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Trade Rumors and Proposals: Part XXXII

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01-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #226
ATdaisuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operasen View Post
What would an offer sheet look like - he's wanting 4-5M over a 5 year deal its reported.
montreal doesn't want to give him that much? i think we could easily give him 5 mil if that's what he wants. he takes gonchar's spot next season and it solves our defense issue this season. we save 500k on cap hit in that exchange. we could even give him 5.5 mil as we lose gonchar.

would he sign here? if we give him what he wants, i think he would.

methot/cowen-karlsson
methot/cowen-subban
phillips-x

if montreal matches, that's fine. he probably would have signed there anyway, but probably at a lower price.

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Originally Posted by WantEggRoll View Post
Lehner needs to play as many games as possible at this stage of his career. His current situation is different from the defensemen. Go back and look at the past two seasons for Robin and you will notice he has not played a ton of hockey. That is why I said he will be a starting goaltender either in Ottawa or Binghamton and not a backup. Forcing him into a backup role only serves to hurt Lehner's overall development.

If you think a General Manager is going to let his coach hinder the development of a player they have invested a ton of time and money into just to win in a shortened season, then I don't have much else to say.
i think i partially agree with this. unless a good deal comes around including bishop, don't move him. there are 42 (i think) games left for the bsens this season. have him play 30 or so of them. if he plays 40% of the games as back-up to andy this season, he only gets 19 or 20 games. next season have him back up, 40% or the games means he plays 32-33 games. maybe even have him play 45%.
i am not completely against having him back-up this year though, as i think he is the better goalie out of him and bishop. winning is important. playing nhl games as a backup is part of most goalie's development paths. lehner has to play in the nhl sooner rather than later, and he most likely won't be handed the starting job.

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01-16-2013, 04:18 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Would rather not offer sheet for Subban. His play didn't improve last year (some would say it actually declined), and there's no telling whether or not he will be improving to what is expected of him. He's a nice player, but he's not the type that we need to over-reach for.

I'm content to wait and see what the team we already have put together can do. I don't know why people automatically assume we are weak on D. Benoit, Wierchioch and Boro have all shown promise and Lundin will be back soon. Karlsson - Methot - Gonchar - Phillips is a pretty high caliber top 4 to be honest, and we have a bit of depth on the back-end (even Ceci is available in a pinch).

There's really no need to make any hasty moves until we know what we have. Signing a depth defenceman is all we really need right now.
personally i don't think we contend this year without another top 4 defenceman. that top 4 isn't high caliber, but it's not as bad as some people are making it out to be though, depending on how karlsson and methot mesh. if we get subban we'll still have a spot open on defense. i'd like to see wier there.
pp defense pairings -
karlsson - wier
subban - gonchar

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01-16-2013, 04:42 PM
  #228
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I think there is a couple things people are leaving out/forgetting.

1: Montreal is P.K.'s childhood team. He wants to stay there.
2: He wants a long term contract 5 years + Montreal wants to sign him to a 2-3 year deal.
3: They are close on salary.

If you make an offersheet to Subban it doesnt mean Montreal has to match it or he is ours, Subban gets to decide if he is going to accept it or not. Montreal was Subban's childhood team. He wants to stay there.

No one is going to get Subban but Montreal.

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01-16-2013, 05:04 PM
  #229
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Claim Lilja, problem solved. He's been pretty bad the past few years but we're looking for a place holder and nothing says place holder like Andreas Lilja. Its just a bonus that he's Swedish. He'll fit right into our little Hockey commune.

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01-16-2013, 05:12 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
I think there is a couple things people are leaving out/forgetting.

1: Montreal is P.K.'s childhood team. He wants to stay there.
2: He wants a long term contract 5 years + Montreal wants to sign him to a 2-3 year deal.
3: They are close on salary.

If you make an offersheet to Subban it doesnt mean Montreal has to match it or he is ours, Subban gets to decide if he is going to accept it or not. Montreal was Subban's childhood team. He wants to stay there.

