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Phoenix LXVIII - "Watch out for that Tree"

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:21 PM
  #101
powerstuck
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I do get all you guys say, but...

How would an attempt to renegotiate the current deal (obviously in favor of Glendale) again, all while trying to extend the deadline, how would all that be seen by GWI and other anti-Coyotes parties ?

To me honestly, that only seems that the 1st deal back in May was a scam, the current deal is a scam and that the next deal could be a scam aswell.

I mean how can NHL/Jamison possibly be asking for an average of 15-16M a year in first deal, then be okay with 12M a year in 2nd deal and possible be willing to accept something in more of an okay range of 8-9M a year ?

That may eliminate the gift clause, but at the same time, it will prove that the NHL/Jamison DO NOT need Glendale money, they are just taking chances for asking some cash and getting it.

It's like a kid going to see a dad and saying : Daddy, I need 20 bucks knowing chances of dad saying no are there, but if daddy ends up giving him 10 bucks, he still walks away happy.

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01-17-2013, 12:27 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
It's like a kid going to see a dad and saying : Daddy, I need 20 bucks knowing chances of dad saying no are there, but if daddy ends up giving him 10 bucks, he still walks away happy.
its more like if his dad offered him 20 bucks to start with, he delayed and saw that offer go down to $10, delayed again and saw it go down to $6 ... and eventually he accepts $3. sure, $3 is a free $3, but he could have had $20. stupid kid.

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01-17-2013, 12:38 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
I can't see the new city council extending this the closing date beyond the 31st. I believe based upon the comments of those who won offices that only one new council member is mildly in favor of this deal, and would want an opportunity to change it rather than extend it.

If GJ can't close by the 31st, the efforts to retain the team in Arizona are all but dead. The interesting thing is the NHL doesn't have any money coming its way to operate the team or the arena. The NHL could stand to lose a substantial sum if they do not arrange a closing with GJ. Does the NHL have the incentive to lower the actual price, give financing or unique terms to improve upon this deal and get it done? Or will the NHL figure it will make itself whole by getting a nice relocation fee from QC?

The fact that GJ has not closed and the season is about to start is particularly troubling to me. A deal was reportedly reached between he and the NHL last summer. The cloud on the lease and the CBA was resolved. GJ was supposed to have met with the NHL either late last week or early this week, but there has been no report of a meeting. I doubt deal documentation is the hold up.

I will not be surprised to see the 31st date pass, and GJ throwing himself on the council for another month or so. I see the council saying no. I see the NHL leaving and saying they did all they could. I see GJ exclaiming he gave it the old college try.

For my own selfish reasons, I hope I am mistaken....

As an aside, estimated that between 4,000 and 5,000 fans came out last night to watch the red/white scrimmage. Curious how that would compare to some other markets. Is that a good turnout, or a weak turnout for more traditional markets?
Minnesota sold out (free tickets) the scrimmage and could have put another 5,000 in! All merchandise was discounted 50% and was basically sold out!

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01-17-2013, 12:50 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post

As an aside, estimated that between 4,000 and 5,000 fans came out last night to watch the red/white scrimmage. Curious how that would compare to some other markets. Is that a good turnout, or a weak turnout for more traditional markets?

I'd say that's a pretty solid turnout for a scrimmage, goyotes, especially considering potential damage a lockout might have done to the fan base

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01-17-2013, 12:58 PM
  #105
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I'd say that's a pretty solid turnout for a scrimmage, goyotes, especially considering potential damage a lockout might have done to the fan base
The scrimmage was @6 on a weekday, and not heavily advertised. It was a phenomenal turnout all things considered and psyched the players up. Jamison was there with management. Nealy said in a radio interview Tuesday that they are in what he believes to be the final days and that this will get done. The most definitive thing I've ever heard from him.

