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McKenzie: Leafs looking at Bernier

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Old
01-15-2013, 08:18 PM
  #76
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By the sounds of it Reimer's glove hand is questionable again at camp,
Link?

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01-15-2013, 08:19 PM
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Link?
Toronto Star.

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01-15-2013, 08:19 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
I like Bernier - guy has a great pedigree and has won everywhere he's been.

You don't give up too much for him -

MacA
Colborne
2nd
That's too much unless a guy like Loktionov is coming back.

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01-15-2013, 08:20 PM
  #79
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They did just lose mitchell

Mac and holzer?

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01-15-2013, 08:21 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Not willing to throw a guy like Mac at them???

Mac is redundant here, and you have to give to get...
Sure, but not in that deal. I'd rather move him in another deal, not trade one of the teams few 20g scorers + for unproven asset. I'm not even a huge MacArthur fan myself.

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01-15-2013, 08:23 PM
  #81
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scrivens is almost worthless, i would compare his value to being just a throw in. Even though his play suggests he's better.


Kulemin might be someone LA would want
Why is he worthless, and Ben Bishop is worth a top-60 pick?

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01-15-2013, 08:24 PM
  #82
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That's too much unless a guy like Loktionov is coming back.
LOL I don't think so.

That's probably enough to get LA's attention for dealing Bernier...not counting the top prospect you think should be included.

29 other teams would top that.

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01-15-2013, 08:25 PM
  #83
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And how people are saying this guy has franchise goalie potential? How do people jump to that conclusion? Because he was a first round pick?

I look at Tuuka Rask's first real NHL season and see franchise goalie potential. What Cory Schneider has done over the last couple seasons. Those are potential franchise goalies.

Bernier has literally shown NOTHING to suggest he's going to be a go-to guy. He couldn't even dominate in the second division german league during this lockout.

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01-15-2013, 08:25 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by John-Eric Iannicello View Post
Sure, but not in that deal. I'd rather move him in another deal, not trade one of the teams few 20g scorers + for unproven asset. I'm not even a huge MacArthur fan myself.
Thing is though we lose nothing by letting him go. After watching Frattin with Grabo for a spell I think he could slot in there just fine. We need to make some room for the kids, this Lombo, Connolly, Mac thing is getting old fast. Are we rebuilding or not, these kids have nothing more to learn in the AHL, and in some ways offer an upgrade.

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01-15-2013, 08:25 PM
  #85
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Why is he worthless, and Ben Bishop is worth a top-60 pick?
Because Ottawa got ripped in that deal.

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01-15-2013, 08:25 PM
  #86
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Not willing to throw a guy like Mac at them???

Mac is redundant here, and you have to give to get...
No better chip than MacA at the moment. 50 - 60 PT 20 goal man who has no home in our top 6 (JVR, Kessel, Lupul, Kulemin), is too expensive for our 3rd line and holds up places for guys like Frattin and Kadri.

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01-15-2013, 08:26 PM
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And how people are saying this guy has franchise goalie potential? How do people jump to that conclusion? Because he was a first round pick?

I look at Tuuka Rask's first real NHL season and see franchise goalie potential. What Cory Schneider has done over the last couple seasons. Those are potential franchise goalies.

Bernier has literally shown NOTHING to suggest he's going to be a go-to guy. He couldn't even dominate in the second division germany league during this lockout.
But that's what you're paying for....potential.

That's all it is.

If it were anything more, we wouldn't be floating Macarthurs name as the main piece in a deal.


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01-15-2013, 08:27 PM
  #88
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LOL I don't think so.

That's probably enough to get LA's attention for dealing Bernier...not counting the top prospect you think should be included.

29 other teams would top that.
Good for you and good for them. Keep him.

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01-15-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
No better chip than MacA at the moment. 50 - 60 PT 20 goal man who has no home in our top 6 (JVR, Kessel, Lupul, Kulemin), is too expensive for our 3rd line and holds up places for guys like Frattin and Kadri.
That's exactly it.

It really depends. I'm hesitant on Mac in this deal for only one reason, and that's if his play is solid this year, he could garner a 1st at the deadline, and that's a pick that would be extremely valuable, even if it's middle-late round. Would be nice if we could get that kind of return, and take a guy like Fucale to groom ourselves.

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01-15-2013, 08:29 PM
  #90
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Good for you and good for them. Keep him.
Not saying they will but two great young talents for a last placed team's garbage isn't what GM's are looking for

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01-15-2013, 08:32 PM
  #91
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Thing is though we lose nothing by letting him go. After watching Frattin with Grabo for a spell I think he could slot in there just fine. We need to make some room for the kids, this Lombo, Connolly, Mac thing is getting old fast. Are we rebuilding or not, these kids have nothing more to learn in the AHL, and in some ways offer an upgrade.
We lose a 50pt guy by letting him go. Sure, Frattin 'could' slot in there fine, but there's no guarantee. We at least know what MacArthur can do (for better or worse - again I'm not a huge fan of his).

I'm not saying don't trade MacArthur, I'm just not sure I'd be so willing to throw an established scorer on this team for an unknown. I'm just hesitant to throw him away in this type of deal. But, it depends on what else is involved I guess. At the end of the day I'm just not sold on him being a legit starter for this team.

And letting the kids play should be at the expense of other players way before MacArthur.

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01-15-2013, 08:33 PM
  #92
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Not saying they will but two great young talents for a last placed team's garbage isn't what GM's are looking for
Can we lay off the insults? Hockey is still just a game.

