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Phoenix LXVIII - "Watch out for that Tree"

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Old
01-21-2013, 07:11 PM
  #526
ajmidd12
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Originally Posted by AZCOYOT View Post
Ummmm, restaurants?? I'll give you one thing. No Coyotes, I would almost NEVER go to Westgate from Mesa.
Seriously, that horse has been beaten over and over. The Job is in a bad location, plain and simple. If you and everyone else is worried about the restaurants, how about giving them the AMF in lieu of paying for a team that doesn't turn a profit?

FWIW I don't go to restaurants around our rink only to eat at the game. Most people don't spend at the restaurant and then at the game, its one or the other.

Plus people don't normally go shopping at a shopping mall prior to going to a hockey game either, so that argument is out.

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01-21-2013, 07:20 PM
  #527
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Its really quite the paradox. Despite themselves, the league has been, is & will be tremendously successful. Really, the only loss per se' from a strictly here & now perspective, dollars & common sense is as Stix&Stones states...



... which is precisely the point. Once youve' been forced into a retreat & relocation, that market's off the charts & off the radar in terms of realizing and receiving unencumbered Expansion Fee's forever. In relocating the Thrashers to Winnipeg, the league received $60M (app $2.2M X's 29 Teams) however, had they instead awarded TNSE an Expansion Franchise, they probably couldve received as much as $250M free & clear.
Yeah, that line of thinking resulted in the overexpansion of the '90s that long-term screwed the league over and in part resulted in an 18-month-long lockout. Otherwise, if the NHL wants owning a team to be a worthwhile financial endeavor, they need to stop relying on expansion fees, because at 30 teams they're pretty near their limit where they can never expand further and the more teams you create, the smaller the share of pie from central revenues each team gets meaning the more bottom-end franchises are even worse off, and it also removes the prospect of threatening to move to another market if there's no other city with an arena (compare the Sacramento Kings today to the Phoenix Coyotes)

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01-21-2013, 07:39 PM
  #528
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I said it was ethically questionable, not horribly unethical. She accepted a gift from a fan less than a week after leaving office. The optics are not pristine.
Not even close. We are talking about tickets to a hockey game after her term is up. No conflict, not even close to unethical, optics are fine except for a few here on HFBoards who want to find a smoking gun.

In a nutshell, she received a gift as a private citizen. Nothing more nothing less.

If you can show me any conflict of interest act from Arizona she has broken, I will amend my comment.

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01-21-2013, 07:45 PM
  #529
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Hey, if you want to defend a former councilwoman who was/is a proponent of subsidizing an unpopular sports team in a city that is on the brink of not being able to stand on it's own two feet financially, yet takes freebies to Yotes and STILL wants people to take her seriously, then by all means go right ahead. But IMO, it doesn't provide much backbone to your stance on the matter.
Personally, I think she is a few cards short of a deck. She pushed through an agreement that is not in the best interests of the COG.

That does not change the fact that she is a former councilor and she can receive free tickets if she wants. If that makes you not want to take here seriously, well I say you did not take her seriously before anyways.

Let go of the feigned outrage it is unbecoming.

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01-21-2013, 07:55 PM
  #530
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Would you have found her receipt of free tickets to a Coyotes game somewhat tainted prior to her departure from city council?
I guess you would have to look at the conflict of interest rules for the COG; however, I doubt the tickets were given to her until after the vote last month so you question is mute. I also suspect that a couple hundred dollars of yotes tickets would be the straw that caused Clark to vote for the lease.

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My objection is that Clark has been publicly calling for the current council to make the cuts to staff and budgets ASAP. Several million dollars of those cuts are directly attributable to the deal with Jamison that she and three other council members rammed through on the eve of her departure.
Yes, I agree it was dumb, dumber, and dumbest pushing it through. bad for the COG. however, it has nothing to do with the tickets.

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She should have told the generous STH "Thanks for the offer of tickets, but I would prefer to pay for my own tickets. It's the least that I can do to show my personal support for the Coyotes and their future. After all, we all have to do our part to keep the Coyotes in Glendale. Why don't you give those tickets to some young folks that might become part of the Coyotes' future fan base?"
Why? Maybe these tickets were better seats then she could get for the game? Someone offered her free tickets and she accepted. Nothing more nothing less. There is nothing to see here. I am surprised you bought into this Whilee.

Look I am not saying that Clark is a wonderful person at all and that she should be commended for work to save the Yotes. I am saying this smoking gun is empty and the three of you would be best to let it go.

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01-21-2013, 07:57 PM
  #531
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For clarification, would someone be so kind as to let me know if the following statement is correct, so far as anybody knows...

