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Does Manning have the biggest drop off in the playoffs than any other all-time great?

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01-15-2013, 04:38 PM
  #1
Big Phil
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Does Manning have the biggest drop off in the playoffs than any other all-time great?

Alright, I was really hoping Peyton would have won another Super Bowl this year and kind of put the exclamation point on his career. However, he didn't and with his 9-11 postseason career it is getting harder and harder to ever think he can become the greatest QB ever. For the longest time I resisted the urge to put Brady ahead of him and while some on here would still do that I believe they are as close as they ever have been.

Granted, John Fox made some horrible calls in the game over the weekend. I can never understand for the life of me why a coach goes into halftime holding the ball with two timeouts left and does not attempt to make a play or two at least in field goal range. Fox did this at the end of the game too which didn't make a lick of sense and makes him look even worse considering Atlanta literally won their game in the same situation (30 seconds left, deep in their own zone, timeouts left). But either way, Manning has a less than stellar postseason record. It is almost coming to th point where he appears to be a different player in the postseason than the surgeon that he usually is in the regular season. He has his 1 Super Bowl and he reached another one only to lose to the Saints. So he has moderate success, but I am wondering if the discrepancy he has is bigger than any other all-time great - in any sport.

NFL:
Dan Marino - A lot like Manning in many ways. Great passer, great between the ears, etc. But like Manning he has a lot of vapour locks in the postseason almost as if we saw a different version of him when push came to shove. Marino lost some games he probably should have won and only reached one Super Bowl in which he got hammered by Montana and the Niners.

Brett Favre - I guess if there is anyone similar to Manning it might be Favre. Like Manning he's won a Super Bowl and been to another contest. However, like Manning,
you always associate him with someone who should have won more than once. Not to mention some lousy performances at critical times and even some times that you can literally say cost the team the win (NFC championship game against the Saints in 2009). Favre was erratic in the postseason, just like Manning.

NBA:
Karl Malone - Well when you have a player like Karl Malone you always assume he comes with championships. But he didn't. Malone never looked good going against Jordan and the nickname "The Mailman" is something I never understood since Malone wasn't the greatest playoff performer, especially for a player of his caliber

NHL:
Marcel Dionne - He's the best guy I can think of in this situation. No Cups, never even won a 7 game playoff round. Manning was better in the regular season and postseason by a large margin though. I just can't think of another player even close. Joe Thornton? Even Bobby Hull who is a player on hockey's top 10 that has a worse resume than most of the others is still a guy with a great playoff portfolio. You also never blamed him for the Hawks losing.

MLB:
Ted Williams - Played in only one World Series and was lousy in it. Back in Williams' day all there was would be a World Series between the penant winners so you either won your league outright in the regular season or you didn't play in the World Series.

Barry Bonds - He redeemed himself a bit in 2002 with a fine World Series (in a losing cause) but Bonds was always dogged by criticisms that he was a poor postseason performer dating back to his Pirate days. For a player a few would say is the best of all-time he was not a winner in the postseason at all

Alex Rodriguez - Although he won in 2009 and was a big part of it the one thing any critic of A-Rod could take solace in was the fact that he was religiously a bust in the postseason. With the numbers he put up in the regular season it was almost laughable what he did in the postseason.


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01-15-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
NBA:
Karl Malone - Well when you have a player like Karl Malone you always assume he comes with championships. But he didn't. Malone never looked good going against Jordan and the nickname "The Mailman" is something I never understood since Malone wasn't the greatest playoff performer, especially for a player of his caliber.
Malone wasn't a poor playoff performer. He has plenty of big playoffs only for Jazz to fall short and in games with Bulls he went against the biggest pest and a top notch shutdown defensive player of his era



And really Stockton/Malone shouldn't be looked down upon for losing in back to back finals to one of the greatest teams in NBA history

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01-15-2013, 05:02 PM
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If you consider Joe Thornton a bad playoff performer, you haven't watched hockey in the last 8 years. The guy has been the best player on his team every year.

Teams losing in sports aren't always about a single individual failing. The guys on the other side are the best of the best who want to win, too.

Marino, Bonds and Favre were all good in the playoffs, as well.

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01-15-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
If you consider Joe Thornton a bad playoff performer, you haven't watched hockey in the last 8 years. The guy has been the best player on his team every year.