Last placed team's "garbage" is a human being, not some empty soda can.

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01-15-2013, 08:34 PM
  #93
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LOL I don't think so.

That's probably enough to get LA's attention for dealing Bernier...not counting the top prospect you think should be included.

29 other teams would top that.
No they wouldn't.

First of all LA can't top Toronto's offer since they own Bernier...so that leaves 28 other teams.

Secondly there are many teams that simply don't need Bernier. Teams like Tampa and Columbus who already went with other options (Lindback/Bobrovksy). Teams like Washington who already have young goaltenders. Teams like Colorado who have a young goalie for the future and an older mentor. Teams like Pittsburgh that have their consistent starter and a veteran backup. Teams like Vancouver who are looking to trade their goalies. Teams like St Louis with platooning starters. Teams like Dallas with a starter like Lehtonen that's already talented, and a future developing starter. That takes away a huge chunk of those remaining 28 teams.

And then there will be teams that just don't have the resources to take a risk on Bernier or don't want to spend a high price on any goalie. That further cuts into that 28 number.

Goaltending is not a huge market right now. I very much many, if any other teams, would top an offer like that for Bernier.

Think about it, who actually needs goaltending right now...

Chicago, maybe Philly, New Jersey if they expect Brodeur to retire shortly and that's pretty much it.

So maybe 4 teams...

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01-15-2013, 08:35 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
That's exactly it.

It really depends. I'm hesitant on Mac in this deal for only one reason, and that's if his play is solid this year, he could garner a 1st at the deadline, and that's a pick that would be extremely valuable, even if it's middle-late round. Would be nice if we could get that kind of return, and take a guy like Fucale to groom ourselves.
That's my line of thinking. Then again, I'm more in the line of blow the team up in general given the amount of FA's there likely will be and the deep 2013 draft. Doesn't seem like Leafs management is along that line of thinking though.

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01-15-2013, 08:36 PM
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We lose a 50pt guy by letting him go. Sure, Frattin 'could' slot in there fine, but there's no guarantee. We at least know what MacArthur can do (for better or worse - again I'm not a huge fan of his).

I'm not saying don't trade MacArthur, I'm just not sure I'd be so willing to throw an established scorer on this team for an unknown. I'm just hesitant to throw him away in this type of deal. But, it depends on what else is involved I guess. At the end of the day I'm just not sold on him being a legit starter for this team.

And letting the kids play should be at the expense of other players way before MacArthur.
Except we've already seen Frattin with that line and it didn't miss a beat. If you do the what if hesitation no prospect ever gets a chance. A smallish winger on a small team, I like Mac but he is expendable on this team, give the kids some room.

I have little faith in Reimer and you'll never convince me that someone with a glove stance like Scrivens is starting NHL goalie material. Two backups that's what we have, and management knows it.

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01-15-2013, 08:36 PM
  #96
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I would much, MUCH prefer a deal for Bernier over Luongo. A tandem of Reimer and Bernier competing for the number one would make for some great goaltending. Scrivens+Mac+3rd?

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01-15-2013, 08:37 PM
  #97
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I would much, MUCH prefer a deal for Bernier over Luongo. A tandem of Reimer and Bernier competing for the number one would make for some great goaltending. Scrivens+Mac+3rd?
Scrivens + Mac for Bernier and a 3rd

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01-15-2013, 08:39 PM
  #98
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Why is everyone overpaying in these trade proposals for Bernier? The guy is unproven, and will go for someone like Mac and Bernier+ a pick coming back is fair.

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01-15-2013, 08:39 PM
  #99
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Not saying they will but two great young talents for a last placed team's garbage isn't what GM's are looking for
Ah yes, everyone else's players are "top prospects" and ours are garbage schtick.

Colborne 22 yrs old 1st round 7.5 C

NHL 6 PTS 11 GP
AHL 116 PTS 185 GP

Loktionov 22 yrs old 5th round 7.5 C

NHL 14 PTS 59 GP
AHL 94 PTS 123 GP

Bernier with stats very close to Reimer's since being drafted versus a proven 50 - 60 PT actual NHLer.

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01-15-2013, 08:40 PM
  #100
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No they wouldn't.

First of all LA can't top Toronto's offer since they own Bernier...so that leaves 28 other teams.

Secondly there are many teams that simply don't need Bernier. Teams like Tampa and Columbus who already went with other options (Lindback/Bobrovksy). Teams like Washington who already have young goaltenders. Teams like Colorado who have a young goalie for the future and an older mentor. Teams like Pittsburgh that have their consistent starter and a veteran backup. Teams like Vancouver who are looking to trade their goalies. Teams like St Louis with platooning starters. Teams like Dallas with a starter like Lehtonen that's already talented, and a future developing starter. That takes away a huge chunk of those remaining 28 teams.

And then there will be teams that just don't have the resources to take a risk on Bernier or don't want to spend a high price on any goalie. That further cuts into that 28 number.

Goaltending is not a huge market right now. I very much many, if any other teams, would top an offer like that for Bernier.

Think about it, who actually needs goaltending right now...

Chicago, maybe Philly, New Jersey if they expect Brodeur to retire shortly and that's pretty much it.

So maybe 4 teams...
I'd say Edmonton, Columbus, Dallas, Tampa, Calgary, Chicago, New Jersey, Toronto, Islanders would all like to have a potential number one.

So no.

Clarke Macarthur will not do.

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