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Trade Rumors and Proposals: Part XXXII

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01-24-2013, 03:19 PM
  #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Below View Post
Foligno had 47 points last season... To me that is a potential second liner.
Our need on D, since we knew Kuba was leaving was more than a need for a winger - since we had more depth with Silfv coming up. Good GM's deal from a position of strength - no complaints with the trade so far...Methot is solid.

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01-24-2013, 03:33 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
Condra at 25yrs old:81GP 8G 17A 25Pts -- League avg scoring: 5.47 goals/gp
Kelly at 25yrs old: 82GP 10G 20A 30Pts -- League avg scoring: 6.17 goals/gp
...
Well with more analysis, Condra and Kelly outputs are even closer than I thought... Condra is an useful player and is kinda under appreciated here in Ottawa. He's pretty much Kelly's replacement, maybe not as good but very close.

Condra is certainly not some "filler" like some people are suggesting, he's a quality bottom-6 player

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
To Edmonton: Bishop G, Regin C/LW & Condra RW
To Ottawa: Jeff Petry RD & maybe a pick
...
Condra is a filler & I would like to see him replaced anyway in Ottawa with Stone or Zibane...
Seems a bit too much if there's no pick coming back, but I'm higher on Regin than most people. I still think we'd be giving up on him too fast. However, Petry might be a nice piece to have that it would be worth it to give those 3 assets.

Also, read Micklebot's post... Condra is not a filler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
Ott: Hainsey
Win: Bishop, Puempel, Hoffman
Remove Puempel and I'd probably do it... Wouldn't pay much more for Hainsey, certainly not a piece like Puempel on top of the 2 other assets... good D-man but Bishop and Hoffman are probably both worth a 2nd rounder, so is Hainsey worth more than that?

Also, don't the Jets need him? If they suck defensively, why would they move one of their best defensive D-man? (He blocks a lot of shots too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Why would Edmonton want Regin? Regin has little value, if any.

They'd want Zibby and Lehner, not Regin and Bishop.

ok THEY WANT that but are they ready to pay?

If we package Lehner and Zibanejad, we'd better be getting one of Eberle, Hall, Yakupov or RNH

Anyway, who cares what Oilers fans want? They're not the ones who make the trades... They're a bit silly too

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Below View Post
Foligno had 47 points last season... To me that is a potential second liner.
ok cool. It lacks a bit of insight though.


Last edited by Xspyrit: 01-24-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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01-24-2013, 03:49 PM
  #953
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Actually, foligno's even strength production placed him as a first liner last year. He just had no luck on the powerplay.

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01-24-2013, 03:52 PM
  #954
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Actually, foligno's even strength production placed him as a first liner last year. He just had no luck on the powerplay.
He wasn't even a regular on the PP







Funny to see all the Hawks fans on the trade board crapping on Methot. Hjalmarsson (a #4 at best) is ''much better'' than Methot according to them, and they've seen a lot of him.

Anyway, it's good he's playing well here but his performance in CBJ left something to be desired.

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01-24-2013, 04:02 PM
  #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Below View Post
Foligno had 47 points last season... To me that is a potential second liner.
47 points on the 4th highest scoring team in the NHL, playing many top six minutes.

IMO that isn't showing potential that is having the benefit of playing with productive players.

Foligno doesn't skate well enough or use his head often enough to play top six minutes on a reasonably good team IMO.

It is interesting to see Nick's TOI this year, first game 17:30, 2nd 15:49, 3rd 11:09.

Has the coaching staff in Columbus figured out Nick's potential already?

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01-24-2013, 04:08 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
47 points on the 4th highest scoring team in the NHL, playing many top six minutes.

IMO that isn't showing potential that is having the benefit of playing with productive players.

Foligno doesn't skate well enough or use his head often enough to play top six minutes on a reasonably good team IMO.

It is interesting to see Nick's TOI this year, first game 17:30, 2nd 15:49, 3rd 11:09.

Has the coaching staff in Columbus figured out Nick's potential already?
He played 1/3 of the season in the top 6 and 2/3 in the bottom 6. His even strength production was outstanding.

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01-24-2013, 04:09 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
He wasn't even a regular on the PP

Funny to see all the Hawks fans on the trade board crapping on Methot. Hjalmarsson (a #4 at best) is ''much better'' than Methot according to them, and they've seen a lot of him.

Anyway, it's good he's playing well here but his performance in CBJ left something to be desired.
Most players on a crappy team don't don't standout in a positive way.

What matters is how Methot plays with Karlsson and the Sens forward group.

So far he looks like a significant upgrade over Kuba.

At the same time Kuba in Florida doesn't look like the Kuba of Ottawa.

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01-24-2013, 04:11 PM
  #958
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Foligno rarely played in the top 6 last year. We'll be very fortunate if any of our bottom 6 guys can produce like that again this year (and by that, I mean it 100% won't happen).

