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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:55 PM
  #851
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
True the Canucks can hold onto Luongo. It's probably even the smart move given the short season in case Schneider gets hurt or falters. But that won't increase his trade value. The longer Vancouver holds onto RL, the less they will get in return.

With the possible exception of him standing on his head and winning a Cup this season. But in that situation, Vancouver would be looking to trade Schneider instead.
And what are you basing this on? Because I'm pretty sure that there are teams that may be willing to use a compliance buy-out on their current goalie for an opportunity to fit Luongo onto their team. Philly being a possibility, the Islanders being another possibility. Hell maybe even San Jose opens up?

You cannot definitively say that Luongo's value goes down in the off-season. I do not see one shred of evidence to suggest it would.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:55 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Of course. It's a high risk play that could cost Gillis his job if it backfires, but there's certainly upside to it.
Holding onto Luongo for the season doesn't put Gillis' job at risk.

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01-14-2013, 10:57 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by SoTzuMe View Post
Holding onto Luongo for the season doesn't put Gillis' job at risk.
Asking Aquilini to write a $30M cheque to buy him out might, which is why it's absolutely absurd that some people in the media have even suggested this as a possibility.

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Old
01-14-2013, 10:57 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
And what are you basing this on? Because I'm pretty sure that there are teams that may be willing to use a compliance buy-out on their current goalie for an opportunity to fit Luongo onto their team. Philly being a possibility, the Islanders being another possibility. Hell maybe even San Jose opens up?

You cannot definitively say that Luongo's value goes down in the off-season. I do not see one shred of evidence to suggest it would.
If he sits on the Canucks bench and gathers rust, his value decreases. If he plays a chunk of the season his value could stay the same or rise.

In either scenario, adding more interested teams to the table would inflate the price slightly.

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01-14-2013, 10:58 PM
  #855
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I also predict Luongo will get traded when a contenders starter goes down for the remainder of the season (or like i said above) The hawks decide the need a quality starter.


I see the hawks offering up Pirri + Morin + 1st (or something a long those lines) - maybe switch out Pirri for Kruger.
Where is the reason for Vancouver to make this deal, both guys are more suspect than prospect.

Vancouver needs help to their roster, not a couple meddling prospects.

Geez.

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01-14-2013, 10:58 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Asking Aquilini to write a $30M cheque to buy him out might, which is why it's absolutely absurd that some people in the media have even suggested this as a possibility.
Where did I suggest that?

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01-14-2013, 10:58 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Certainly a possibility... although obviously not the intention.



Less than whatever's being offered now. If I was Nonis, it wouldn't be Bozak+ right now.

The only way Luongo becomes a more desirable goaltender is if he wins back the starting job and plays a substantial portion of his team's games... at which point, I have a tough time believing that the Canucks are going to be prepared to trade their #1 goaltender. There's absolutely nothing he can prove in a backup / #1b role that's better than what he did as a #1.
Patently false. Desirability is largely predicated on necessity, which is not affected by Luongo's play. Example; a glass of water is infinitely more desirable to a person dying of thirst than it is to a person swimming in a lake.

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01-14-2013, 10:58 PM
  #858
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You mean fans, not general managers, decided that they want nothing to do with him? And you don't usually pick sides, am I right?


Well, I guess we are all here talking about nothing, lets close up shop folks.
The word "like" usually means fans.

some of you guys get so caught up in these deals that we as "fans" have so little control over. Nothing worth losing sleep over.

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01-14-2013, 10:58 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
I also predict Luongo will get traded when a contenders starter goes down for the remainder of the season (or like i said above) The hawks decide the need a quality starter.


I see the hawks offering up Pirri + Morin + 1st (or something a long those lines) - maybe switch out Pirri for Kruger.
I agree with the first part, especially with the slow build after the CBA was approved.

The second part, the proposal, misses the point of what we'd be looking for however, especially if we're giving a rival team the big piece they're missing to be, frankly, frightning.

If Chicago was in to this mess of a saga, Vancouver would want pieces that can compete now, and have as big an impact on our roster as Lu would have on yours. I know Chicago would want nothing to do with sending the kinds of players we'd want back, but straight futures, and not even the best in Chicagos system, isn't enough incentive to encourage us to make a monster in Chicago I'm afraid.

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01-14-2013, 11:00 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Where is the reason for Vancouver to make this deal, both guys are more suspect than prospect.

Vancouver needs help to their roster, not a couple meddling prospects.

Geez.
Vancouver seems to want a little of everything?

I quite dislike the hawks, but they are in need of depth as well, i dont see a quality roster player coming over from them.