Teams losing in sports aren't always about a single individual failing. The guys on the other side are the best of the best who want to win, too.

Marino, Bonds and Favre were all good in the playoffs, as well.
After the SB win ,, Favre had some big stinkers and chokes

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01-15-2013, 05:35 PM
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Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
If you consider Joe Thornton a bad playoff performer, you haven't watched hockey in the last 8 years. The guy has been the best player on his team every year.

Teams losing in sports aren't always about a single individual failing. The guys on the other side are the best of the best who want to win, too.

Marino, Bonds and Favre were all good in the playoffs, as well.
Well, you have to ask yourself the question, how can a guy who won three MVPs in a row and one Super Bowl NOT be unanimously a top 5 QB of all-time? The reason is because of Favre's playoff failures and the times when he didn't look good in the first place while doing it. He isn't a guy that you totally felt comfortable with in a pressure situation. He still threw the ball erratic in the same situation. Manning for some reason is like a surgeon in the regular season and then for some reason is prone to gaffes in the postseason. These guys are great playoff performers if you are comparing them with Trent Dilfer, but we aren't. We are comparing them with their peers on all-time great lists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Malone wasn't a poor playoff performer. He has plenty of big playoffs only for Jazz to fall short and in games with Bulls he went against the biggest pest and a top notch shutdown defensive player of his era



And really Stockton/Malone shouldn't be looked down upon for losing in back to back finals to one of the greatest teams in NBA history
I had to pick someone in the NBA and Malone is a player who fits the bill the best. Manning isn't a "poor" playoff performer either but in comparison to his regular season success he tends to be which is what this thread is about and something that fits Malone closely as well.

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01-15-2013, 06:04 PM
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I think it was true earlier in his career but in recent years I don't think so. He's had some bad picks(pick 6 in the SB and the most recent pick in OT) but I can't remember the last overall bad game he's had in the playoffs like the one he had against NE in the snow(maybe that was the last one?). His W-L record isn't that great but I've never felt QB's should be judged on that.

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01-15-2013, 10:43 PM
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Kyle McMahon
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Manning hasn't had many bad playoff games, he's just lost a whole bunch in which he was pretty predestrian by his standards. Joe Thornton is a pretty good comparison. Not the reason the Sharks have lost, but hasn't ever carried them to victory either, like you would expect a player of his caliber to do at some point.

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01-15-2013, 10:55 PM
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Peyton was let down by his team quite a few times but I think if there is one flaw to his game it's that when things break down around him, he isn't going to be the guy who puts it back together, but rather the mistakes of others start to creep into his play as well.

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01-16-2013, 12:35 AM
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There should be two categories, Guys who have won one and guys who haven't.

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01-16-2013, 03:11 AM
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Manning hasn't actually played on many good teams though, that's what people seem to forget. Plus he played pretty much all of his career in a dome, which is a huge disadvantage. Those Colts teams were basically 1 player teams, with no defence. I've never seen receivers drop so many balls as those Colts teams. We all saw how well the Colts did when they lost Manning, and its not a stretch to think Manning was turning 5 or 6 win teams into 13 and 14 win teams.

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01-16-2013, 07:38 AM
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Karl Malone would have won twice if Jordan never un-retired

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01-16-2013, 07:45 AM
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I rank Manning and Favre as high as Drew Bledsoe and Tony Romo when it comes to clutch play.

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01-16-2013, 11:10 AM
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Peyton apologists are hilarious. Even when they admit defeat they really don't. That game is entirely on Peyton manning, don't even try to put this on John Fox. Peyton has full controls of the offense. Several times on 3 and long he aduibled to runs. Guy was playing scared like he always does. Brady surpassed him long ago as the better QB. Just going by stats Brady is better then you throw in the monumental playoff differences and its not even close. Dudes got something like 8 one and dones and like 4 of them were coming off byes. Even the year he won the superbowl he wasnt good in the playoffs. 11 int. 7 tds. They rushed for 200 yards in the superbowl and the defense had 5 turnovers.

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01-16-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Manning hasn't had many bad playoff games, he's just lost a whole bunch in which he was pretty predestrian by his standards. Joe Thornton is a pretty good comparison. Not the reason the Sharks have lost, but hasn't ever carried them to victory either, like you would expect a player of his caliber to do at some point.
Thornton has great numbers in clinching games and game 7's with the Sharks.