No one is going to get Subban but Montreal.
honestly didn't know that subban was a habs fan.
if they don't get a deal soon, subban could get frustrated and consider an offer sheet. with the knowledge that playing for montreal was his childhood dream, it pretty much eats away all the hope i had of maybe getting him. if he does get frustrated with his contract negotiation in montreal (seems unlikely if they are close on salary. subban will take the reduced years to play for the habs), then i think ottawa would be a choice based on proximity (or maybe toronto, since he's from around there). 5.5 X 5 years might tempt him if his negotiations go sour.
though all of that is even more unlikely than i thought it was

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01-16-2013, 05:24 PM
  #231
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Lilja makes some sense I guess. MacLean obviously knows him very well, he's dirt cheap and would replace some of the size and penalty killing Cowen provided. On the other hand you'd have to be concerned with his injuries and that he couldn't beat Bruno Gervais and Kurtis Foster for a job.

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01-16-2013, 06:05 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by ATdaisuki View Post
personally i don't think we contend this year without another top 4 defenceman. that top 4 isn't high caliber, but it's not as bad as some people are making it out to be though, depending on how karlsson and methot mesh. if we get subban we'll still have a spot open on defense. i'd like to see wier there.
pp defense pairings -
karlsson - wier
subban - gonchar
Karlsson - arguably the best defenceman in the league
Gonchar - has had very few bad seasons in the NHL, and has seen a bit of a resurgence this year in the KHL. He's also on a contract year.
Phillips - has always been a rock for this team, though he has been scapegoated at times. He's still a good top 4 defenceman.
Methot - played for team Canada and has been very solid throughout his career. Playing with Karlsson will only make him look better.

IDK our top 4 on D looks pretty solid to me. Our depth is fine, too, because those guys aren't going to be eating a lot of minutes and will likely end up paired with one of the veterans.

Again, I'm an advocate of waiting to see what we have before making any move of significance. Signing a depth defenceman is the right move here.

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01-16-2013, 07:09 PM
  #233
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PK Subban 5y 5m would do it for sure (1st and 3rd) but montreal would match.

Ottawa is gonna have a big hole 2nd line RH D-man next year with not many availiable as UFA's.

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01-16-2013, 07:14 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
PK Subban 5y 5m would do it for sure (1st and 3rd) but montreal would match.

Ottawa is gonna have a big hole 2nd line RH D-man next year with not many availiable as UFA's.
Ceci RD could be the guy to fill that hole if he is NHL ready. Gryba RD is also a right shot as is Sdao RD who should be in Bingo next season. Then there is the possibility that Ottawa could sign NCAA player Andrej Sustre who I believe is also a right shot. That's four right shots who could all be in Bingo or one of them in Ottawa.

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01-16-2013, 07:20 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Karlsson - arguably the best defenceman in the league
Gonchar - has had very few bad seasons in the NHL, and has seen a bit of a resurgence this year in the KHL. He's also on a contract year.
Phillips - has always been a rock for this team, though he has been scapegoated at times. He's still a good top 4 defenceman.
Methot - played for team Canada and has been very solid throughout his career. Playing with Karlsson will only make him look better.

IDK our top 4 on D looks pretty solid to me. Our depth is fine, too, because those guys aren't going to be eating a lot of minutes and will likely end up paired with one of the veterans.

Again, I'm an advocate of waiting to see what we have before making any move of significance. Signing a depth defenceman is the right move here.
That is a below average defense in the NHL, but alot of people might have missed the memo, we're supposed to be rebuilding.

Wiercioch getting ice time is supposed to be a good thing. Hopefully he is much improved(on both ends) since his last call up.

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01-16-2013, 07:41 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
That is a below average defense in the NHL, but alot of people might have missed the memo, we're supposed to be rebuilding.

Wiercioch getting ice time is supposed to be a good thing. Hopefully he is much improved(on both ends) since his last call up.
Dunno how that could be considered a below average defence in the NHL. Any real reasoning behind that statement? Unless you take the 2010-11 season as a benchmark for our defencemen that is in no way a below average defence.