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01-14-2013, 11:01 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
True the Canucks can hold onto Luongo. It's probably even the smart move given the short season in case Schneider gets hurt or falters. But that won't increase his trade value. The longer Vancouver holds onto RL, the less they will get in return.

With the possible exception of him standing on his head and winning a Cup this season. But in that situation, Vancouver would be looking to trade Schneider instead.
By holding on to Luongo the only reason his value drops is if every other teams goalies do well. Now honestly do you think that there are not going to be injuries/disapointments at the goalie position this entire year? Not to mention we are coming out of a lockout where most goalies have not had real game action. I'll give you a hint: groin. Most common injury for goalie. Hmmmmmm.......I know most people give Canucks worst case scenario, but then automatically give a pass to all the other teams/players. There is a mixture of risk some for the Canucks, but also some for every other team out there.

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01-14-2013, 11:02 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
Vancouver seems to want a little of everything?

I quite dislike the hawks, but they are in need of depth as well, i dont see a quality roster player coming over from them.
Not really. 2nd line winger or center that's not a vet, with maybe some upside and a prospect.

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01-14-2013, 11:03 PM
  #863
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Yeah, I could see Luongo garnering interest among teams like San Jose, Chicago, New Jersey, and Tampa Bay - if they struggle with their goaltending this season. These are all teams that should be competing hard for the cup right now and can't afford to miss the playoffs with the current players they have (especially San Jose and Tampa Bay - with their window shrinking due to the age of their stars).

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01-14-2013, 11:04 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
If Gillis trades Luongo for Bozak + Kadri now it should severely impact his job safety.

If Gillis rolls with Luongo this season and trades Luongo later it will not impact his job safety.

Canucks fans would much rather keep Luongo this season and risk trading him later then get back a Bozak + Kadri return. I don't know why you don't get it. Those packages are simply not good enough.
Not really. If he does that and Schneider is the real deal, he's laughing. 26 year old centre to fill the gap for Kesler and then play a checking role, and high potential offensive prospect... not that he's going to get that package.

If Gillis rolls with this season and then finds that he's got to either buy out, or retain some of Luongo's salary to get rid of him next year, that's going to put him on thin ice if they don't win the cup.

I fully understand that Canucks fans think the packages are going to get better. I fully understand that they're delusional as to what the market dictates. That doesn't mean Gillis is. He knows the best package for Luongo is most likely going to come right now, the question is, with the possibility that a replacement goaltender isn't included, is what the Canucks lose in terms of decreased trade values & future cap liability worth keeping him this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Patently false. Desirability is largely predicated on necessity, which is not affected by Luongo's play. Example; a glass of water is infinitely more desirable to a person dying of thirst than it is to a person swimming in a lake.
I'm talking about Luongo's desirability as a goaltender, not the league wide desire for goaltenders. The former is predictable, the latter is not. A glass of water is infinitely more desirable to a person dying of thirst, but a clean glass of water is always more desirable than a dirty one.

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01-14-2013, 11:04 PM
  #865
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Gunnarsson is a UFA as well.

JVR and Lupul are, and always were, my ideal targets for a centrepiece.
Hence the ++. But he's cheap and I understand he can play the right side.

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01-14-2013, 11:05 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
And what are you basing this on? Because I'm pretty sure that there are teams that may be willing to use a compliance buy-out on their current goalie for an opportunity to fit Luongo onto their team. Philly being a possibility, the Islanders being another possibility. Hell maybe even San Jose opens up?

You cannot definitively say that Luongo's value goes down in the off-season. I do not see one shred of evidence to suggest it would.
If he's still available by the summer then he's older, officially lost his starting position, and still hasn't won a cup.

Even with more suitors, the price will go down. Imo, there simply isn't a scenario where Gillis gets his star player in return. He can accept that now or later but eventually he'll have to accept that. No one is giving up a young 1st line/top pair player or a bluechipper.

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01-14-2013, 11:06 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Yeah, I could see Luongo garnering interest among teams like San Jose, Chicago, New Jersey, and Tampa Bay - if they struggle with their goaltending this season.
Yeah seems like that's the only scenario right now left to play out that can result in a Luongo trade.

If he's a Canuck on opening day, we all can finally say something with relative certainty with this whole endless saga, which is that there is no serious market for Luongo and never was.

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01-14-2013, 11:07 PM
  #868
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"Desire" is not a one way street. People act like Luongo's value will undoubtedly decrease in the offseason, but what does it mean when a team like TOR again flops and misses the playoffs, to again be presented with the same option to upgrade? Are they more or less willing to deal at this point?



The field is ever changing. However, the talent around the league is limited. It becomes even more narrow the better that talent is. This is where Luongo fits in. There are few players like him, and ever-changing options. I like the position Gillis is in.