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01-17-2013, 01:02 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
given that a move to QC would require playing in the old shed for a couple of years, there is little difference between that and moving to the hammer and playing in Copps while needed reno's take place off season. logistically, the hammer is just as viable as quebec. expected pissing contests with mlse and sabres would be little more than additional wrinkles.

but yes, the relocation ball to either the hammer or quebec can start rolling on Feb1, with just the official announcements, u-hauls and hoop-la ticket sales having to wait until after the yotes take their final bow in the desert in june.

all this can take place regardless of any real or fake negotiations in phoenix to keep the team there.
Well, in as much as Id absolutely love to see that happening, but with this particular franchise? It would be the absolute height of both hypocrisy & irony for the NHL to pull a complete 180 & facilitate a sale of the Phoenix Coyotes to whomever in Hamilton. I mean, can you imagine how that would play out? Sure, the folks in Southern Ontario would be ecstatic, but everywhere else, the NHL would be absolutely crucified for initially standing on principal & pride, completely disparaging Hamilton & Copps Coliseum, bleeding Glendale for 3 years, putting the fans & everyone else through Hell? Theres just no way. I cant imagine it. Then theres this...

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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Toronto 2/ Hamilton will be through expansion, not relo. Too much money to be made.
Precisely. You'd wanna sell an Expansion Franchise to Hamilton, the money arriving completely unencumbered. If the Leafs are reputedly worth north of $500M, the Sabres $250M, how about $350M for Hamilton, plus indemnification fee's going to Toronto & Buffalo, pushing the whole price up to somewhere around $550M+? You sell Phoenix to Hamilton, thats $170M-$200M shaved right off the top. The BOG's arent going to go for that, certainly not Toronto. No way.

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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
this myth seems to persist ... the NHL will make no more or less money if it expands... when i buy my team for hamilton, i will pay no more or less for it if it is the coyotes or if it is a new team. any different in expansion vs relocation fee is offset by the costs of purchasing (or not) an existing team, in this case owned by the league itself. my total purchase cost is identical either way.
I dont think so GS, your total cost will not be the same as anywhere else. Your looking at paying a serious premium in Hamilton. This is all about maximizing what the other 30 teams will receive when the league expands into Southern Ontario. Because of the precedent set last year in selling the Thrashers to Winnipeg at $170M all in, the same price Phoenix is tagged at, selling them at that price with possibly a smallish relo fee tacked onto the top to a market of app the same size capable of providing the same strengths as Winnipeg would make far more sense. Only Quebec offers such, the Colisee' in its existing state none too shabby at all, a new building going up within eyesite, a willing owner, supportive municipality & province, no issues of territorial infringement etc. Expansion Fee's = 100% Profit. Relocation Sale = Status Quo / Relocation Fee = Peanuts in the grand scheme of things.


Last edited by Killion: 01-17-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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01-17-2013, 01:14 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
The scrimmage was @6 on a weekday, and not heavily advertised. It was a phenomenal turnout all things considered and psyched the players up. Jamison was there with management. Nealy said in a radio interview Tuesday that they are in what he believes to be the final days and that this will get done. The most definitive thing I've ever heard from him.
Stretching the rubber band an inch longer everyday, hoping it won't break and can still go further.

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01-17-2013, 01:21 PM
  #108
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Please, someone fill in the blanks to try to explain how it is "better" to save one market for expansion. Let's assume that the NHL has (1) decided to move Phoenix for 2013-14, (2) decided to add another team at the same time, (3) decided that there will be a team in Quebec and a team in Hamilton. Let's also assume Hamilton and Quebec owners have a fixed total price in mind, and really don't care if they get a shiny new expansion team or a slightly used legacy team from Arizona.

