 months of inactivity, is a sure bet to still be an elite player.

If you add in Mats Sundin ($9 million) and Bryan McCabe ($4.55 million), the Leafs have almost 60 per cent of a $45 million cap figure already locked up in just four players.

In total, the Leafs have already committed about $37 million next season to nine players including Matt Stajan, Ken Klee, Tomas Kaberle, Darcy Tucker and Mikael Tellqvist.

How in the world are they going to ice a competitive team with only a theoretical $8 million left to spend on 14 players? And what if the cap number is significantly less?

Players like Roberts and Nieuwendyk, both 39 in the fall, may be as good as gone unless they want to play for significant pay cuts. Ditto for Mogilny, who may never play again.


As you can see, it's not only Habs fans who have this opinion, and this is not to make fun of Leafs fans, that's not what i'm trying to do, but does no one there realize what is happening?


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02-28-2005, 04:07 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
Kilger also played really well when he arrived in Montreal, Chicago, Edmonton, Phoenix, and Anaheim...Don't expect nothing from him, he's absolutely useless as a hockey player, Perrot as your enforcer? I think you should go with Belak instead, but Perrot is a physical player, i'll give you that, Ling and the world fabulous aren't made to be together, he's a reject, a hab reject BTW, if he's pencilled into your lineup, then good luck, ask Blue Jacket fans about Ling, good for the AHL, bad for the NHL...

Again, I didin't say it was over for the leafs, but you have alot of holes to fill, I don't how you can't see that...

Damien Cox had a great article about the Leafs, i'm sure you've read it, in case you didin't, here it is, he's one of the few writers/reporters in Toronto who actually knows what is going on and isin't blinded by the St Johns's leafs record

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...acodalogin=yes

key comments from the article...

Looking ahead, the constraints of a salary cap system combined with financial commitments the team has already made certainly do not bode well for the Leafs.

It's reasonable to assume when the league becomes active again that it will include a salary cap somewhere between $40 million and $45 million.

Right now, the Leafs have about $13 million almost 30 per cent of a hypothetical $45 million salary cap committed next season to two players, Belfour and winger Owen Nolan.

Belfour will be 40 next fall, and Nolan 33. Neither, given their age, history of injuries and at least 16 months of inactivity, is a sure bet to still be an elite player.

If you add in Mats Sundin ($9 million) and Bryan McCabe ($4.55 million), the Leafs have almost 60 per cent of a $45 million cap figure already locked up in just four players.

In total, the Leafs have already committed about $37 million next season to nine players including Matt Stajan, Ken Klee, Tomas Kaberle, Darcy Tucker and Mikael Tellqvist.

How in the world are they going to ice a competitive team with only a theoretical $8 million left to spend on 14 players? And what if the cap number is significantly less?

Players like Roberts and Nieuwendyk, both 39 in the fall, may be as good as gone unless they want to play for significant pay cuts. Ditto for Mogilny, who may never play again.


As you can see, it's not only Habs fans who have this opinion, and this is not to make fun of Leafs fans, that's not what i'm trying to do, but does no one there realize what is happening?

Damien Cox is a known Leaf hater as well. Every column of his spins something negative about the Maple Leafs.

And I'll repeat- think what you like about the current or future situations for the Leafs. Mark my words: the Leafs will remain competitive for many years to come.

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02-28-2005, 04:10 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Crossroads
Damien Cox is a known Leaf hater as well. Every column of his spins something negative about the Maple Leafs.

And I'll repeat- think what you like about the current or future situations for the Leafs. Mark my words: the Leafs will remain competitive for many years to come.
Well for you sake, I hope so...they'll have to be pretty creative in doing so, but I think it's a given that the Leafs are going to suffer at least a year or 2 of struggles before things get back to normal

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02-28-2005, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Crossroads
Kilger played really well for the Leafs in the playoffs last year, if he can continue then I definitely will not be complaining. Perrott is Domi's replacement (I think...) and is rather good in the enforcer role. Ling would be a fabulous fourth line player paired with an enforcer- he is an agitator.

As for the future. The Leafs have a great young group of defensive prospects. Their offensive prospects are lacking but that is easily fixed through free agency.

I guess you're seeing what you want to see. Thankfully reality differs much from what you think/see.
Kilger's success early on in TO was frustrating, given he never did anything here. I wouldn't be too sure about Perrott being a replacement. Perrot is 28. He's hardly a prospect. He can put up big numbers in the AHL for a tough guy, but he won't reach Domi's totals or Domi's fight card. Belak is a way better option. He's big and mean. Look at Perrott's fight card last year, it's not impressive enough that he could be considered a replacement to Domi. He is willing to drop the gloves, but he can't hold his own against the Shelley's/Oliwa's/Worrell's etc.. of the league.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/137/fightcard/reg04

As for Ling, the Leafs have enough guys who can agitate and fight. I hardly think Ling's skills translate well into the NHL. He's a poor version of Darcy Tucker. There's no need to have two pests on the roster. Especially when one of them, (Ling) hardly has NHL caliber skills. I'd stick with Tucker. You're also better off taking a chance with either Kilger or Wilm on the 4th line imo. Kilger is at best 3rd line. I don't know who you guys are planning on getting rid of though...(Roberts, Mogilny, Nolan?) Depending on who leaves, maybe Ling would be forced to play a 4th line role, but I'd try to avoid that.

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