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Old
01-14-2013, 07:09 PM
  #301
BlindWillyMcHurt
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I don't disagree, really. But it could be situational. Malkin should still see plenty of draws. I just think Sutter would play much better on that line, even as a wing, than anyone else currently available on the roster would. Well... who isn't tied to Crosby's hip (Kunitz).

I guess I just have very little faith in the "revolving door" winger philosophy between Cooke, Tangradi, Kennedy and whoever else pops into Disco's mind on the fly.

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01-14-2013, 07:10 PM
  #302
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Day 2 thoughts here for anyone that cares to read my drivel:
http://letsgopens.com/camp_reports.php?id=78

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01-14-2013, 07:11 PM
  #303
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Lemieux had guys take certain faceoffs for him for years, and that was actually used to our advantage by placing him in a prime shooting position off the draw. I don't see a problem.

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01-14-2013, 07:12 PM
  #304
BlindWillyMcHurt
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Originally Posted by netwolf View Post
Day 2 thoughts here for anyone that cares to read my drivel:
http://letsgopens.com/camp_reports.php?id=78
Drivel?!?

I've read every single one of these for something like ten years.

Keep it up and thanks.

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01-14-2013, 07:13 PM
  #305
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Great job as always net wolf, much appreciated.

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01-14-2013, 07:23 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by stefanh View Post
I absolutely hate it. Malkin made big strides on faceoffs last season and the only way to improve is by taking a lot of them. There was a reason that he improved last year when he took a lot more than before . Crosby and Staal improved on faceoffs while taking a lot of them. Not letting geno take faceoffs does much more harm than good in the long run.
Nothing wrong with Sutter taking situational faceoffs.

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01-14-2013, 07:31 PM
  #307
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Nothing wrong with Sutter taking situational faceoffs.
Agreed. Keep in mind Sutter is right-handed so that's why he would be a candidate to come in to take important draws in the right dot.

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01-14-2013, 07:33 PM
  #308
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Bylsma didn't stop there though. He also said that players like Glass and Cooke will see time on Malkin's line too throughout the season depending on the situation. Basically Tangradi will only see time playing there when he's playing perfectly, and the game is still very early or we have a huge lead.

http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videoc...ed-share-video

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01-14-2013, 07:36 PM
  #309
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I think it's pretty obvious DB has never been the biggest Tangradi fan regardless of the occasional praise he gives him for his play in the minors.

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01-14-2013, 07:37 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
I think it's pretty obvious DB has never been the biggest Tangradi fan regardless of the occasional praise he gives him for his play in the minors.
My patience is wearing thin with Bylsma. I have a feeling I'm going to be very annoyed with him after this season.

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01-14-2013, 07:46 PM
  #311
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My patience is wearing thin with Bylsma. I have a feeling I'm going to be very annoyed with him after this season.
Same, if he even last this whole season.

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01-14-2013, 07:57 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Bylsma didn't stop there though. He also said that players like Glass and Cooke will see time on Malkin's line too throughout the season depending on the situation. Basically Tangradi will only see time playing there when he's playing perfectly, and the game is still very early or we have a huge lead.

http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videoc...ed-share-video

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01-14-2013, 07:57 PM
  #313
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Same, if he even last this whole season.
He'll last the whole season unless there's a horrendous tailspin. If there's another early playoff exit (assuming we make it), then he'll be the scapegoat.

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01-14-2013, 08:01 PM
  #314
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Anyone else notice that MAF changed his number...



*face palm*

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01-14-2013, 08:03 PM
  #315
Warm Cookies
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You used the stat to compare Engelland's offensive production to Letang's offensive production. That is ridiculous. Paul Martin is a MUCH better offensive player than Deryk Engelland.

To support that, here are my stats. Engelland scores about .19 points per game compared to Martin's .39.
I hadn't even looked at the stats. I just know Martin looked like ass on the PP, and I think Engelland has a few attributes that would give him a chance to be more effective than Martin in that role.

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Fistric is a bottom pairing guy that's been in and out of the lineup in Dallas despite their defense not being that great. He runs around and makes big hits but also makes lots of mistakes. He's sort of a poor man's Brooks Orpik. I think we already have a poor man's Orpik and/or Fistric in Engelland.

I'd love another big physical D but we need one that can handle top 4 duty.
Some people may think I'm crazy, but I honestly believe Engelland could be that guy.

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01-14-2013, 08:07 PM
  #316
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You guys are really making a big deal out of nothing. The season hasn't even started yet!!!!!

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01-14-2013, 08:13 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
first of all, money has nothing to do with the discussion. second, I'm not suggesting Martin is a great option for the powerplay. Just that he's better than Engelland. When factoring in things like skating the puck into the zone and keeping the puck in on attempted clearing attempts, I don't see how its even debatable.

