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SabresTV: Beyond Blue & Gold Latest: S02E16, Domink Hasek (4/11/14)

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07-31-2013, 03:38 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Jacob582 View Post
If he has little to do with the draft why are you agreeing with me to blame him for only the bad?
I thought it was sarcasm.

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07-31-2013, 03:58 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
They weren't expecting Zadorov to be at 16. I think the San Jose deal may have been based on a player being there that got picked before buffalo. I think if the isles took Zadorov , and pollock was there they would have traded with San Jose. At San Jose pick they took Mantha.
San Jose moved up from 20 to 18, it was Detroit that took Mantha. I suspect Buffalo takes Compher at 20 there and banks the additional pieces, while San Jose takes Mueller like they did at 18.

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07-31-2013, 04:12 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Jacob582 View Post
Lets be clear. These picks are Darcy's fault:
Fienhage
Lagace
Southhorn
Jokinen
Boychuk
Henley
Shipley
Sutch
Luke Adam?
A couple of late round draft picks not panning out? Shocking . Other than Adam and Fienhage every one of these guys was drafted in the 4th Round or later

Pretty interesting episode btw, I'd love for these things to be a bit longer. I don't necessarily think that they had Risto at #4 though, they just knew or where at least very sure that Jones would never drop to #8, but that getting Risto in that spot was realistic, that's why he was so relieved when the Preds went with Jones.
It would be really interesting to see how they ranked Risto compared to Lindholm and Monahan though. It looks like they had Risto ahead of the other two, but that could also just be them wanting to make it look like they got the guy they wanted, no matter if this is actually true or not. I do believe however that they had Risto ahead of Lindholm and Monahan, but how big was the gap? Was it basically a wash for them and they would've been fine with either one, and just in the unlikely case that multiple guys had dropped they would've went with Risto? Or did they have him quite a bit ahead of the other two? Sadly we'll never know.

Zadorov certainly looks like he was an unexpectedly nice surprise for our scouting staff when he was still there at #16. I actually would've loved to hear some more talk about guys that not actually ended up with us, like which forward they would've targeted at #16, where they saw Nichushkin, a soundbite where Devine said "Wow that was a great pick/kind of a headscratcher" when another team picks, something like that. But the piece was just too short for that and therefore had to stay very Sabres-centric.

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07-31-2013, 05:33 PM
  #129
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A couple of late round draft picks not panning out? Shocking . Other than Adam and Fienhage every one of these guys was drafted in the 4th Round or later
I just looked at that draft to check the Fienhage pick. Fienhage in the 3rd round at 81st overall. Very next pick: Adam Henrique. That sucks.

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07-31-2013, 05:58 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
A couple of late round draft picks not panning out? Shocking . Other than Adam and Fienhage every one of these guys was drafted in the 4th Round or later
I agree.....


anything 4th round or later ----if they pan out to anything that skates at the NHL level is a bonus. You find a player who is a solid top 9/top 6 player---a double bonus.

I would also not count doing late picks on players who were older (>21) who played in europe.

do a count of how many players by team drafted 4th round or later satisfied this criteria.

Since 1997 picked 4th round or later by Buffalo that amounted to something in the NHL:

Campbell (1997-6)
Kotalik (1998-6)
Miller (1999-5)
Gaustead (2000-7)
Widement (2002-7) failed to sign with buffalo
Hejda (2003-4) rights were traded before he signed
Paetsch (2003-7)
Kaleta (2004-6)
Butler (2005-4)
Gerbe (2005-5)
Byron (2007-6)


so Fienhage and Adam are failures that do matter because they were picked in rounds 1-3 where teams need to be successful.

even in rounds 2 and 3 success still can be very spotty.

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07-31-2013, 07:23 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
This video confirms that Jame and Devine are one in the same. I think they both had Risto ranked at the same spot.

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07-31-2013, 07:36 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Probably. I mean we give Darcy credit for good trades and good signings, but if there is a bad trade its Lindy's fault or if there is contract criticism the excuse is past ownership.

