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Dineen: Jovanovski Named Captain

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01-18-2013, 06:09 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
I've been saying it for the longest time... Panthers fans are just so hung on to the fact that he's been here for so long. But the fact of the matter is yes he has been here a while and i respect that but he isn't a great player and he isn't on the same level in terms of toughness and leadership like some of these guys that have been brought in....
No. Panther fans are hung on the fact that when Weiss is out of the lineup, the team falls apart. Yes, we have tons of respect for him due to his commitment to the team, but to say he isn't a great player is just far from the truth. He may not have Ovy/Crosby/Malkin greatness, but he is a great player who does battle hard, is a good leader and is tough. Again, you personally may not like him or maybe you do, you just feel he's expendable but many of us don't. We love Weiss..

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01-18-2013, 07:47 PM
  #152
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Doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever, but you're obviously open to your opinion. Will say I find it odd that you've defended some of the guys who've been through here and done nothing, yet you dislike a guy who took a half-new roster to the playoffs, which isn't easy, and did it on a team that has missed for over a decade.
well, it's all just our opinion but i think the guys i've defended have gone on to redeem themselves once leaving the morass that was the panthers. i give tallon a lot of credit for last year, then the players. anyway, we'll have plenty of time to dissect dineen once the season starts

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01-18-2013, 08:06 PM
  #153
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So many people being ticked off over this decision...was it not Dineen, in past interviews, who said that this decision would ultimately be the team's? If this held true, then I'd rather see a team captain whose team acknowledges and respects him to lead his team than someone who's given the C for being the best player or who has the longest tenure who may not have the same kind of support. Sorry if that sounds a bit cheesy but some of these reactions are shameful.

But congrats to Jovo for earning the C.

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01-18-2013, 08:15 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
No. Panther fans are hung on the fact that when Weiss is out of the lineup, the team falls apart. Yes, we have tons of respect for him due to his commitment to the team, but to say he isn't a great player is just far from the truth. He may not have Ovy/Crosby/Malkin greatness, but he is a great player who does battle hard, is a good leader and is tough. Again, you personally may not like him or maybe you do, you just feel he's expendable but many of us don't. We love Weiss..
The only reason the Panthers "fall apart"without Weiss in the lineup is because they are so weak at the center position. The past few seasons they did not have a true first line center. IMO Weiss is not a "great player" but he is good second line center.

If he does not resign with the Panthers I believe he will go home to Toronto.

Weiss seems to be a good man and teammate, but is he a leader? Jovo seems to be a fire and brimstone kind of teammate that will fire the boys up! I trust Dineen!

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01-18-2013, 08:26 PM
  #155
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The only reason the Panthers "fall apart"without Weiss in the lineup is because they are so weak at the center position. The past few seasons they did not have a true first line center. IMO Weiss is not a "great player" but he is good second line center.
Maybe not the 'only' reason, but I think it has to be at the top of the list.

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01-18-2013, 08:30 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
No. Panther fans are hung on the fact that when Weiss is out of the lineup, the team falls apart. Yes, we have tons of respect for him due to his commitment to the team, but to say he isn't a great player is just far from the truth. He may not have Ovy/Crosby/Malkin greatness, but he is a great player who does battle hard, is a good leader and is tough. Again, you personally may not like him or maybe you do, you just feel he's expendable but many of us don't. We love Weiss..
1) I dont feel like the team falls apart when he's not in the line-up

2) Like I said I respect his commitment and service to this team, but he's good not great

3) You're right he doesn't have Ovy/Crosby/Malkin greatness and nothing close to it

4) He battles hard, but he doesn't have leadership skills

5) Yes I do feel like he is expendable and I feel like we can do better then playing a #2 center as a #1 center....

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01-18-2013, 08:33 PM
  #157
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Congrats to JovoCop! Not what I had anticipated, but as others have mentioned already, he's well-respected among teammates.

Interesting that we're arguing who would've been a better choice to wear the C. Here we are with a handful a great players to fill the role when just a few years ago, we barely had anyone capable of strong leadership.

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01-18-2013, 08:48 PM
  #158
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Boys Jovo's a good leader but I hear ya, I don't think he's the best choice given the other two guys(Weiss and Campbell). C'mon though, its just a label/letter. If you think this will affect Weiss' decision to stay as a Panther, trust me it won't. Been watching Weiss for a long time now and I don't think he would care all that much for it to affect where he plays.