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01-24-2013, 04:13 PM
  #959
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I think some of you guys are forgetting that Condra plays RW, and Kelly plays centre, which is a much more difficult position to fill.

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01-24-2013, 04:18 PM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Most players on a crappy team don't don't standout in a positive way.

What matters is how Methot plays with Karlsson and the Sens forward group.

So far he looks like a significant upgrade over Kuba.

At the same time Kuba in Florida doesn't look like the Kuba of Ottawa.
That speaks more to Karlsson's ability than Methot/Kuba's. Methot was bad in CBJ and looks good next to Karlsson. Theoretically, a guy like Bryan Allen would have looked nice as well. Could have signed him in free agency.

Methot is not an upgrade to last year's Kuba. Kuba was better offensively, played the PP and could actually shoot the puck.


Anyway, I'm done with this. Methot and the team look good so far so I'm happy

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01-24-2013, 04:19 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
He played 1/3 of the season in the top 6 and 2/3 in the bottom 6. His even strength production was outstanding.
I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I saw very little about NF's game last year that was outstanding.

Given he couldn't stay in the top six, nor was he given much PP time, is it possible MacLean didn't see anything outstanding either?

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01-24-2013, 04:23 PM
  #962
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What about the Devils as a possible destination for Bishop? Marty isn't exactly getting younger...

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01-24-2013, 04:25 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I saw very little about NF's game last year that was outstanding.

Given he couldn't stay in the top six, nor was he given much PP time, is it possible MacLean didn't see anything outstanding either?
lol, didn't say his play was outstanding. But the sheer number of points he put up was outstanding. That can't be ignored. He must have been doing something right.

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01-24-2013, 04:25 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
That speaks more to Karlsson's ability than Methot/Kuba's. Methot was bad in CBJ and looks good next to Karlsson. Theoretically, a guy like Bryan Allen would have looked nice as well. Could have signed him in free agency.

Methot is not an upgrade to last year's Kuba. Kuba was better offensively, played the PP and could actually shoot the puck.


Anyway, I'm done with this. Methot and the team look good so far so I'm happy
While there is no doubt Karlsson playing like the EK of last year definitely makes his partner's job easier.

However Karlsson hasn't played that well in the two games this year, Methot has been very good.

Just to provide a little balance in the Kuba vs Methot discussion, Methot is faster than Kuba, significantly more physical, better defensively and is actually making EKs job easier.

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01-24-2013, 04:26 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Well with more analysis, Condra and Kelly outputs are even closer than I thought... Condra is an useful player and is kinda under appreciated here in Ottawa. He's pretty much Kelly's replacement, maybe not as good but very close.

Condra is certainly not some "filler" like some people are suggesting, he's a quality bottom-6 player



Seems a bit too much if there's no pick coming back, but I'm higher on Regin than most people. I still think we'd be giving up on him too fast. However, Petry might be a nice piece to have that it would be worth it to give those 3 assets.

Also, read Micklebot's post... Condra is not a filler



Remove Puempel and I'd probably do it... Wouldn't pay much more for Hainsey, certainly not a piece like Puempel on top of the 2 other assets... good D-man but Bishop and Hoffman are probably both worth a 2nd rounder, so is Hainsey worth more than that?

Also, don't the Jets need him? If they suck defensively, why would they move one of their best defensive D-man? (He blocks a lot of shots too)



ok THEY WANT that but are they ready to pay?

If we package Lehner and Zibanejad, we'd better be getting one of Eberle, Hall, Yakupov or RNH

Anyway, who cares what Oilers fans want? They're not the ones who make the trades... They're a bit silly too



ok cool. It lacks a bit of insight though.
I meant "Filler" in the sense that he was an added peice to that package to make it more entising for Edmonton to maybe make the deal. I didn't think that Regin & Bishop would be enough for Petry but also I didn't want to add more than that. I added Condra because I think he may be expendable with Zibanejad & Stone coming, it's not a slight on Condra. Oh, I did say maybe a pick coming back just not sure which rd.


Last edited by aragorn: 01-24-2013 at 04:31 PM.
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01-24-2013, 04:27 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I saw very little about NF's game last year that was outstanding.

Given he couldn't stay in the top six, nor was he given much PP time, is it possible MacLean didn't see anything outstanding either?
It was more about maximizing your assets. Folingo's production in the top 6 vs bottom 6 was virtually identical. He didn't need a Spezza or Alfredsson to produce and could get it done with the likes of Neil. Its similar to Fisher. He's best suited as a 3rd line center but can play higher on the depth chart if needed. There are lots of players who can put up numbers but there aren't many who can do that on the 3rd/4th line.

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01-24-2013, 04:28 PM
  #967
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lol, didn't say his play was outstanding. But the sheer number of points he put up was outstanding. That can't be ignored. He must have been doing something right.
Never suggested NF didn't do something right.

All I said was he just isn't good enough or skilled enough to be a top six player on a good team.

I am not one that evaluates players on points alone.