So now people want to say Darcy is drafting great lately, well he has little to do with it. The guy is useless.
How do you even manage to turn on a computer with the way you think. "All good picks are Devine and all bad picks were Regier".

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08-01-2013, 02:17 AM
  #133
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How do you even manage to turn on a computer with the way you think. "All good picks are Devine and all bad picks were Regier".
I have never even said that. Thats how Regier fans think. All good moves are Regier's and all bad moves someone else is blamed.

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08-01-2013, 02:41 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I have never even said that. Thats how Regier fans think. All good moves are Regier's and all bad moves someone else is blamed.
Pretty certain that's not the case at all.

Most are objective and fair with their assessments. He has done some good things and had his mistakes.

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08-01-2013, 02:46 AM
  #135
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Pretty certain that's not the case at all.

Most are objective and fair with their assessments. He has done some good things and had his mistakes.
Without much winning and its been 15 years. Back in 2007 offseason we could give Darcy the benefit of the doubt, not 6 years later.

Darcy needs more pressure on him. Pressure brings urgency. Darcy has no pressure and no urgency.

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08-01-2013, 03:12 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I have never even said that. Thats how Regier fans think. All good moves are Regier's and all bad moves someone else is blamed.
There's no such thing as "Regier fans" as you put it, there's just people who don't buy into your ridiculous irrational agenda that blames Regier for absolutely everything regardless of any sort of context.

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08-01-2013, 06:15 AM
  #137
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There's no such thing as "Regier fans" as you put it, there's just people who don't buy into your ridiculous irrational agenda that blames Regier for absolutely everything regardless of any sort of context.
I think there are a blend of opinions.

Plenty of people look at Regier "winning" a lot of trades and the prospect pipeline looking healthy and are willing to give Regier more time under Pegula's ownership.

Then you have people that focus on the lack of winning and want a change at GM.

Ultimately, the lack of results on the ice and things getting worse with regards to the team's record under Pegula and the utter failure that the Leino signing has been to date has me ready for a change.

Regier has won a lot of trades. But, that hasn't translated to really good results on the ice.

I think they need a change.

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08-01-2013, 09:15 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
There's no such thing as "Regier fans" as you put it, there's just people who don't buy into your ridiculous irrational agenda that blames Regier for absolutely everything regardless of any sort of context.
I blame the guy I feel is in charge. Simple as that. If Regier is not in charge then why do people give him credit for certain moves?

I have blamed Larry Quinn and past ownership before, and then I see similar things happening under Pegula now. So what am I supposed to think?

I like the last few drafts, and I gave Regier credit. I was obviously giving the wrong guy credit. Its Devine who gets the credit. Why even defend Regier? There is nothing to even say other then the guy had his hands tied, which is a poor argument.

I have accepted the fact Regier may be here for a while longer, I just cant keep reading how confident people are in him until there is actual evidence that supports it. I dont have any faith in Regier, and I dont understand why any Sabres fan would.


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08-01-2013, 10:22 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I blame the guy I feel is in charge. Simple as that. If Regier is not in charge then why do people give him credit for certain moves?

I have blamed Larry Quinn and past ownership before, and then I see similar things happening under Pegula now.
So what am I supposed to think?
like what?

Quote:
I like the last few drafts, and I gave Regier credit. I was obviously giving the wrong guy credit. Its Devine who gets the credit. Why even defend Regier? There is nothing to even say other then the guy had his hands tied, which is a poor argument.

I have accepted the fact Regier may be here for a while longer, I just cant keep reading how confident people are in him until there is actual evidence that supports it. I dont have any faith in Regier, and I dont understand why any Sabres fan would.
You cant just call things a poor argument, because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Regier's hands were tied in some critical situations in the Golisano era, and the bankruptcy era... to call that a poor argument further weakens your position because it proves you're willing to be irrational, as long as that irrationality comports to your anger/bias/agenda

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08-01-2013, 10:50 AM
  #140
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I'm also somewhat gratified Devine's take on things matched what I was thinking for this team, that moving toward being tougher to play against. He was strong in his stance on Zadorov at 16, as he should've been.