Personally, I would have chose Weiss. Jovocop, I love you man but you got 2 years left in the tank. Hope those are his best as well. Go panthers

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01-18-2013, 09:02 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
well, it's all just our opinion but i think the guys i've defended have gone on to redeem themselves once leaving the morass that was the panthers. i give tallon a lot of credit for last year, then the players. anyway, we'll have plenty of time to dissect dineen once the season starts
Other than Martin who's not there, and Keenan didn't take the Flames anywhere, who else has redeemed themselves? Well, DeBoer with the Devils, but I wasn't terribly down on him, and he had much better players. Think you're too down on Dineen. Surprising, tbh

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01-19-2013, 12:48 AM
  #160
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I'm totally cool with this, grats to Jovo!

You don't have to be the best player on the team to lead the team. Clearly he's respected, paid his dues with the franchise, and he's a great leader for other players to look up to and learn from.

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01-19-2013, 09:13 AM
  #161
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I'm totally cool with this, grats to Jovo!

You don't have to be the best player on the team to lead the team. Clearly he's respected, paid his dues with the franchise, and he's a great leader for other players to look up to and learn from.
For gods sakes Ovi is the captain in Washington does anyone really think of him as a great captain? Great player but I don't see him as a leader. Jovo was the captain without the C last year no reason for him not to get it this year. Do I wish it was Jovo from 10 years ago sure but he doesn' t have to dominate on the ice to be a good captain.

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01-19-2013, 09:59 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
1) I dont feel like the team falls apart when he's not in the line-up

2) Like I said I respect his commitment and service to this team, but he's good not great

3) You're right he doesn't have Ovy/Crosby/Malkin greatness and nothing close to it

4) He battles hard, but he doesn't have leadership skills

5) Yes I do feel like he is expendable and I feel like we can do better then playing a #2 center as a #1 center....
#1. I KNOW the team has fallen apart when Weiss was out of the lineup. We most certainly have a better team than the past decade, but to say that the team didn't fall apart is just untrue. I've witnessed some pathetic hockey in the past when Weiss was injured

#2. He is great! Like I said, he's not superstar great but I am sure 29 other teams think he's great and would love to add Weiss to their lineup

#3. Who says he doesn't have leadership skills?? No one knows what goes on or said on the bench or in the locker room. I remember watching the playoffs last season and how vocal Weiss got and how most fans on here we're talking about his as capt.

#4. Yes, I would love a true #1 center. Hopefully Bjugstad is that #1 guy but for right now, that's what we have. I don't think he's expendable. Even if we ended up signing Getzlef and Bjugstad becomes #2 center,Weiss has talent that can always help our roster.

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01-19-2013, 10:45 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
#1. I KNOW the team has fallen apart when Weiss was out of the lineup. We most certainly have a better team than the past decade, but to say that the team didn't fall apart is just untrue. I've witnessed some pathetic hockey in the past when Weiss was injured

#2. He is great! Like I said, he's not superstar great but I am sure 29 other teams think he's great and would love to add Weiss to their lineup

#3. Who says he doesn't have leadership skills?? No one knows what goes on or said on the bench or in the locker room. I remember watching the playoffs last season and how vocal Weiss got and how most fans on here we're talking about his as capt.

#4. Yes, I would love a true #1 center. Hopefully Bjugstad is that #1 guy but for right now, that's what we have. I don't think he's expendable. Even if we ended up signing Getzlef and Bjugstad becomes #2 center,Weiss has talent that can always help our roster.
It's ok to agree to disagree on this, ...one man's star is another man's serviceable player.. What I'm glad to opine is we've reached a point where we don't fall apart by missing any ONE player.

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01-19-2013, 12:59 PM
  #164
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you mean the guy mucking in the corner, then left holding his jock?

i haven't been making any of the arguments you counter here against jovo. i know that different types of guys can be effective in the role. i do think it's a dicey proposition to say jovo is as effective a player as any of those specialists, even in their limited, late-career roles. i also would not hand over the "hard working" title to jovo, based on observations and inferences about his conditioning (as mentioned earlier).

all that said, the discussion is academic. it certainly is possible that dineen made a sub-optimal choice here. it wouldn't surprise me - i'm not a big fan of his (i don't dislike him, just am not a fan). in the end though, it'll probably be just fine.
Salvador and Jackman are 2nd pairing defensemen. Is that really that much of a difference between a 3rd pairing defenseman? I think you're just picking nits here. Some people just don't like Jovo, because he had a bad season last year, I get it. But you don't have to be a good player to be captain, as I demonstrated. You can be one of the worst players on the team and be a great captain. Let the stars be stars, and the captains lead. They don't have to be one in the same.

