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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-14-2013, 09:56 AM
  #401
racerjoe
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
It's not just Leaf fans who feel the price is to high.....obviously,management feels the same. As does every other GM. My proof....if the market was as vast as you think, someone would have made a good offer. I agree if Gillis wants top dollar he won't trade Luongo.....not by choice though.
To be fair, gillis stated in an interview yesterday what he is looking for in a Lui trade is very specific, so maybe value has been there, but it's not what he wants.

Point being we really know little besides some teams invlolved, and the "insiders" guesses at prices have done nothing but go up.

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01-14-2013, 10:01 AM
  #402
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To be fair, gillis stated in an interview yesterday what he is looking for in a Lui trade is very specific, so maybe value has been there, but it's not what he wants.

Point being we really know little besides some teams invlolved, and the "insiders" guesses at prices have done nothing but go up.
I didn't see that interview, what did he say was needed?

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01-14-2013, 10:13 AM
  #403
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So answer this, if there are multiple teams interested, a shortened camp/season...do you feel it is prudent for an interested GM to wait? Or is it more believable that the cost is to high for the market to bear or the interest just isn't there?
False dilemma.

It's too early to tell. It has only been one day.

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01-14-2013, 10:16 AM
  #404
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This VAN fan was never more bothered with Nonis than at the draft. I _hated_ Nonis' drafting. And if it weren't for a stellar 2004 draft, where I'm not sure you could give Nonis much credit because we was newly hired, his record would have been abysmal here. To me, passing on Kopitar for Bourdon (RIP) and Perron for White were two of his biggest gaffs.



I didn't trust his draft ability after that Perron draft. So yes, I would be hoping for the lottery pick as well. At least that way, the options to go off the board are limited, and Nonis can be saved from himself.
Isn't that more on the scouts than Nonis? From what I've heard from Burke and I'm not sure if this goes with every team but with Burke he said that he goes by what his scouts tell him and he drafts whoever they have at the top of their board. The GM's see these kids from time to time but the scouts are there all the time.

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01-14-2013, 10:18 AM
  #405
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I didn't see that interview, what did he say was needed?
He didn't divulge that information, he said that with the Canucks they're at the point where they want to win and they have the roster to do that. They are at the stage of looking for specific players to help their roster now and in the future, which is a pretty broad statement in itself, every team is looking for players to help them now and and in the future.

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01-14-2013, 10:39 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by The Overseer View Post
False dilemma.

It's too early to tell. It has only been one day.
There really isn't a dilemma at all. Van is probably in better shape keeping Lu (this season) than with whatever they get for him.

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01-14-2013, 10:42 AM
  #407
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There really isn't a dilemma at all. Van is probably in better shape keeping Lu (this season) than with whatever they get for him.
This season yes. The dilemma is that his value goes down as time goes on. All of his value is located at the front end of his contract.

If he doesn't get traded this year because the offers aren't good enough, why should there be any expectation that those offers should improve? Logically they should go down, since his value goes down as 1 out of the ~4-6 good years on his contract is now gone.

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01-14-2013, 10:43 AM
  #408
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At this point it's pretty obvious the value isnt there in trade offers so Gillis will wait. He might get something if a team stumbles out of the block or at the trade deadline. His value drops next summer though and it'll be a situation where you pretty much have to give him away once the cap drops.

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01-14-2013, 10:50 AM
  #409
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In reading this neverending thread I am left with the opinion that many posters bearing monikers and avatars referencing Toronto Maple Leafs are actually so accustomed to losing that they don't want to win.

If they get Luongo and the team wins then they won't get a shot at McKinnon or Jones this year.

What about holding out for McDavid or the next 11 year old phenom. When does this loser mentality end.

Owners have egos and they like to win and make more money. Playoffs strokes the ego and feeds the pocket books.

Earlier in the thread someone referenced the upcoming UFA goalies next year and if you think Luongo plays second fiddle to any of them you are mistaken. Luongo is not Toronto's only choice but he is their best choice. The one player on the market who can do more than any one else in changing the mentality of this organization. And all he gets is crapped on by those he could help most.


Last edited by bcjonny: 01-14-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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01-14-2013, 10:51 AM
  #410
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I say leave Luongo in Vancouver.

Toronto can give Reimer a proper shot to play a healthy season in net (albeit an abbreviated version of one). The pressure to trade Luongo would almost certainly have to ratchet up to unbearable levels in Vancouver next year when the cap drops to $64M and they are looking at $60M the year after that

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01-14-2013, 11:02 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by bcjonny View Post
In reading this neverending thread I am left with the opinion that many posters bearing monikers and avatars referencing Toronto Maple Leafs are actually so accustomed to losing that they don't want to win.