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01-14-2013, 11:09 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
"Desire" is not a one way street. People act like Luongo's value will undoubtedly decrease in the offseason, but what does it mean when a team like TOR again flops and misses the playoffs, to again be presented with the same option to upgrade? Are they more or less willing to deal at this point?



The field is ever changing. However, the talent around the league is limited. It becomes even more narrow the better that talent is. This is where Luongo fits in. There are few players like him, and ever-changing options. I like the position Gillis is in.
If a house sits on the market for a year and finally someone wants to buy the house, do you think the seller will get the original asking price? I doubt it.

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01-14-2013, 11:10 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'm talking about Luongo's desirability as a goaltender, not the league wide desire for goaltenders. The former is predictable, the latter is not. A glass of water is infinitely more desirable to a person dying of thirst, but a clean glass of water is always more desirable than a dirty one.
The two go hand in hand.

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01-14-2013, 11:10 PM
  #871
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
"Desire" is not a one way street. People act like Luongo's value will undoubtedly decrease in the offseason, but what does it mean when a team like TOR again flops and misses the playoffs, to again be presented with the same option to upgrade? Are they more or less willing to deal at this point?



The field is ever changing. However, the talent around the league is limited. It becomes even more narrow the better that talent is. This is where Luongo fits in. There are few players like him, and ever-changing options. I like the position Gillis is in.
It will. He'll go from a guy who's 3 games removed from the #1 job to a full season. That is within Gillis' control, and presumably, his intention.

As for Toronto, their desire for a goaltender could increase dramatically, or be eradicated all together. You suggesting that the Leafs are incapable of succeeding with James Reimer in net is no more valid than me suggesting that the Leafs are more than capable of succeeding with James Reimer in net.

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01-14-2013, 11:11 PM
  #872
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Not really. If he does that and Schneider is the real deal, he's laughing. 26 year old centre to fill the gap for Kesler and then play a checking role, and high potential offensive prospect... not that he's going to get that package.

If Gillis rolls with this season and then finds that he's got to either buy out, or retain some of Luongo's salary to get rid of him next year, that's going to put him on thin ice if they don't win the cup.

I fully understand that Canucks fans think the packages are going to get better. I fully understand that they're delusional as to what the market dictates. That doesn't mean Gillis is. He knows the best package for Luongo is most likely going to come right now, the question is, with the possibility that a replacement goaltender isn't included, is what the Canucks lose in terms of decreased trade values & future cap liability worth keeping him this year.
A) You don't know that the package gets worse in the summer. You've admitted that yourself. All you need is an extra buyer or two or for Luongo to play a significant portion of the season.

B) Why would Gillis be on thin ice if his team is still in contending form? You really think one mistake is enough for a guy who has built up this much goodwill to be in the hot seat? That's delusional given that Burke had to make several big mistakes, clash with the media, and place in the bottom third of the league in his tenure to lose his job.

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01-14-2013, 11:12 PM
  #873
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
"Desire" is not a one way street. People act like Luongo's value will undoubtedly decrease in the offseason, but what does it mean when a team like TOR again flops and misses the playoffs, to again be presented with the same option to upgrade? Are they more or less willing to deal at this point?
Didn't Luongo state today that he was happy to play for the Canucks this year but didn't see a long term fit with the Canucks? Or something along the lines of that?

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01-14-2013, 11:12 PM
  #874
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I'd love to see the Canucks face Luongo in the playoffs. We all know how the Canucks manage to make many goalies look like superstars. They'd probably make Lu look like ... a generational talent?

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01-14-2013, 11:12 PM
  #875
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The two go hand in hand.
Yes they do.

Factor 1 will decrease Luongo's value.
Factor 2 will is completely unknown and can increase or decrease Luongo's value with equal probability.

The 2 factors will work together, which suggests that it's more likely that Luongo's value decreases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoTzuMe View Post
A) You don't know that the package gets worse in the summer. You've admitted that yourself. All you need is an extra buyer or two or for Luongo to play a significant portion of the season.

B) Why would Gillis be on thin ice if his team is still in contending form? You really think one mistake is enough for a guy who has built up this much goodwill to be in the hot seat? That's delusional given that Burke had to make several big mistakes, clash with the media, and place in the bottom third of the league in his tenure to lose his job.
No I don't, I can just my brain, like Gillis can, to realize that the package is most likely going to get worse. An extra buyer or two increases the market for him. A buyer or two less decreases the market for him. Nobody knows which will happen. What we know, is that it is the Canucks intention to hurt Luongo's desriability by reducing his workload.

Gillis would be on thin ice because he totally mishandled his goaltending situation despite being given an out, and cost the team long term as a result. He's been in his job a few years now, and failed to be successful.

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