Jovo is definitely hard working, he has been his whole career. Amnesia from his early days when he was the intimidating Jovocop? He's a 36 year old meathead, I'm not happy he showed up to camp last season out of shape, but I can see why at his age. Most 36 year olds are not as athletic as when they were 21. I think you're being extreme. All the boys in the room know the hard work and pain he's put in over 17 years. He's always played a bruising hard-nosed style. That's why he has their respect. It was the players' decision, as well as Dineen's. If the players want Jovo as their captain, then I say he should be captain. They know more than anyone else what they need to compete.

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01-20-2013, 10:44 AM
  #165
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Amazing to me how folks with casual hockey knowledge at best spend so much time bashing Jovo, when the actual players and coaches on the team made it clear to everyone who THEY see as the captain. Anyone of the three (Weiss, Campbell or Jovo) were good choices. Jovo is a solid defenseman with tons of experience. He was one of our best players towards the end of last season and in the devils series. Enough already, lets be happy we have him. Reminds me when fans were complaining that Bure was not playing solid defensively as he was scoring 50 plus goals. Very few players do everything well and none do it all the time.

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01-21-2013, 12:47 PM
  #166
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Other than Martin who's not there, and Keenan didn't take the Flames anywhere, who else has redeemed themselves? Well, DeBoer with the Devils, but I wasn't terribly down on him, and he had much better players. Think you're too down on Dineen. Surprising, tbh
i never liked keenan. maybe you have me confused with someone else?

deboer, is obvious. i don't remember who was against him other than the most vocal opponent (you remember "get that junior coach out of here"?), whose comments spoke and continue to speak for themselves. JM was scorned but all but a few here. he took the montreal gig and had a couple of very successful years with a very modest roster and was scapegoated when the further depleted roster could no longer hold up. remember kitchen?

anyway, i'm not too down on dineen. i like him as a person. he's not very articulate and his comments really don't lend any insight to the games but i don't hold that against him. what i do hold against him is the team's play on the ice. in my opinion, the team made the playoffs last year because we spent more $ and had better players who won more games, not because of dineen. but we're going way off-topic. let's pick it up in another thread during the season, eh?

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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Salvador and Jackman are 2nd pairing defensemen. Is that really that much of a difference between a 3rd pairing defenseman? I think you're just picking nits here. Some people just don't like Jovo, because he had a bad season last year, I get it. But you don't have to be a good player to be captain, as I demonstrated. You can be one of the worst players on the team and be a great captain. Let the stars be stars, and the captains lead. They don't have to be one in the same.

Jovo is definitely hard working, he has been his whole career. Amnesia from his early days when he was the intimidating Jovocop? He's a 36 year old meathead, I'm not happy he showed up to camp last season out of shape, but I can see why at his age. Most 36 year olds are not as athletic as when they were 21. I think you're being extreme. All the boys in the room know the hard work and pain he's put in over 17 years. He's always played a bruising hard-nosed style. That's why he has their respect. It was the players' decision, as well as Dineen's. If the players want Jovo as their captain, then I say he should be captain. They know more than anyone else what they need to compete.
keep in mind, the discussion is academic. i'm not upset. jovo will be fine. there's also a connection to the past which i hadn't thought of before and i know tallon likes (for good reason). perhaps that played a part as well. i can imagine some casual fanes who may not have been paying attention lately and perhaps didn't even realize he was back but upon learning he's the captain, may rekindle that brief affair they had with the game back in 95-96.

i would only repeat two things - GR reported that the sense from the players was that weiss was going to named C, which goes against what you are suggesting. and also, there are plenty of examples across the league older players who to come to camp in better and better shape each year in order to still compete. look at selanne. i was watching the PHX-CHI game last night and one of the announcers said that morris (i believe) showed up 20 lbs. lighter this year, realizing that in today's game, and at his age, it's more important to have the agility and hight fitness level than the extra weight to throw at someone (if you can catch them). why can't jovo do that? sure jovocop was badass but does that mean he can rest on his laurels and eat big macs all summer long the last quarter of his career? the guy almost has a double chin for crying out loud! if it wasn't affecting his game, i'd let it go but it continues to affect his game and the team. so the "hard worker" rationale dog won't hunt, imo. i'm ok with the elder statesman with a connection to past success, though. i just really wish he'd get his **** together.

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01-21-2013, 03:13 PM
  #167
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Zero, I'll agree to discuss this elsewhere, but I have to address that it does take a good coach for a team to succeed. Dineen still has things to learn, but there are teams in every sport that fail even though they spent money. The Marlins being one of them.

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