If they get Luongo and the team wins then they won't get a shot at McKinnon or Jones this year.

What about holding out for McDavid or the next 11 year old phenom. When does this loser mentality end.

Owners have egos and they like to win and make more money. Playoffs strokes the ego and feeds the pocket books.

Earlier in the thread someone referenced the upcoming UFA goalies next year and if you think Luongo plays second fiddle to any of them you are mistaken. Luongo is not Toronto's only choice but he is their best choice. The one player on the market who can do more than any one else in changing the mentality of this organization. And all he gets is crapped on by those he could help most.
To be fair, most of us openly admit that Luongo would be beneficial. It's the cost to aquire that would be the detriment.

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01-14-2013, 11:06 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I say leave Luongo in Vancouver.

Toronto can give Reimer a proper shot to play a healthy season in net (albeit an abbreviated version of one). The pressure to trade Luongo would almost certainly have to ratchet up to unbearable levels in Vancouver next year when the cap drops to $64M and they are looking at $60M the year after that
The cap isnt going to be under 64.3M the year after. It cant go below that in this CBA.

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01-14-2013, 11:08 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
To be fair, gillis stated in an interview yesterday what he is looking for in a Lui trade is very specific, so maybe value has been there, but it's not what he wants.

Point being we really know little besides some teams invlolved, and the "insiders" guesses at prices have done nothing but go up.
Beyond needing help at center....my guess is he's looking for a d-man so he can trade Ballard to NYI, DAL, MIN or one of the other teams looking for d help. Most of the teams that need D right now have lots of cap space.

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01-14-2013, 11:17 AM
  #414
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To be fair, most of us openly admit that Luongo would be beneficial. It's the cost to aquire that would be the detriment.
No disrepect intended....but I think you can agree that it's a bit silly to think you can improve your team dramtically by adding a star player without having to give up something of value to the seller. The Phanuef deal was great, but if the mentality of Burke and now Nonis is that you can swindle that kind of value.....you will be waiting a long time to see a winner. Both Burke and Nonis love the big trade, but they overvalue their assets and will throw out season after season not filling obvious holes. I alwasys got a kick out of Burke's whiny post deadline speach. He was always so put off by the fact other GMs did not want to get ripped off.

Entitlement. He was the perfect fit for the Leafs.

While Nonis likes to build from the net out, he also left massive obvious holes in our lineup unaddressed for his entire tenure. When Gillis came in he simply filled the holes and watched the cup run happen.

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01-14-2013, 11:18 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I say leave Luongo in Vancouver.

Toronto can give Reimer a proper shot to play a healthy season in net (albeit an abbreviated version of one). The pressure to trade Luongo would almost certainly have to ratchet up to unbearable levels in Vancouver next year when the cap drops to $64M and they are looking at $60M the year after that
Oh the horror.

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01-14-2013, 11:49 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I say leave Luongo in Vancouver.

Toronto can give Reimer a proper shot to play a healthy season in net (albeit an abbreviated version of one). The pressure to trade Luongo would almost certainly have to ratchet up to unbearable levels in Vancouver next year when the cap drops to $64M and they are looking at $60M the year after that

Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Upper Limit shall never fall below $64.3M during the
term of this Agreement and the magnitude of the Payroll Range shall never fall below
$16 million and never rise above $28 million (from Lower Limit to Upper Limit).


http://cdn.agilitycms.com/nhlpacom/P...ms-1-10-13.pdf

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Old
01-14-2013, 12:10 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I say leave Luongo in Vancouver.

Toronto can give Reimer a proper shot to play a healthy season in net (albeit an abbreviated version of one). The pressure to trade Luongo would almost certainly have to ratchet up to unbearable levels in Vancouver next year when the cap drops to $64M and they are looking at $60M the year after that
Why would it be $60 mil the year after...? Can't go below $64.3 mil...

The estimations over the next 4 years: $64.3, $64.3, $65.5, $69...

And those are conservative...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6976187/

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01-14-2013, 12:20 PM
  #418
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No disrepect intended....but I think you can agree that it's a bit silly to think you can improve your team dramtically by adding a star player without having to give up something of value to the seller. The Phanuef deal was great, but if the mentality of Burke and now Nonis is that you can swindle that kind of value.....you will be waiting a long time to see a winner. Both Burke and Nonis love the big trade, but they overvalue their assets and will throw out season after season not filling obvious holes. I alwasys got a kick out of Burke's whiny post deadline speach. He was always so put off by the fact other GMs did not want to get ripped off.