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01-16-2013, 07:51 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Dunno how that could be considered a below average defence in the NHL. Any real reasoning behind that statement? Unless you take the 2010-11 season as a benchmark for our defencemen that is in no way a below average defence.
HF considers Ottawa's defense below average

Your really over rating Phillips and Gonchar. At this point Phillips is more of a #5.

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01-16-2013, 08:02 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
Ceci RD could be the guy to fill that hole if he is NHL ready. Gryba RD is also a right shot as is Sdao RD who should be in Bingo next season. Then there is the possibility that Ottawa could sign NCAA player Andrej Sustre who I believe is also a right shot. That's four right shots who could all be in Bingo or one of them in Ottawa.
I think that they could fill in as a 5-6, but top 4 that would be quite the jump

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01-16-2013, 08:03 PM
  #239
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HF considers Ottawa's defense below average

Your really over rating Phillips and Gonchar. At this point Phillips is more of a #5.
Regardless of what HF considers Ottawa's defence to be we leaned heavily on Gonchar and Phillips last year to bring us to the playoffs and they delivered. In the playoffs they were both above average at the blueline. That's what counts. Opinions of a message board or a fan run hockey site don't matter; performance is what matters.

Until they falter and prove to be less than top 4 defenceman I would consider them as such. Methot is a young, powerful top 4 defenceman in his prime and Karlsson is arguably the best defenceman in the world. Unless I'm missing something I don't see how this translates into a below average defence. We're not one of the best defensive teams in the league, but we're far from the worst.

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01-16-2013, 08:11 PM
  #240
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I think defensively, we weren't very good at all last year. We were so streaky... sure, we had Karlsson leading the way offensively, and he's no slouch defensively either, but you look at some stats: 29th in the league in shots allowed is huge. 24th in goals against. We had the 3rd most powerplay goals scored against us (and had the 20th overall PK in the league)... we were a pretty bad defensive team.

I think we addressed a major defensive deficiency by adding Methot, but with the injuries we've had, especially to two of our 3 best defensive defencemen, I can absolutely see why people would rag on our defence.

It's up to the kids right (Boro + Weir) now to see us through. It's a dicey proposition, to say the least.

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01-16-2013, 08:12 PM
  #241
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Dunno how that could be considered a below average defence in the NHL. Any real reasoning behind that statement? Unless you take the 2010-11 season as a benchmark for our defencemen that is in no way a below average defence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Karlsson - arguably the best defenceman in the league
Gonchar - has had very few bad seasons in the NHL, and has seen a bit of a resurgence this year in the KHL. He's also on a contract year.
Phillips - has always been a rock for this team, though he has been scapegoated at times. He's still a good top 4 defenceman.
Methot - played for team Canada and has been very solid throughout his career. Playing with Karlsson will only make him look better.
Karlsson is Erik Karlsson. (the reason this defense isn't rated in the bottom five)

Gonchar is 38 years old, and he isn't Nick Lidstrom. He has declined severely over the years, but has in two years, been a disappointment and a solid d-man. Solid, but not great, at all. If he doesnt decline(big if) a #3-4 d-man.

Phillips has been closer to a #4-5 for most of last year. Sure he is solid defensively, well most of the time, but he doesn't have the hockey skill to survive aging without a decline in his game.

I like Methot, but like Kuba few years ago, he was injured and had a bit of an off year, another middle pairing guy. Not spectacular.

Basically, its a combination of a lack of solid two-way d-man, combined with the age of these d-men, who are a risk for decline and a ton of question marks. #20 right now is a pretty good rating, actually. They could be better, but its a practical rating based on risk. Expecting 28 year old Gonchar to show up, is not likely gonna happen.

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01-16-2013, 08:25 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Regardless of what HF considers Ottawa's defence to be we leaned heavily on Gonchar and Phillips last year to bring us to the playoffs and they delivered. In the playoffs they were both above average at the blueline. That's what counts. Opinions of a message board or a fan run hockey site don't matter; performance is what matters.