Scenario 1: Phoenix to Hamliton plus Expansion in Quebec:

Quebec Buyer pays $_________ to league for expansion team

Hamilton Buyer pays $__________ to league for the Phoenix Coyotes
Hamilton Buyer pays $__________ to league for a relocation fee
Hamilton Buyer pays $__________ to Toronto / Buffalo

Total money to NHL = $_________

Scenario 2: Phoenix to Quebec plus Expansion in Hamilton:

Quebec Buyer pays $_________ to league for Phoenix Coyotes
Quebec Buyer pays $_________ to league for relocation fee

Hamilton Buyer pays $__________ to league for expansion fee
Hamilton Buyer pays $__________ to Toronto / Buffalo

Total money to NHL = $_________

Please, someone help me figure this out. I beg you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post

As an aside, estimated that between 4,000 and 5,000 fans came out last night to watch the red/white scrimmage. Curious how that would compare to some other markets. Is that a good turnout, or a weak turnout for more traditional markets?
It's minus 10 degrees Celsius in Montreal, and lineups started 9 hours before game time for a red-vs-white scrimmage at the Bell Center. The building will have 20,000+ in attendance. Game is free. But thousands of people will line up for hours to get into a practice in disturbingly cold weather. On a weekday. When they should be working or in school. So Phoenix, once again, pales by comparison.

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01-17-2013, 01:41 PM
  #109
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Well, in as much as Id absolutely love to see that happening, but with this particular franchise? It would be the absolute height of both hypocrisy & irony for the NHL to pull a complete 180 & facilitate a sale of the Phoenix Coyotes to whomever in Hamilton. I mean, can you imagine how that would play out? Sure, the folks in Southern Ontario would be ecstatic, but everywhere else, the NHL would be absolutely crucified for initially standing on principal & pride, completely disparaging Hamilton & Copps Coliseum, bleeding Glendale for 3 years, putting the fans & everyone else through Hell? Theres just no way. I cant imagine it.
you cannot imagine it while bettman is commish ...


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Precisely. You'd wanna sell an Expansion Franchise to Hamilton, the money arriving completely unencumbered. If the Leafs are reputedly worth north of $500M, the Sabres $250M, how about $350M for Hamilton, plus indemnification fee's going to Toronto & Buffalo, pushing the whole price up to somewhere around $550M+? You sell Phoenix to Hamilton, thats $170M-$200M shaved right off the top. The BOG's arent going to go for that, certainly not Toronto. No way.

I dont think so GS, your total cost will not be the same as anywhere else. Your looking at paying a serious premium in Hamilton. This is all about maximizing what the other 30 teams will receive when the league expands into Southern Ontario. Because of the precedent set last year in selling the Thrashers to Winnipeg at $170M all in, the same price Phoenix is tagged at, selling them at that price with possibly a smallish relo fee tacked onto the top to a market of app the same size capable of providing the same strengths as Winnipeg would make far more sense. Only Quebec offers such, the Colisee' in its existing state none too shabby at all, a new building going up within eyesite, a willing owner, supportive municipality & province, no issues of territorial infringement etc. Expansion Fee's = 100% Profit. Relocation Sale = Status Quo / Relocation Fee = Peanuts in the grand scheme of things.
I guess i wasn't clear. Yes, of course the total cost will vary between cities ... but it will essentially be the same within a city whether it is by way of expansion or relocation. I will pay no more for my team in hamilton if I buy the yotes or if I get an expansion team. The red herring in all this is that proceeds of the sale of an existing team going to an existing owner. That does not enter into the equation because that's money that that current owner would be owed on sale. The fact that the NHL IS the current owner of this team in Phoenix is just a unique complication, but it does not affect the total picture.

CGG's template does a good job if quantifying what I mean.

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01-17-2013, 01:43 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
Please, someone fill in the blanks to try to explain how it is "better" to save one market for expansion.... I beg you, someone explain this to me.
I hear ya, see where your coming from and on the surface its a "wash" either way.... oh, and no need to "beg". Change or smokes, I got em, you need, have at em.