Entitlement. He was the perfect fit for the Leafs.

While Nonis likes to build from the net out, he also left massive obvious holes in our lineup unaddressed for his entire tenure. When Gillis came in he simply filled the holes and watched the cup run happen.
Many of us have offered something of value, though we differ quite differently on how much value the Leafs should give up for a goaltender who is far from an ideal fit, with a terrible contract, and few other suitors.

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01-14-2013, 12:26 PM
  #419
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This season yes. The dilemma is that his value goes down as time goes on. All of his value is located at the front end of his contract.

If he doesn't get traded this year because the offers aren't good enough, why should there be any expectation that those offers should improve? Logically they should go down, since his value goes down as 1 out of the ~4-6 good years on his contract is now gone.


And the cap drops drastically next year.

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01-14-2013, 12:30 PM
  #420
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And the cap drops drastically next year.
LOL! Only on HF would a possible cap issue two years down the road be seen as putting pressure on a team when compared to the Leafs obvious deficiencies in net. A team with two great goalies and a cap issue two years down the road is under the gun to make a deal while a team with a GM who just got fired and who had amongst the worst goaltending in the league last year is in the drivers seat.

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01-14-2013, 12:31 PM
  #421
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And the cap drops drastically next year.
To 64.3 and it can never go below that and Vancouver is clearing tons of cap next off season anyways, if you're waiting for a pinch point you're going to be waiting at least another 6-7 months and even then, it's likely the pressure changes.

Canucks are a better team with both goalies now than they would be with the offers being received, they may lower the expectations after this season, as their outlook might change.

I wouldn't bet on it though. The cap drops, Luongo is on a contract that circumvents the cap...it's an attractive contract for quite a few teams, fans can all agree to disagree on that though, no point flinging mud at eachother AGAIN.

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01-14-2013, 12:36 PM
  #422
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No disrepect intended....but I think you can agree that it's a bit silly to think you can improve your team dramtically by adding a star player without having to give up something of value to the seller. The Phanuef deal was great, but if the mentality of Burke and now Nonis is that you can swindle that kind of value.....you will be waiting a long time to see a winner. Both Burke and Nonis love the big trade, but they overvalue their assets and will throw out season after season not filling obvious holes. I alwasys got a kick out of Burke's whiny post deadline speach. He was always so put off by the fact other GMs did not want to get ripped off.

Entitlement. He was the perfect fit for the Leafs.

While Nonis likes to build from the net out, he also left massive obvious holes in our lineup unaddressed for his entire tenure. When Gillis came in he simply filled the holes and watched the cup run happen.
Which GM or the fan doesn't overate their players?, Burke tried to make a splash when he first arrived in Toronto making that "big" Kessel trade totally misjudging his teams overall skill and talent, traded 2 1st round picks and a 2nd which turned out to be Seguin, Hamilton and eventually costing him his job.

If the plan is to build a team for the future then it would be wise of Nonis to keep players like Gardiner, Reilly and 1st round picks, Getting Luongo would be nice and probably would get the Leafs into the playoffs but if the price is either or of those pieces above and its just not worth it.

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01-14-2013, 12:49 PM
  #423
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I can't wait for this whole ordeal to be over, lol. I actually feel sorry for Lou, he is trying to play good soilder, but the press is going top kill this. He is unfortuneatly in a no-win situation. Whether admitted or not the longer this is dragged out the better chance it has to turning into a disaster.

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01-14-2013, 12:50 PM
  #424
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01-14-2013, 12:54 PM
  #425
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Which GM or the fan doesn't overate their players?, Burke tried to make a splash when he first arrived in Toronto making that "big" Kessel trade totally misjudging his teams overall skill and talent, traded 2 1st round picks and a 2nd which turned out to be Seguin, Hamilton and eventually costing him his job.

If the plan is to build a team for the future then it would be wise of Nonis to keep players like Gardiner, Reilly and 1st round picks, Getting Luongo would be nice and probably would get the Leafs into the playoffs but if the price is either or of those pieces above and its just not worth it.
Or free agents like Armstrong, Komisarek, Finger, Connolly. What is that? $16 mil in cap space?

Ya the Canucks have huge issues with $9 mil on two top goalies.

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