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01-24-2013, 04:29 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
While there is no doubt Karlsson playing like the EK of last year definitely makes his partner's job easier.

However Karlsson hasn't played that well in the two games this year, Methot has been very good.

Just to provide a little balance in the Kuba vs Methot discussion, Methot is faster than Kuba, significantly more physical, better defensively and is actually making EKs job easier.
If EK's job is easier, why has he looked worse?

Kuba brought a calming presence back there, and his higher skill level contributed to the massive amount of offense Karlsson put up.

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01-24-2013, 04:34 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Candyintherain View Post
What about the Devils as a possible destination for Bishop? Marty isn't exactly getting younger...
MB and Moose are both signed for 2 years, NJ fans seem pretty comfortable with those two between the pipes, and their prospects are meant to be coming along nicely ..

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01-24-2013, 04:36 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
If EK's job is easier, why has he looked worse?

Kuba brought a calming presence back there, and his higher skill level contributed to the massive amount of offense Karlsson put up.
It's been 2 games but please stop. Kuba bascially did nothing last game and was outplayed by Methot by a large margin.

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01-24-2013, 04:42 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
It was more about maximizing your assets. Folingo's production in the top 6 vs bottom 6 was virtually identical. He didn't need a Spezza or Alfredsson to produce and could get it done with the likes of Neil. Its similar to Fisher. He's best suited as a 3rd line center but can play higher on the depth chart if needed. There are lots of players who can put up numbers but there aren't many who can do that on the 3rd/4th line.
Disagree with the Fisher comparison for one simple reason, Nick can't skate as well as Mike.

Fisher gets away with playing in the top six because he can keep up with the pace, as well he is so solid defensively.

If you had said NF has the better offensive skills, I would tend to agree he shows flashes of offensive skill Mike just doesn't possess.

However with the removal of the red line, the game is all about skating, unfortunately just not a strong suit of Nick's.

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01-24-2013, 04:52 PM
  #972
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If Mike Smith's injury is severe, Ben Bishop for Henrik Samuelsson?

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01-24-2013, 04:52 PM
  #973
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So I guess on Sportsnet, they talked about PHX possibly being interested in Bishop. Also heard they're shopping Yandle, though I'm not sure if for that purpose specifically.

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01-24-2013, 04:59 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
lol, didn't say his play was outstanding. But the sheer number of points he put up was outstanding. That can't be ignored. He must have been doing something right.
It was an opportunistic year for Foligno, a career year. I doubt he repeats. But don't get me wrong I was a Foligno fan too, that guy is awesome and was a very likeable player but seriously, we have tons of guys who could be as good or better

Unfortunately for Nick, Skating, defensive game, playmaking and goal scoring are not his forte, doesn't excel in any of this. He can score highlight reel goals too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
I meant "Filler" in the sense that he was an added peice to that package to make it more entising for Edmonton to maybe make the deal. I didn't think that Regin & Bishop would be enough for Petry but also I didn't want to add more than that. I added Condra because I think he may be expendable with Zibanejad & Stone coming, it's not a slight on Condra. Oh, I did say maybe a pick coming back just not sure which rd.
Okay, makes sense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
It was more about maximizing your assets. Folingo's production in the top 6 vs bottom 6 was virtually identical. He didn't need a Spezza or Alfredsson to produce and could get it done with the likes of Neil. Its similar to Fisher. He's best suited as a 3rd line center but can play higher on the depth chart if needed. There are lots of players who can put up numbers but there aren't many who can do that on the 3rd/4th line.
Good point but I don't think Foligno would be able to do that every year... I think he's more a ~35 pts guy, which is already very good on the 3rd line. He's a bit like Chris Kelly without the high end defensive game. Not a very good scoring touch, not a lot of playmaking skills but at the right place, at the right times contributing on the score sheet. Cool player but no worries as we already have guys like Latendresse, Greening and possibly Regin/Smith on the Left Wing. Foligno isn't an upgrade on any of those guys.

We also have several winger prospects we are developping... It's ok to clear spots for prospects as we move forward. A physical top-4 D-man is a hot commodity right now. Methot is more than welcome. We'd be in trouble without him

Phillips-Karlsson
Wiercioch-Gonchar
Foster/Huskins-Benoit
Borowiecki

???


Last edited by Xspyrit: 01-24-2013 at 05:08 PM.
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01-24-2013, 05:03 PM
  #975
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It's been 2 games but please stop. Kuba bascially did nothing last game and was outplayed by Methot by a large margin.
The point I was initially trying to make had nothing to do with Kuba specifically.

All I was suggesting was good players can look pretty average on bad teams, and average players can look solid on a good team.

Kuba looked so good last year in the eyes of many fans that they doubted Methot was an adequate replacement.

Yet Mehot skills actually are more synergistic with Karlsson than Kuba's were.

It has only been two games, but there is nothing to indicate this pairing will get worse, only better as EK gets his game going full swing.

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