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Phoenix LXVIII - "Watch out for that Tree"

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01-23-2013, 07:22 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Its hard to extrapolate minor league draws to major league. Columbus and Atlanta did well in the minors. C-bus has had its issues and we all know Atlanta. Conversely the NHL didn't do very well in Minnesota and the Wild draw.

As far as Seattle goes if they have the same owners as the Sonics and you can do cross marketing and bundling of the corporate seats it should do fine. I still think 2-3 more teams should be in Canada before Seattle gets one.
Don Levin would be the likely owner of an NHL team in Seattle. Too bad he didn't want to own an NHL team in Arizona.

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01-23-2013, 07:35 PM
  #727
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wrong on both counts, aqib, Minnesota was relocated much the same way Sacramento has been since that franchise was founded, arena issues and age of the then Met Centre played a factor in the Stars transfer to Dallas....

Seattle's hockey and basketball teams will share the new arena, but Hansen has already been announced as the Kings new owner pending NBA Approval, Hansen has no interest in owning both an NBA/NHL Franchise and the arena itself, but it goes back to what NHL Franchise other than Phoenix IS SOLD, then relocated to Seattle.
Regarding Minnesota I was referring to the Moose. They didn't draw very well but the Wild does.

Regarding Seattle, if there isn't some common ownership I don't think it can work. The hockey team will need to be enjoined in arena revenue.

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01-23-2013, 07:38 PM
  #728
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Don Levin would be the likely owner of an NHL team in Seattle. Too bad he didn't want to own an NHL team in Arizona.
Does anyone?

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01-23-2013, 07:59 PM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Regarding Minnesota I was referring to the Moose. They didn't draw very well but the Wild does.

Regarding Seattle, if there isn't some common ownership I don't think it can work. The hockey team will need to be enjoined in arena revenue.
the Moose were going to be terminated out of the I, aqib, once the Wild were awarded the franchise that replaced the Stars after their relocation, hence had that occurred, I'm not sure that the St. John's Ice Caps, as the Moose are now known as, would even exist for TNSE to even buy the Thrashers.

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01-23-2013, 08:03 PM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Don Levin would be the likely owner of an NHL team in Seattle. Too bad he didn't want to own an NHL team in Arizona.
Levin, blues10, has also publically stated, that their are no franchises available as Phoenix is under contract subject to NHL BOG approval of GJ.

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01-23-2013, 08:10 PM
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Regarding Minnesota I was referring to the Moose. They didn't draw very well but the Wild does.

Regarding Seattle, if there isn't some common ownership I don't think it can work. The hockey team will need to be enjoined in arena revenue.
and it's been widely reported, in numerous threads, about Seattle, aqib, that Hansen, has stated since the Seattle arena was approved and/or announced, that he has no interest in owning an NHL franchise, it'll be a landlord/tenant...

remember, Levin and Hansen have also publically stated they've not discussed any agreement.

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01-23-2013, 08:13 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
the Moose were going to be terminated out of the I, aqib, once the Wild were awarded the franchise that replaced the Stars after their relocation, hence had that occurred, I'm not sure that the St. John's Ice Caps, as the Moose are now known as, would even exist for TNSE to even buy the Thrashers.
The Moose left after the 96 season. The Wild were not awarded until June of 97.

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01-23-2013, 08:16 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
and it's been widely reported, in numerous threads, about Seattle, aqib, that Hansen, has stated since the Seattle arena was approved and/or announced, that he has no interest in owning an NHL franchise, it'll be a landlord/tenant...

remember, Levin and Hansen have also publically stated they've not discussed any agreement.
Yes I have read this too. Just saying if the NHL owner (whoever it is) doesn't have an equity interest in the arena or the NBA team I don't see the numbers working.

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01-23-2013, 08:18 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
The Moose left after the 96 season. The Wild were not awarded until June of 97.
the Moose were bankrupt, even if they could've stayed in MN, aqib, GO research the Moose, and that's a fact....

XCEL replaced the Met Centre, so where would they have played? and the Met Centre became the Mall of America, didn't it

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01-23-2013, 08:36 PM
  #735
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Yes I have read this too. Just saying if the NHL owner (whoever it is) doesn't have an equity interest in the arena or the NBA team I don't see the numbers working.
Don Levin was asked just 2 days ago if he was still trying to acquire an NHL franchise for Seattle and flatly said "no". There was a parallel track with some wealthy investors in Bellevue to build a separate NHL specific arena in that suburb, but just last week, Levin was told it wouldnt be happening, not moving forward, dead. He further said that he hadnt had talks with Hansens' group for some time, and assumed that if they were interested in procuring a franchise that they were working with someone else, and he didnt know a thing about it.

