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The Luongo Thread: Sympathy For The Devil

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:38 PM
  #676
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Because need some comedy. TSN's The Reporters had this gem from a Luongo discussion.

Steve Simmons: The Leafs cannot possibly be this bad twice.
Bruce Arthur: ... were you born yesterday?

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01-17-2013, 12:41 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
My family has had Leaf season tickets for decades (now mine) and i would be more pissed if what you bolded happened. I have lived through the "sell the youth to win at all cost!!" era.....didn't get us jack squat. There is a time for a team to deal youth and first round picks for older players, it's when you think said player is the final piece. TO is not there.

This is in no way a knock on Luongo, Gillis or the Canucks orginization.
OK, but I assume that means Toronto isn't (or shouldn't) be in the market for Getzlaf or Perry this offseason? Toronto is also in the market to deal Kessel and Phaneuf for younger players and more picks? Or, are the veteran talent already on the Leafs ok, and as long as the veteran talent is acquired as an UFA, that's ok? It's just the recycling of youth for veteran talent that is off limits? I'm trying to envision what a Maple Leaf re-build looks like... I assume it looks like an Edmonton-type re-build, and therefore, little veteran talent to ensure top picks?

Predict Toronto's direction this season... Is it just maintain the status quo, and see which way the wind takes Toronto? Either way, is fine? Have things changed since this, thanks to the Nonis hiring?

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...e-to-leaf-fans

If it's changed, and Toronto is now in re-build mode, there's a communication issue in Toronto, IMHO, as the Leafs should be squashing the Luongo talk... Luongo doesn't help a re-build... Luongo will win games...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 01-17-2013 at 12:47 PM.
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Old
01-17-2013, 12:48 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
OK, but I assume that means Toronto isn't (or shouldn't) be in the market for Getzlaf or Perry this offseason? Toronto is also in the market to deal Kessel and Phaneuf for younger players and more picks? Or, are the veteran talent already on the Leafs ok, and as long as the veteran talent is acquired as an UFA, that's ok? It's just the recycling of youth for veteran talent that is off limits?

Predict Toronto's direction this season... Is it just maintain the status quo, and see which way the wind takes Toronto? Either way, is fine? Have things changed since this, thanks to the Nonis hiring?

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...e-to-leaf-fans
Where did i say don't sign vets? Unless the new CBA says we have to deal picks to sign UFA's then it's just cash no? Why is it so difficult to understand why SOME fans don't want to deal guys like Gardiner/Reilly or our 1st for a 33 year old player on a 10 year deal?

Again, what i said in the post that you quoted was don't trade the youth for a win at all cost now scenario.

Comparing signing a 33 year old UFA for cash to trading your best young pieces plus a 1st for a 33 year old on a 10 year deal that will carry penalties later on is ludicrous.

To your edit: I am not a member of tank nation, i want to win. That does not mean i want to sell the farm for Luongo.

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01-17-2013, 12:53 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Where did i say don't sign vets? Unless the new CBA says we have to deal picks to sign UFA's then it's just cash no? Why is it so difficult to understand why SOME fans don't want to deal guys like Gardiner/Reilly or our 1st for a 33 year old player on a 10 year deal?

Again, what i said in the post that you quoted was don't trade the youth for a win at all cost now scenario.

Comparing signing a 33 year old UFA for cash to trading your best young pieces plus a 1st for a 33 year old on a 10 year deal that will carry penalties later on is ludicrous.
If you're rebuilding, you shouldn't get Luongo, you shouldn't get Getzlaf, you shouldn't get Perry... You shouldn't keep Kessel... You should keep Gardiner... You should keep your 1st... The goal is to grow a young team together...

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01-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
If you're rebuilding, you shouldn't get Luongo, you shouldn't get Getzlaf, you shouldn't get Perry... You shouldn't keep Kessel... You should keep Gardiner... You should keep your 1st... The goal is to grow a young team together...
Could you please show me were i said we are rebuilding? Once again, just because i don't want to give a buttload for Luongo, does not mean i want to "tank or rebuild".

I hope we win. Would Luongo help? Yup. Is it worth dealing Gardiner/Reilly/1st? Nope.

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01-17-2013, 12:58 PM
  #681
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Liferleafer, we are not addressing YOU. We are pointing at the Leafs.

You are in no way a symbolic leader of the troupe; all signs point to the Leafs entering a rebuilding mode.
EDIT: Also, we are well aware of your fanbases' general feelings towards parting with any of your prospects/draft picks, reiteration, roughly 8 months after this trade speculation began, is irreverently irrelevant.

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01-17-2013, 12:58 PM
  #682
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The Leafs getting a strong goalie (whether it's Luongo or not) has another effect (not just on the standings). He makes the rest of the team better (I'm talking the developing offensive players) by letting them 'play their game' rather than worrying about making any kind of defensive mistake that will likely cause a goal against them.