Scenario 1: Phoenix to Hamliton plus Expansion in Quebec:

Quebec Buyer pays $250M to league for expansion team

Hamilton Buyer pays $170M* to league for the Phoenix Coyotes
Hamilton Buyer pays $150M to league for a relocation fee
Hamilton Buyer pays $150M to Toronto / Buffalo

Total money to NHL = $400M

Scenario 2: Phoenix to Quebec plus Expansion in Hamilton:

Quebec Buyer pays $170M* to league for Phoenix Coyotes
Quebec Buyer pays $50M to league for relocation fee

Hamilton Buyer pays $350M to league for expansion fee
Hamilton Buyer pays $150M to Toronto / Buffalo

Total money to NHL = $400M

* The league is out $170M either way, minimum, money spent, gone.

They net free & clear $250M if they simply Expand to QC, $350M (guesstimate) to Hamilton.

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01-17-2013, 01:44 PM
  #111
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I do get all you guys say, but...

How would an attempt to renegotiate the current deal (obviously in favor of Glendale) again, all while trying to extend the deadline, how would all that be seen by GWI and other anti-Coyotes parties ?

To me honestly, that only seems that the 1st deal back in May was a scam, the current deal is a scam and that the next deal could be a scam aswell.

I mean how can NHL/Jamison possibly be asking for an average of 15-16M a year in first deal, then be okay with 12M a year in 2nd deal and possible be willing to accept something in more of an okay range of 8-9M a year ?

That may eliminate the gift clause, but at the same time, it will prove that the NHL/Jamison DO NOT need Glendale money, they are just taking chances for asking some cash and getting it.

It's like a kid going to see a dad and saying : Daddy, I need 20 bucks knowing chances of dad saying no are there, but if daddy ends up giving him 10 bucks, he still walks away happy.
Answering (in parts) as best that I can recall

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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
How would an attempt to renegotiate the current deal (obviously in favor of Glendale) again, all while trying to extend the deadline, how would all that be seen by GWI and other anti-Coyotes parties ?
The lower the AMF, the greater the chance that it is not deemed grossly disproportionate. Personally, I've never been anti-Coyotes. I'm anti-subsidy. From any municipality and it's partnership with an NHL team. I believe in ownership wherewithal and if there isn't any, then it's incumbent upon that ownership group to get it's collective **** together or cut bait. Some ask me how I feel about the deal the Preds have... or I've gone thru several back-and-forths about the Panthers and Broward County.

I frown upon subsidies, but in the case like the Preds I can remain keeping that generally to myself because the market is more sound, the city (to my knowledge) is not on the verge of bankruptcy, forsaking it's employees and services to trim bottom lines to make a subsidy fit, etc.

In regards to the Panthers, in a situation where the team itself performs poorly in it's revenue generation yet "kills it" from an Arena perspective, as one prominent Player Agent who I am blocked by on Twitter has repeatedly stated, then I see no need whatsoever for SSE to have reached out the Broward County Commission for loans, period. True that loans are loans and seperate from subsidies, but if your Arena Lease arrangement with them allows you to "kills it", yet you seek loans, restructuring and amendments to your existing extremely favorable agreement, and the amounts of those loans are seemingly "paltry" as one responder said to me, then aren't you just using someone elses money in the short term (which is what a loan is anyway right?). But why? And in doing so, you set back a budgeted item from which that municipality had earmarked and thus extract those funds for something you very well have the capability of handling yourself.

I have a problem with that.

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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
I mean how can NHL/Jamison possibly be asking for an average of 15-16M a year in first deal, then be okay with 12M a year in 2nd deal and possible be willing to accept something in more of an okay range of 8-9M a year ?
Cost certainty now, perhaps, comes into play here

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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
That may eliminate the gift clause, but at the same time, it will prove that the NHL/Jamison DO NOT need Glendale money, they are just taking chances for asking some cash and getting it.
Any sucker willing... Cutting the AMF in half greatly improves their chances of eliminating the grossly disproportionate aspect, thus assumingly passing the Gift Clause "test" (see above).