The way Hansens arena deal is structured, its in no way mandatory nor even necessary that he procure an NHL team either directly or as a tenant, though another $80M in development funds does become available if he does. Unless Hansen partners up with whomever, or provides a sweetheart of a lease to an incoming team, cant see it happening anytime soon, and it certainly doesnt appear to be any kind of a high priority with his group. Just a nice afterthought. I suppose its possible Levins telling porkies to mask deeper goings on but I most sincerely doubt that. He said in the interview that he did indeed ask about the Coyotes but was told "nope, not available for relocation" so who knows? I could see Seattle getting a team via relo perhaps post 2015, but for now, seems highly unlikely.

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01-23-2013, 08:36 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
the Moose were bankrupt, even if they could've stayed in MN, aqib, GO research the Moose, and that's a fact....

XCEL replaced the Met Centre, so where would they have played? and the Met Centre became the Mall of America, didn't it
As a local who once worked at the arenas that housed the North Stars and Moose, I can help. The Moose played at the St. Paul Civic Center, former home of the WHA Minnesota Fighting Saints. That arena was leveled and the Xcel Center built on the same site when the Wild got a franchise in the NHL. The Moose played two years in St. Paul before being sold to the group in Winnipeg to begin there the season after the Jets left. By that time the Met Center, former home of the North Stars, had been demolished. Minnesota fans weren't interested enough in minor league hockey after having the North Stars, and with the NCAA hockey Gophers across town and high school and youth hockey all around. It didn't work so well here, but I'm glad the Moose turned out to be a stepping stone for Winnipeg to get the arena they needed to get their Jets back.

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01-23-2013, 09:01 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
As a local who once worked at the arenas that housed the North Stars and Moose, I can help. The Moose played at the St. Paul Civic Center, former home of the WHA Minnesota Fighting Saints. That arena was leveled and the Xcel Center built on the same site when the Wild got a franchise in the NHL. The Moose played two years in St. Paul before being sold to the group in Winnipeg to begin there the season after the Jets left. By that time the Met Center, former home of the North Stars, had been demolished. Minnesota fans weren't interested enough in minor league hockey after having the North Stars, and with the NCAA hockey Gophers across town and high school and youth hockey all around. It didn't work so well here, but I'm glad the Moose turned out to be a stepping stone for Winnipeg to get the arena they needed to get their Jets back.
Just to clarify did the Moose move before or after the Wild were awarded?

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01-23-2013, 09:01 PM
  #738
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Well it's puck drop time against CBJ. Any Jamison sightseeings tonight?

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01-23-2013, 09:03 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Don Levin was asked just 2 days ago if he was still trying to acquire an NHL franchise for Seattle and flatly said "no". There was a parallel track with some wealthy investors in Bellevue to build a separate NHL specific arena in that suburb, but just last week, Levin was told it wouldnt be happening, not moving forward, dead. He further said that he hadnt had talks with Hansens' group for some time, and assumed that if they were interested in procuring a franchise that they were working with someone else, and he didnt know a thing about it.

The way Hansens arena deal is structured, its in no way mandatory nor even necessary that he procure an NHL team either directly or as a tenant, though another $80M in development funds does become available if he does. Unless Hansen partners up with whomever, or provides a sweetheart of a lease to an incoming team, cant see it happening anytime soon, and it certainly doesnt appear to be any kind of a high priority with his group. Just a nice afterthought. I suppose its possible Levins telling porkies to mask deeper goings on but I most sincerely doubt that. He said in the interview that he did indeed ask about the Coyotes but was told "nope, not available for relocation" so who knows? I could see Seattle getting a team via relo perhaps post 2015, but for now, seems highly unlikely.
Its not mandatory its just a big benefit to have 82 dates in the arena as opposed to 41. Also, you can command more for naming rights, signage, etc if you have two teams versus one. Do the numbers work for just NBA? Sure. Do they work better for 2 teams absolutely.

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01-23-2013, 09:04 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
the Moose were bankrupt, even if they could've stayed in MN, aqib, GO research the Moose, and that's a fact....

XCEL replaced the Met Centre, so where would they have played? and the Met Centre became the Mall of America, didn't it
Mall of America is in Bloomington where the Metropolitan Stadium used to stand.

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01-23-2013, 09:12 PM
  #741
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A lot of empty seats in glendale tonight....I thought more people would show up after they went to the conference final last year

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01-23-2013, 09:13 PM
  #742
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Mall of America is in Bloomington where the Metropolitan Stadium used to stand.
That's true; the Met Center arena was across the parking lot to the north. That location became the source of one of Norm Green's (former North Stars owner) scams to enrich himself at the expense of the public. He had had a hand in shopping mall ownership or development in a previous life, so he asked for the land adjacent to the Mall of America, which he wanted to develop into an extension of the Mall connecting it to the arena. Dollars danced in his eyes, but the governments there had no interest in giving him freebies beyond the reasonable rent deal he enjoyed. They weren't going to do a Glendale with taxpayer dollars. Yeah, he left town, but things worked out pretty well for us in the end with the Wild and their new arena.