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Old
01-17-2013, 01:00 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Could you please show me were i said we are rebuilding? Once again, just because i don't want to give a buttload for Luongo, does not mean i want to "tank or rebuild".

I hope we win. Would Luongo help? Yup. Is it worth dealing Gardiner/Reilly/1st? Nope.
OK. I thought you were in the "rebuild" group of Toronto fans... Whatever happens, you're good with... and also a season ticket holder... You're the best kind of fan

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01-17-2013, 01:00 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Where did i say don't sign vets? Unless the new CBA says we have to deal picks to sign UFA's then it's just cash no? Why is it so difficult to understand why SOME fans don't want to deal guys like Gardiner/Reilly or our 1st for a 33 year old player on a 10 year deal?

Again, what i said in the post that you quoted was don't trade the youth for a win at all cost now scenario.

Comparing signing a 33 year old UFA for cash to trading your best young pieces plus a 1st for a 33 year old on a 10 year deal that will carry penalties later on is ludicrous.

To your edit: I am not a member of tank nation, i want to win. That does not mean i want to sell the farm for Luongo.
I think you'd have a better chance of convincing UFA's to sign in media mad T.O., if you could actually show them they have a chance at the playoffs.

Would you sign with the Leafs, if your are Perry and Getzlaf? Lets say the money is equal in Toronto to say Pittsburgh, Detroit, Boston.....can you see them saying yeah, lets go to Toronto and help them rebuild?

I can't.

Now let's just say for the sake of it, that the Leafs moved Gardiner for Luongo.

Do you not think, that would be more attractive for a 27-29 year old free agent, likely looking at his last big pay day? go to a team with a solid foundation - Lu, Dion, Phil.

I mean you'll always find a kid like Justin Schultz looking for opportunity (with a sororiety like setting), but high end veteran free agents don't give Toronto a 2nd look if Reimer and Scrivens are in the pipes....maybe they do if it's Bernier (personally not sold on him...too small, not that good), but I doubt it.


Vancouver has first hand experience what a goalie like LU (albeit he's older now) can do to a market, fan base, as well as a signal to the rest of the players around the league.

Honestly, I'd prefer the Leafs to continue on their path, and I'd rather not discuss them, but we're large fan bases looking to chat....and basically that is all we've done for 9 months.

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01-17-2013, 01:04 PM
  #685
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Meanwhile we still have two elite goalies...


@mirtle

"My sense from Carlyle's presser is Frattin won't make the team to start season."

So all the junk that Leaf fans wanted to send...Lombardi, Connelly and now Frattin will not make the opening day roster. And their centers are Bozak and Kadri and maybe a displaced JVR once his foot heals up.

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01-17-2013, 01:05 PM
  #686
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Kessel is like 23, he can survive a rebuild. You still need some stability in your lineup to go through a rebuild, unless you are using the Oilers model, which we have no idea whether it will work or not.

So, Luongo makes a bit of sense for the Leafs, but not if you have to totally derail a rebuild. I haven't seen any indication that they are rebuilding yet though.

Luongo will get you into the playoffs (probably not this year though), if you have any type of team defense. If you don't want to make the playoffs, then don't trade for Luongo. Really, his best fit is the Oilers or Philly, but I don't know if he would even want to go to Edmonton. Florida is not close to winning, maybe TB would be a fit? I don't know. I want to give the guy a chance to win, or to show the fans there that he chokes at least once per series, whatever happens.

I keep hearing about Toronto, but they are not the best dance partner for Vancouver. They do not have the talent or depth to trade for Luongo. Getting rid of Luongo is not about clearing cap space, that's just a side benefit. You need legit pieces back for him, and Toronto cannot provide those.

TB maybe, Florida maybe, Edmonton maybe, Pilly definitely, I don't know enough about those teams to make a judgement call.

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Old
01-17-2013, 01:13 PM
  #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperswhip View Post
Kessel is like 23, he can survive a rebuild. You still need some stability in your lineup to go through a rebuild, unless you are using the Oilers model, which we have no idea whether it will work or not.

So, Luongo makes a bit of sense for the Leafs, but not if you have to totally derail a rebuild. I haven't seen any indication that they are rebuilding yet though.

Luongo will get you into the playoffs (probably not this year though), if you have any type of team defense. If you don't want to make the playoffs, then don't trade for Luongo. Really, his best fit is the Oilers or Philly, but I don't know if he would even want to go to Edmonton. Florida is not close to winning, maybe TB would be a fit? I don't know. I want to give the guy a chance to win, or to show the fans there that he chokes at least once per series, whatever happens.

I keep hearing about Toronto, but they are not the best dance partner for Vancouver. They do not have the talent or depth to trade for Luongo. Getting rid of Luongo is not about clearing cap space, that's just a side benefit. You need legit pieces back for him, and Toronto cannot provide those.