Quote:
The Coyotes will be playing in Glendale for the 2012-2013 season, and the city of Glendale has not committed any financial resources in the form of direct payments to the team owner to help defray the costs for this (partial) season.

 
Old
01-21-2013, 08:01 PM
  #532
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For clarification, would someone be so kind as to let me know if the following statement is correct, so far as anybody knows...
My understanding is that if JIG does not buy the team before the end of the month (assuming the COG does not extend the deadline), then the COG is not required to pay any additional amounts to the NHL under the current lease agreement the NHL has with the COG. However, if JUG does buy the team the COG would be on the hook for paying the arena management fee.

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01-21-2013, 08:04 PM
  #533
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I firmly disagree with the notion that anything that happens in Glendale will have any impact on other municipalities investing in arenas for NHL teams.
I have to disagree with that seeing as they only have two serious considerations for moving this team to, and both of them are in Canada. Their best American bet is probably Seattle which has no ownership group and no arena.

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01-21-2013, 08:07 PM
  #534
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For clarification, would someone be so kind as to let me know if the following statement is correct, so far as anybody knows...
That seems accurate. However, they'll give a huge 17 million $ payout to Jamison if he buys the team. Which would pretty much be the same.

So the question is what in the world is the NHL going to do if Jamison isn't able to close the sale in the next 10 days? Especially if the new Glendale council then crushes all hope of a future ''sweet deal'' with Jamison.

What then? Do they try to keep the illusion that someone'll still buy the team? Do they sell the team to PKP right away in exchange for him taking care of the lasses and have the team play a lame duck season like happened in Winnipeg?

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01-21-2013, 08:14 PM
  #535
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Wait-a-minute, Dado is a moderator? Hell hath frozen over!

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01-21-2013, 08:26 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
It's going to take about 0:02 for someone to request that information, no? The number of requests, between media and fans, for that info on Feb 1 is likely to be in the dozens, yes?

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" might not work out on this...
With all that has transpired , it would seem logical that the,"don`t ask don`t tell or hide the nut," would prevail between the COG, NHL and GJ. Extensions and obfuscations would reach new heights as the parties struggle to keep the secret and ill founded hope alive. But honestly, this charade has a shelf life that expired awhile ago and the contents are beginning to smell! Someone leaks the fraud and then the story turns into a preconceived deception on the fans by keeping them in the dark w/o adequate disclosure. Two things happen the longer the secret drags on (1) the risk of discovery and potential class action lawsuits by disgruntled fans (2) the time frame for relocation, with the late season begins to crowd the ability of a new city to assimilate a new team in time. Best option for the new Mayor, get the real truth put it out there and let the fans decide whether or not they want to continue to support the lame duck team!

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01-21-2013, 08:29 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Wait-a-minute, Dado is a moderator? Hell hath frozen over!
Yep.

Pinky didn't work out, so they hired The Brain.



Thanks for the answers, all. I'm not even going to bother asking how hard a deadline we're facing in 10 days, lol.

 
Old
01-21-2013, 08:36 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
FWIW I don't go to restaurants around our rink only to eat at the game. Most people don't spend at the restaurant and then at the game, its one or the other.
Wait time was hour and a half + at every place at Westgate yesterday. Walked over to Gordon Biersch to finally get a table and food in time to make the 8PM drop. Are you going to tell me that the majority of the people in these restaurants, wearing hockey gear, are there by coincidence? Are we saying that Westgate doesn't do better on game day? Because that's just stupid, and we have tenants that explicitly state that they make more when the Coyotes are playing.

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01-21-2013, 08:41 PM
  #539
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Wait time was hour and a half + at every place at Westgate yesterday. Walked over to Gordon Biersch to finally get a table and food in time to make the 8PM drop. Are you going to tell me that the majority of the people in these restaurants, wearing hockey gear, are there by coincidence? Are we saying that Westgate doesn't do better on game day? Because that's just stupid, and we have tenants that explicitly state that they make more when the Coyotes are playing.
Should've started at Gordon Biersch. Gotta get of few of those high booze content Czech Pilsners in you before puck drop. They also work a grill and a fryer quite well, there.

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Old
01-21-2013, 09:04 PM
  #540
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I still do not get your point? So she was given a ticket(s) from someone who likely could not attend the game. That is hardly proof that she is not willing to spend her own money on the Yotes product.

I agree she is not the smartest fish in the pond; however, this attack is unwarranted.

You do know what the word hypocrite means, Joyce Clarke epitomizes the word to a tee.