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08-01-2013, 10:57 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
like what?



You cant just call things a poor argument, because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Regier's hands were tied in some critical situations in the Golisano era, and the bankruptcy era... to call that a poor argument further weakens your position because it proves you're willing to be irrational, as long as that irrationality comports to your anger/bias/agenda
Ok, I dont want to make every thread my own thread to bash Regier, I always seem to do that.

I do have an agenda, not ashamed of it. I dont like Regier. He is boring and just bland.

Devine is exactly what I want to see and hear coming from the Sabres. I would like more Devine throughout the year, it would make me feel better about the team.

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08-01-2013, 10:58 AM
  #142
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I'm also somewhat gratified Devine's take on things matched what I was thinking for this team, that moving toward being tougher to play against. He was strong in his stance on Zadorov at 16, as he should've been.
same here...

probably the most gratifying offseason in a long time. We see them going in the direction we've wanted (for years), and their thought process behind it is right on point with ours.

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08-01-2013, 11:00 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Ok, I dont want to make every thread my own thread to bash Regier, I always seem to do that.

I do have an agenda, not ashamed of it. I dont like Regier. He is boring and just bland.

Devine is exactly what I want to see and hear coming from the Sabres. I would like more Devine throughout the year, it would make me feel better about the team.
Who do you think promoted Devine, gave him more responsibility, more say in the process?

Or did you think a GMs job was just signing, trading, and drafting players?

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08-01-2013, 11:04 AM
  #144
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Who do you think promoted Devine, gave him more responsibility, more say in the process?

Or did you think a GMs job was just signing, trading, and drafting players?
Don't forget scouting of players, too

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08-01-2013, 11:05 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
There's no such thing as "Regier fans" as you put it, there's just people who don't buy into your ridiculous irrational agenda that blames Regier for absolutely everything regardless of any sort of context.
I think the video is a good example of how Regeir has a job. He doesn't let his ego get in the way and works well with his owner and staff in making every decision. My issue with Regeir in the past is that individually each move made perfect sense but the moves put together assemble a roster that didn't seem to have a lot of holes. Now, Pegula has been clear on what he wants. He wants a team with a certain identity-hardworking, high character and tough. Now with the big picture in place, Regier with not so subtle help from Devine can make the individual moves to allow that big picture to come to fruition.

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08-01-2013, 11:15 AM
  #146
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The Sabres being relieved Nashville took Jones instead of Risto at 4 does not mean they had Risto ranked ahead of Jones. That would be absurd. It means they knew that if Nashville took Risto, they would get neither.

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08-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Who do you think promoted Devine, gave him more responsibility, more say in the process?

Or did you think a GMs job was just signing, trading, and drafting players?
I dont know if its a plus that Darcy would stand to the side like that, I want my GM to be a leader type. But yeah, Devine getting power to do what he wants in the draft is a good move by Regier.

But who works with Regier in terms of other GM duties? Like what to do with Vanek?

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08-01-2013, 11:18 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I dont know if its a plus that Darcy would stand to the side like that, I want my GM to be a leader type. But yeah, Devine getting power to do what he wants in the draft is a good move by Regier.

But who works with Regier in terms of other GM duties? Like what to do with Vanek?
The coaching staff

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08-01-2013, 11:19 AM
  #149
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The Sabres being relieved Nashville took Jones instead of Risto at 4 does not mean they had Risto ranked ahead of Jones. That would be absurd. It means they knew that if Nashville took Risto, they would get neither.
not as absurd has north american hockey media made people think

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08-01-2013, 12:08 PM
  #150
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Love these videos. Nice to see some of the passion / team direction outside of the context of press conferences.

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