TB maybe, Florida maybe, Edmonton maybe, Pilly definitely, I don't know enough about those teams to make a judgement call.


Luongo is like 29, he's still got plenty of years left in his career and is currently in his prime. I don't see why anyone wouldn't want an in-prime top 5 goaltender.

Aside from that though, I think I pretty much agree with what you're trying to say.

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01-17-2013, 01:13 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
Meanwhile we still have two elite goalies...


@mirtle

"My sense from Carlyle's presser is Frattin won't make the team to start season."

So all the junk that Leaf fans wanted to send...Lombardi, Connelly and now Frattin will not make the opening day roster. And their centers are Bozak and Kadri and maybe a displaced JVR once his foot heals up.
The still have Komisarek

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Old
01-17-2013, 01:14 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
Meanwhile we still have two elite goalies...


@mirtle

"My sense from Carlyle's presser is Frattin won't make the team to start season."

So all the junk that Leaf fans wanted to send...Lombardi, Connelly and now Frattin will not make the opening day roster. And their centers are Bozak and Kadri and maybe a displaced JVR once his foot heals up.
Errr who else is left at Leafs camp?

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
Van Reimsdyk-Grabovski- Kadri
MacCarthur-McClement-Kulemin
Komarov-Steckel-Brown

? Am I missing people?

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01-17-2013, 01:15 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post


Luongo is like 29, he's still got plenty of years left in his career and is currently in his prime. I don't see why anyone wouldn't want an in-prime top 5 goaltender.

Aside from that though, I think I pretty much agree with what you're trying to say.
Uh...

Luongo's 33.

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01-17-2013, 01:16 PM
  #691
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How long has Toronto's goalie graveyard problem gone on? I think it has been quite some time.

Bernier has the continuation of that proud leaf tradition written all over it for the immediate future if that's the way they choose to go.

Between Toronto and Vancouver's history in that regard I like to think I can spot a pseudo "goalie of the future" from a mile away. Bernier fits the criteria perfectly. I would think leafs fans would be able to see it by now too.


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01-17-2013, 01:16 PM
  #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Errr who else is left at Leafs camp?

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
Van Reimsdyk-Grabovski- Kadri
MacCarthur-McClement-Kulemin
Komarov-Steckel-Brown

? Am I missing people?
That's actually not THAT bad, at least not as bad as Leaf fans have been suggesting. Give us Gardiner and a 1, and then the Leafs have an average defense to go with a pretty decent offense, and an elite goalie. Definitely a playoff team.

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01-17-2013, 01:17 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by Spectrefire View Post
Uh...

Luongo's 33.
And Kessel isn't 23....(I think you missed what I was getting at)

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01-17-2013, 01:19 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
That's actually not THAT bad, at least not as bad as Leaf fans have been suggesting. Give us Gardiner and a 1, and then the Leafs have an average defense to go with a pretty decent offense, and an elite goalie. Definitely a playoff team.
I keep pointing out that the Leafs offense is fine... it's their PK and Goaltending that is horrendous.

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01-17-2013, 01:25 PM
  #695
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Kadri is playing #3C for TML. Not #3RW.

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01-17-2013, 01:28 PM
  #696
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I keep pointing out that the Leafs offense is fine... it's their PK and Goaltending that is horrendous.



Fair, but it is worth noting that the Leafs were adjusting to Greg Cronin's PK style. When they got the hang of it in early January(lol) The Leafs had one of the highest PK's percentage wise in the League(from that point on).

Goaltending can't be argued at this point, it has just been average to below average, and that just isn't good enough.

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01-17-2013, 01:28 PM
  #697
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Bored...so:

To PHI: Kulikov

To Fla: Voracek, Meszaros, Luongo

To Van: Fleischmann, Petrovic, 2nd

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01-17-2013, 01:31 PM
  #698
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Bored...so:

To PHI: Kulikov

To Fla: Voracek, Meszaros, Luongo

To Van: Fleischmann, Petrovic, 2nd
No thanks. No interest in Fleischmann.

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01-17-2013, 01:32 PM
  #699
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Errr who else is left at Leafs camp?

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
Van Reimsdyk-Grabovski- Kadri
MacCarthur-McClement-Kulemin
Komarov-Steckel-Brown

? Am I missing people?
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Kadri is playing #3C for TML. Not #3RW.
Not sure of the decision on position, but yep, that is pretty much it.

And Carlyle is going to get these guys to play a defensive system?

I no longer think that Lou could even get these guys into the playoffs.

TML fans are going to have their eyes opened and it will not be pretty.

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01-17-2013, 01:34 PM
  #700
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No thanks. No interest in Fleischmann.
Agreed. Don't like Fleischmann or his contract.

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