Seems to me the NHL realizes that no other market will ever offer up the golden ticket that the COG is offering, the fly in the ointment was picking gramps Jamison as the potential suitor.

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01-21-2013, 09:31 PM
  #541
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Wait-a-minute, Dado is a moderator? Hell hath frozen over!
Once Killion got it standards went out the window.

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01-21-2013, 09:37 PM
  #542
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Once Killion got it standards went out the window.
True true. This place will never be the same.

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01-21-2013, 09:42 PM
  #543
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I'm not at all bitter, but I do find the ethical positioning on this reprehensible. You do realize that people will lose their jobs because of the Coyotes' subsidy, don't you?

I have a problem with a politician putting civic workers out of work for a sports team and then not paying for her own tickets to the game. She fought for the team using other people's money, and some families are going to pay dearly for that. Since the vote, she has actually publicly urged the current city council to move faster on the "necessary" cuts. Not very nice. Glad she enjoyed the game, though.
Don't get me wrong Whileee... but everyone has become just a bit too obsessed with Joyce Clark. In case you have forgotten she is no longer a city council member. She never went looking for ticket donations. They were given to her by people who helped with or supported her campaign.

People have also conveniently forgot she was against the $100M parking band plan that Elaine Scruggs pimped to the city for Hulsizer, no?? She was also not crazy about the second $25M "insurance policy" for last season, but ended up voting in favor of it to keep the team there.

That fact that everyone continues to bastardize any thing she makes or completely ignore things that fly against the portrait everyone paints is somewhat disturbing. BUT......... don't let that get in the way of the mockery.


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01-21-2013, 09:45 PM
  #544
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You do know what the word hypocrite means, Joyce Clarke epitomizes the word to a tee.
Sip..... you can go back through these threads and find a plethora of examples of hypocrisy generated right on this board.

This is one big glass house loaded full of rocks.

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01-21-2013, 09:59 PM
  #545
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BUT......... don't let that get in the way of the mockery.

Don't worry. We won't.

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01-21-2013, 10:04 PM
  #546
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Don't get me wrong Whileee... but everyone has become just a bit too obsessed with Joyce Clark. In case you have forgotten she is no longer a city council member. She never went looking for ticket donations. They were given to her by people who helped with or supported her campaign.

People have also conveniently forgot she was against the $100M parking band plan that Elaine Scruggs pimped to the city for Hulsizer, no?? She was also not crazy about the second $25M "insurance policy" for last season, but ended up voting in favor of it to keep the team there.

That fact that everyone continues to bastardize any thing she makes or completely ignore things that fly against the portrait everyone paints is somewhat disturbing. BUT......... don't let that get in the way of the mockery.

Are you suggesting...GASP...that you support her?! We can no longer be friends.... EVER!


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01-21-2013, 10:05 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
For clarification, would someone be so kind as to let me know if the following statement is correct, so far as anybody knows...

Quote:
The Coyotes will be playing in Glendale for the 2012-2013 season, and the city of Glendale has not committed any financial resources in the form of direct payments to the team owner to help defray the costs for this (partial) season.

Dado as far as I know.....

NHL never charged the CoG for any of the 30-day extensions they agreed to.

CoG originally budgeted $25M as a place-marker for the arena (whether they had a hockey team there or not). Whatever that evolved into I don't know.

If the AMF falls through I'm not sure where it goes from there. But one of our resident gurus who's read the budget docs might know.

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01-21-2013, 10:11 PM
  #548
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Are you suggesting...GASP...that you support her?! We can no longer be friends.... EVER!
Depend on what you consider support??

I supported her for fighting for her district (which included Westgate). I did not support the "Hispanic" item in her campaign literature.

Likewise, I support Quebec City getting an NHL team in the near future. But I don't support it being mine [even though I can live with it if it happened].

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01-21-2013, 10:24 PM
  #549
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Yep. Pinky didn't work out, so they hired The Brain.
You be careful over there on the Canucks Board Dado,
a small percentage dont take kindly to authority figures....



...ya, nice outfit a-hole, really diggin the hightops & haircut.

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Once Killion got it standards went out the window.
Damn straight, out the window and into the stratospheres of happiness and heavenly bliss for one & all.... Im proud to say the only complaints received while performing my duties were all from fellow Moderators & Administrators.

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True true. This place will never be the same.
Oh dont worry, Im still here, la revolucion, it lives on. Just taken it to a whole new level.

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01-21-2013, 10:49 PM
  #550
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I have to disagree with that seeing as they only have two serious considerations for moving this team to, and both of them are in Canada. Their best American bet is probably Seattle which has no ownership group and no arena.
Seattle will have a arena by start of 15-16 season

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