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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
It's like a kid going to see a dad and saying : Daddy, I need 20 bucks knowing chances of dad saying no are there, but if daddy ends up giving him 10 bucks, he still walks away happy.
If any child was that enterprising, they would ask for 50 instead and settle on the 20 initially sought

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01-17-2013, 01:49 PM
  #112
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Please, someone fill in the blanks to try to explain how it is "better" to save one market for expansion.
Maybe we should start by assessing whether a league that has reportedly as many as half of its franchises in the red is ripe for expansion. To me, it appears that the NHL is in no position to expand.

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01-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #113
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Maybe we should start by assessing whether a league that has reportedly as many as half of its franchises in the red is ripe for expansion. To me, it appears that the NHL is in no position to expand.
stop being the voice of reason!

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01-17-2013, 01:55 PM
  #114
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Maybe we should start by assessing whether a league that has reportedly as many as half of its franchises in the red is ripe for expansion. To me, it appears that the NHL is in no position to expand.
I absolutely agree with this, just trying to understand the absurd notion that the NHL is better off picking a crappier market to send the Coyotes to instead of going to a Hamilton / Toronto2 / Quebec. The idea of "saving" a market for expansion (where more money can be made!!$!) has always confused me.

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01-17-2013, 01:57 PM
  #115
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Maybe we should start by assessing whether a league that has reportedly as many as half of its franchises in the red is ripe for expansion. To me, it appears that the NHL is in no position to expand.
There is actually only 1 team that could possibly move on the short term and there are 3 cities that could be ready soon (Seattle, Québec, Toronto 2/ Hamilton). Plus there are cities like Hartford that will soon be a candidate in my opinion. The point is there will always be a city willing to grab an NHL team. So the NHL will be able to do an expansion in the next few years, i would bet on it.

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01-17-2013, 01:57 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
Scenario 1: Phoenix to Hamliton plus Expansion in Quebec:

Quebec Buyer pays $__300M__ to league for expansion team

Hamilton Buyer pays $__190M__ to league for the Phoenix Coyotes
Hamilton Buyer pays $__60M__ to league for a relocation fee
Hamilton Buyer pays $__50M each, 100M total__ to Toronto / Buffalo

Total money to NHL = $__550M__

Scenario 2: Phoenix to Quebec plus Expansion in Hamilton:

Quebec Buyer pays $__190M__ to league for Phoenix Coyotes
Quebec Buyer pays $__60M__ to league for relocation fee

Hamilton Buyer pays $__450-500M__ to league for expansion fee
Hamilton Buyer pays $__50M each, 100M total__ to Toronto / Buffalo

Total money to NHL = $__700-750M__
My numbers are based on these assumptions.

Coyotes speculated sale price is at $170M and was supposed to cover all LOSES by NHL. Since Phoenix will stay another season where it is, and everyone says annual losses are about $20M per year, new sale price goes up to $190M.

While expansion fee might be lower/higher, I simply took what TSNE paid for Trashers to Winnipeg, which was $60M, and I can hardly see NHL justify a different price two years later (or much different for what it's worth, add a +/- $5M).

Finally, Quebec does not have a LOCAL concurrent for an NHL team. Thus, $300M seems to be a fair expansion fee price. Also, NHL will gain a new TV partnership with Quebecor (potential owner of the Nordiques and futur manager of the arena). So that can help keep the price somewhat reasonable.

In Hamilton, local competition is present. 2nd Toronto team, Markham, Hamilton. That alone will drive the price of expansion up and by up it is not excluded that there may be FAKE investors working for Leafs and Sabres who will drive the prices up simply to discourage anyone to even attempt to put a new team in their territory without emptying their pockets.

You could have added a potential loss and increase in TV revenues by the NHL. We know NHL might lose some money by removing one American market, but that should not cost them their sweet NBC deal. But, putting another team in Canadian market will bring in substantial new TV revenues.

For Quebec, as I said above, Quebecor will pay whatever it costs to land the Nordiques but RDS who now have RDS2 will want to get a hand on them aswell (would help boost the sales for RDS2 for sure).