Until they falter and prove to be less than top 4 defenceman I would consider them as such. Methot is a young, powerful top 4 defenceman in his prime and Karlsson is arguably the best defenceman in the world. Unless I'm missing something I don't see how this translates into a below average defence. We're not one of the best defensive teams in the league, but we're far from the worst.
Well, the list had us at 20th, which is probably still considered by most to be far from the worst. I think were below average because we lack the depth that the guys ahead of us on the list have.

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01-16-2013, 09:21 PM
  #243
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I think that they could fill in as a 5-6, but top 4 that would be quite the jump
Ceci RD has top 4 potential, doesn't he? And Wiercioch LD has top 4 potentential as well I think.

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01-16-2013, 10:04 PM
  #244
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I think defensively, we weren't very good at all last year. We were so streaky... sure, we had Karlsson leading the way offensively, and he's no slouch defensively either, but you look at some stats: 29th in the league in shots allowed is huge. 24th in goals against. We had the 3rd most powerplay goals scored against us (and had the 20th overall PK in the league)... we were a pretty bad defensive team.

I think we addressed a major defensive deficiency by adding Methot, but with the injuries we've had, especially to two of our 3 best defensive defencemen, I can absolutely see why people would rag on our defence.

It's up to the kids right (Boro + Weir) now to see us through. It's a dicey proposition, to say the least.
Shots against can be a very misleading stat, scoring chances allowed would be a more appropriate measurement.

The PK numbers weren't good for sure, but that isn't necessarily a reflection solely on the defense. What the Sens lacked was more physical play from the back end, Methot should help replace Cowen and Boro will add a little if he makes the squad.

While I would be more confident with Cowen, Karlsson, Gonchar, Methot, Phillips and Weircoich, I don't believe the group they have will be terrible.

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01-16-2013, 10:08 PM
  #245
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When did Van fans take over our spot as #1 *******s to leaf fans..i know Montreal had it first but is there some sort of rotation of leading the Leaf hatred among Canadian teams?

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01-16-2013, 10:13 PM
  #246
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When did Van fans take over our spot as #1 *******s to leaf fans
On these boards? Probably due to all the bad blood generated in the Luongo trade threads.

If I had to deal with a full calendar year of lowball proposals, I'd be raging too.

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01-16-2013, 10:22 PM
  #247
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Shots against can be a very misleading stat, scoring chances allowed would be a more appropriate measurement.
Agreed, though since the NHL doesn't track "scoring chances" as a stat, it becomes quite subjective.

To address your point, however, I think the Sens gave up WAY too many scoring chances last year. Without anything to compare it to however (as I can't quantify scoring chances of other teams, or make any kind of accurate comparison), my opinion is just that: one guy's opinion.

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01-16-2013, 10:28 PM
  #248
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Dunno how that could be considered a below average defence in the NHL. Any real reasoning behind that statement? Unless you take the 2010-11 season as a benchmark for our defencemen that is in no way a below average defence.
Other than Methot, who else plays a good defensive role right now? Even he is a question mark right now and Phillips has been getting worse every year.


Last edited by Gil Gunderson: 01-16-2013 at 10:36 PM.
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01-16-2013, 10:34 PM
  #249
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On these boards? Probably due to all the bad blood generated in the Luongo trade threads.

If I had to deal with a full calendar year of lowball proposals, I'd be raging too.
Kadri and a 2nd is fair and you know it!

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01-16-2013, 10:42 PM
  #250
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Regardless of what HF considers Ottawa's defence to be we leaned heavily on Gonchar and Phillips last year to bring us to the playoffs and they delivered. In the playoffs they were both above average at the blueline. That's what counts. Opinions of a message board or a fan run hockey site don't matter; performance is what matters.

Until they falter and prove to be less than top 4 defenceman I would consider them as such. Methot is a young, powerful top 4 defenceman in his prime and Karlsson is arguably the best defenceman in the world. Unless I'm missing something I don't see how this translates into a below average defence. We're not one of the best defensive teams in the league, but we're far from the worst.
Hey CJam good to see you around.

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