Looking at the team on your avatar, which one player "carried" tehm to victory? No one. That was a complete and total team effort. Dustin *** Penner was scoring clutch goals and the rest of the team had great secondary scoring, something SJ has never gotten in Thornton's years in SJ.

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01-16-2013, 03:33 PM
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Warren Moon is another one but most of the time the defense has failed to close out the games

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01-16-2013, 03:47 PM
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As a Broncos fan, yes. I don't think it's disputable as this point in time.

We'll see what happens over the next couple years though.

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01-16-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Karl Malone would have won twice if Jordan never un-retired
It is quite something how many finals contenders Malone met in just his Utah days. Lakers, Portland, Houston, Seattle, Chicago (those last 3 being in 5 years). It's like he always ran into someone who was more experienced.

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01-16-2013, 06:45 PM
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Those Jazz teams had holes outside of Malone and Stockton

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01-16-2013, 06:50 PM
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Those Jazz teams had holes outside of Malone and Stockton
Like the center position, esp in the playoffs?

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01-16-2013, 09:03 PM
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Peyton apologists are hilarious. Even when they admit defeat they really don't. That game is entirely on Peyton manning, don't even try to put this on John Fox. Peyton has full controls of the offense. Several times on 3 and long he aduibled to runs. Guy was playing scared like he always does. Brady surpassed him long ago as the better QB. Just going by stats Brady is better then you throw in the monumental playoff differences and its not even close. Dudes got something like 8 one and dones and like 4 of them were coming off byes. Even the year he won the superbowl he wasnt good in the playoffs. 11 int. 7 tds. They rushed for 200 yards in the superbowl and the defense had 5 turnovers.
How can you say that game is "entirely on Peyton Manning?" If Rahim Moore makes a very basic defensive play on Baltimore's hail mary, then the Broncos win in regulation and nobody remembers Manning's tipped pick-six, or checkdown to Hester, or kneel to end the half.

By the way, I suggest you actually compare Manning and Brady's stats (postseason included) before you declare one to be "not even close" to the other.

I don't even like Manning, but this kind of unhinged criticism drives me crazy.

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01-16-2013, 10:56 PM
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Like the center position, esp in the playoffs?
Yeah Greg Ostertag. there were other holes too, like the entire team besides the Hornacek, regionally sensical nickname...

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01-16-2013, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
It is quite something how many finals contenders Malone met in just his Utah days. Lakers, Portland, Houston, Seattle, Chicago (those last 3 being in 5 years). It's like he always ran into someone who was more experienced.
Outside of a 5-game series they lost to an 7th seeded Kings team, they usually got beat by great teams.

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01-16-2013, 11:36 PM
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The thing with Manning in the playoffs is he has never been able to raise his game to another level, something that all-time greats are able to do. I don't doubt that he is a better talent than Eli, but we've seen Eli raise his game to a whole new level on two occasions now, something Peyton has never done.

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01-17-2013, 12:34 AM
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The thing with Manning in the playoffs is he has never been able to raise his game to another level, something that all-time greats are able to do. I don't doubt that he is a better talent than Eli, but we've seen Eli raise his game to a whole new level on two occasions now, something Peyton has never done.
That's not entirely true. As Patriot fans, you and I are better placed than everybody to know that Manning DID elevate his game ONCE in the playoffs. Second half, 2006 AFC Champhionship. Manning beat us in that half and he did it in "all-time-great" fashion. He sucked in the SB, but he was UNREAL during that half. Might be the only highlight of his playoff career, but he does have that moment and he has it against another all-time great.

I have Brady above Manning, but Manning did elevate his game once... against Brady. That has to count for something.

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01-17-2013, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
That's not entirely true. As Patriot fans, you and I are better placed than everybody to know that Manning DID elevate his game ONCE in the playoffs. Second half, 2006 AFC Champhionship. Manning beat us in that half and he did it in "all-time-great" fashion. He sucked in the SB, but he was UNREAL during that half. Might be the only highlight of his playoff career, but he does have that moment and he has it against another all-time great.

I have Brady above Manning, but Manning did elevate his game once... against Brady. That has to count for something.
I refuse to acknowledge anything other than the fact that Reche Caldwell sucks.

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