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01-23-2013, 09:16 PM
  #743
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Well it's puck drop time against CBJ. Any Jamison sightseeings tonight?
someone posted a pic of him at the game tonight on the coyotes board... butal attendance

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01-23-2013, 09:17 PM
  #744
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Don Levin was asked just 2 days ago if he was still trying to acquire an NHL franchise for Seattle and flatly said "no". There was a parallel track with some wealthy investors in Bellevue to build a separate NHL specific arena in that suburb, but just last week, Levin was told it wouldnt be happening, not moving forward, dead. He further said that he hadnt had talks with Hansens' group for some time, and assumed that if they were interested in procuring a franchise that they were working with someone else, and he didnt know a thing about it.

The way Hansens arena deal is structured, its in no way mandatory nor even necessary that he procure an NHL team either directly or as a tenant, though another $80M in development funds does become available if he does. Unless Hansen partners up with whomever, or provides a sweetheart of a lease to an incoming team, cant see it happening anytime soon, and it certainly doesnt appear to be any kind of a high priority with his group. Just a nice afterthought. I suppose its possible Levins telling porkies to mask deeper goings on but I most sincerely doubt that. He said in the interview that he did indeed ask about the Coyotes but was told "nope, not available for relocation" so who knows? I could see Seattle getting a team via relo perhaps post 2015, but for now, seems highly unlikely.
From that interview, we get the feeling that he his not in the game for now, and if the Coyotes become available, Québec City is the only ready to go alternative, with a temporary arena, a soon to be ready state of the art new arena and a wealthy ready to write a check at a moment's notice.

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01-23-2013, 09:17 PM
  #745
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A lot of empty seats in glendale tonight....I thought more people would show up after they went to the conference final last year
Really dissapointing if you are a Coyotes fan, or a player.

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01-23-2013, 09:21 PM
  #746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Just to clarify did the Moose move before or after the Wild were awarded?
the Moose were bought by TNSE after the transfer of the original Jets to Phoenix, aqib, IT was widely reported that the club was 2 steps from termination had Chipman not bought them, and the IHL was willing to go through w/ that.... that has nothing to do w/ the Wild being awarded a franchise, nor does that have anything to do w/ the Coyotes current status, remember too, Winnipeg Arena remained standing when the Moose arrived in MTB, Chipman officially bought them in 2003, as part of TNSE.

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01-23-2013, 09:24 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
As a local who once worked at the arenas that housed the North Stars and Moose, I can help. The Moose played at the St. Paul Civic Center, former home of the WHA Minnesota Fighting Saints. That arena was leveled and the Xcel Center built on the same site when the Wild got a franchise in the NHL. The Moose played two years in St. Paul before being sold to the group in Winnipeg to begin there the season after the Jets left. By that time the Met Center, former home of the North Stars, had been demolished. Minnesota fans weren't interested enough in minor league hockey after having the North Stars, and with the NCAA hockey Gophers across town and high school and youth hockey all around. It didn't work so well here, but I'm glad the Moose turned out to be a stepping stone for Winnipeg to get the arena they needed to get their Jets back.
MUCH OBLIGED, WildGopher

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01-23-2013, 09:30 PM
  #748
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the Moose were bought by TNSE after the transfer of the original Jets to Phoenix, aqib, IT was widely reported that the club was 2 steps from termination had Chipman not bought them, and the IHL was willing to go through w/ that.... that has nothing to do w/ the Wild being awarded a franchise, nor does that have anything to do w/ the Coyotes current status, remember too, Winnipeg Arena remained standing when the Moose arrived in MTB, Chipman officially bought them in 2003, as part of TNSE.
None of this disproves my original point (and actually supports this) a minor league teams success or plight doesn't foretell the fate of an NHL team. The Moose didn't do well, as you just said they were 2 steps from termination, but the Wild did. The Atlanta Knights did well the Thrashers didn't.

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01-23-2013, 09:32 PM
  #749
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Really dissapointing if you are a Coyotes fan, or a player.
uh, no, considering most Coyotes players and fans, aren't paying attention to off ice issues, Pat, MUCH LESS THOSE PROSPECTS tht they've seen here in Portland or vice versa, ever since the saga began over the ownerless franchise, it's a non-issue, and this is the 3rd year Portland's been their home prospect-wise, even when they were in SA, there was no issues since the BK case began...

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01-23-2013, 09:32 PM
  #750
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Just to clarify did the Moose move before or after the Wild were awarded?
The Moose moved from St. Paul to Winnipeg almost exactly a year before the Wild were awarded the NHL franchise. They moved after the 1996 season, and the Wild, as you said, were awarded in June, 1997. CHRDANHUTCH is correct that the Moose were losing money, so they were destined to be moved or maybe folded, but it's not correct that they had to move because the Wild got a franchise. They could have played another season in St. Paul before the Wild got their team and then have to move out so the Civic Center could be demolished.

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