As far as the stats go, neither of our stats are overly useful. His are bad because they ignore factors like the quality of competition. My stats are 'unfair' because they are playing different times and whatnot. Mine include absolutely everything, including things like potential coach bias. Either way, my point was that stats really don't tell the whole story.

The whole story here being that Martin is obviously a better offensive player than Engelland.
I'll just take one last exception to this discussion. In theory, Martin is better offensively than Engelland, but the reality of the last two seasons says something quite different. Perhaps Engelland is a little better than people give him credit for (don't bring up quality of competition without acknowledging 'quality of teammates', as he doesn't get any favors there)? Also, Martin has flat out hit a brick wall since his injury in New Jersey. His shooting pct. went from ~5.5% in NJ to ~2.5% in PIT. It's obvious as much when you see his current shot as the puck looks like a car running out of gas while it floats through the air. He has one of the slowest shots from a defenseman that I can remember in a Penguins uniform. http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...martipa01.html

Just one more note. I know hating on Martin is a cliche and this criticism is not meant to be a continuation of that. I'm speaking solely of his offensive abilities, which I have completely given up on. I hope he has a respectable year in terms of his, primarily defensive, but overall game.

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01-14-2013, 08:20 PM
  #318
ThosePuckingPenguins
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I apologize if this has been discussed but what do you guys think about having Dustin Jeffrey with Malkin and Neal on that second line?

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01-14-2013, 08:25 PM
  #319
MrBurghundy
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Even Littlefinger can't buy his way out of this one.

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01-14-2013, 08:26 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Some people may think I'm crazy, but I honestly believe Engelland could be that guy.
Some people may call me even crazier, but I think Bortuzzo could be that guy.

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01-14-2013, 08:28 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
I'll just take one last exception to this discussion. In theory, Martin is better offensively than Engelland, but the reality of the last two seasons says something quite different. Perhaps Engelland is a little better than people give him credit for (don't bring up quality of competition without acknowledging 'quality of teammates', as he doesn't get any favors there)? Also, Martin has flat out hit a brick wall since his injury in New Jersey. His shooting pct. went from ~5.5% in NJ to ~2.5% in PIT. It's obvious as much when you see his current shot as the puck looks like a car running out of gas while it floats through the air. He has one of the slowest shots from a defenseman that I can remember in a Penguins uniform. http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...martipa01.html

Just one more note. I know hating on Martin is a cliche and this criticism is not meant to be a continuation of that. I'm speaking solely of his offensive abilities, which I have completely given up on. I hope he has a respectable year in terms of his, primarily defensive, but overall game.
That's my take. At both ends of the ice.

He was about as good as you can expect a bottom pairing defenseman to be last season. I think that should earn him a few new opportunities, especially considering how some of the players above him on the depth chart **** the bed.

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01-14-2013, 08:31 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Some people may call me even crazier, but I think Bortuzzo could be that guy.
I won't rule it out...someday. But Engelland has already proven he can succeed in a 3rd pairing role.

Baby steps.

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01-14-2013, 08:31 PM
  #323
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Has anyone legitimate said anything about Despres? Since a couple days ago, I've read reports that range from saying management was unhappy with his dedication and performance in Wilkes Barre and he would not get a camp invite, to saying he might be paired with Letang. Has Bylsma commented on him?

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01-14-2013, 08:31 PM
  #324
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I hadn't even looked at the stats. I just know Martin looked like ass on the PP, and I think Engelland has a few attributes that would give him a chance to be more effective than Martin in that role.



Some people may think I'm crazy, but I honestly believe Engelland could be that guy.
Ya I wasn't referring to you with the stats part. I think both Martin and Engelland would or will look like ass on the powerplay. We've pretty much had this discussion before. I just think Engelland is what he is and is best used as such. That is a solid number 6 guy. If we are going to expand his role, it should be on the powerplay where we could really use a guy with some muscle. I think he looked good because he was actually used in the role he is good at. Put him in bigger roles and its just setting him up to disappoint. In my opinion.

I would love for him to prove me wrong.

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01-14-2013, 08:33 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Ya I wasn't referring to you with the stats part. I think both Martin and Engelland would or will look like ass on the powerplay. We've pretty much had this discussion before. I just think Engelland is what he is and is best used as such. That is a solid number 6 guy. If we are going to expand his role, it should be on the powerplay where we could really use a guy with some muscle.
I'll assume you mean PK, haha.

As for expanded roles - we won't know unless we try. We already know Martin sucks on the PP, so if we're expecting anything different...

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