In Southern Ontario, the competition will be even harder. Bell (TSN/TSN2) will be up for grabs, how will (well) Rodgers respond to that ? Shaw ? Cogeco ? Telus ? CBC will want part of the pie but they will have to pay extra of what they are paying right now.

I'm obviously not fully familiar with media market in that region but I know that major players will want to get their hands on.

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01-17-2013, 01:57 PM
  #117
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Nealy said in a radio interview Tuesday that they are in what he believes to be the final days and that this will get done. The most definitive thing I've ever heard from him.
This Mike Nealy?

"The Phoenix Coyotes could be nearing a sale, which would keep the team in the desert, the club's president and chief operating officer said Thursday. "Things are moving pretty quickly and a lot of work is being done,'' Mike Nealy said in an interview with ESPN.com and QMI Agency of Canada. "I wouldn't be shocked if we saw something next week." - May 3, 2012

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01-17-2013, 01:58 PM
  #118
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I hear ya, see where your coming from and on the surface its a "wash" either way.... oh, and no need to "beg". Change or smokes, I got em, you need, have at em.

Scenario 1: Phoenix to Hamliton plus Expansion in Quebec:

Quebec Buyer pays $250M to league for expansion team

Hamilton Buyer pays $170M* to league for the Phoenix Coyotes
Hamilton Buyer pays $150M to league for a relocation fee (= $320M total)
Hamilton Buyer pays $150M to Toronto / Buffalo

Total money to NHL = $400M

Scenario 2: Phoenix to Quebec plus Expansion in Hamilton:

Quebec Buyer pays $170M* to league for Phoenix Coyotes
Quebec Buyer pays $50M ($80M) to league for relocation fee (=$250M total as above)

Hamilton Buyer pays $350M ($320M) to league for expansion fee (=$320M total as above)
Hamilton Buyer pays $150M to Toronto / Buffalo

Total money to NHL = $400M

* The league is out $170M either way, minimum, money spent, gone.

They net free & clear $250M if they simply Expand to QC, $350M (guesstimate) to Hamilton.
i am not going to pay any more or less in total for an expansion team than i am going to pay for a relocated team.

aside from that though, what do you mean the NHL is out $170M?

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01-17-2013, 02:00 PM
  #119
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I absolutely agree with this, just trying to understand the absurd notion that the NHL is better off picking a crappier market to send the Coyotes to instead of going to a Hamilton / Toronto2 / Quebec. The idea of "saving" a market for expansion (where more money can be made!!$!) has always confused me.
There is no US open market I believe will do better than Phoenix long term. I do not believe Seattle, KC or Vegas will have much success. None of those markets have establish hockey cultures. If relocation happens, the only suitable locations are in Canada from a purely economic perspective. Why people think Seattle would be good is beyond me. They do not have an established hockey culture beyond junior hockey. Participation is not that high in Washington state. It doesn't really snow in Seattle proper. It is a big city and a decent tv market, but hockey is not more suitable there than it is in Phoenix, which at least had a 25 year history of IHL, WHA and Pacific league minor pro teams (and for a period of time, NCAA D1 in Flag) before the Coyotes landed in Arizona.

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01-17-2013, 02:01 PM
  #120
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This Mike Nealy?

"The Phoenix Coyotes could be nearing a sale, which would keep the team in the desert, the club's president and chief operating officer said Thursday. "Things are moving pretty quickly and a lot of work is being done,'' Mike Nealy said in an interview with ESPN.com and QMI Agency of Canada. "I wouldn't be shocked if we saw something next week." - May 3, 2012
Isn't this guy's job to sell as many tickets for the NHL team in Phoenix? I dont think he can say anything else if he wants to sell them.

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01-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #121
Killion
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
CGG's template does a good job if quantifying what I mean.
Yes, I did actually get the gist of what you were saying, where your coming from. Past Expansions theres always been a set fee, you submit an application, put down a deposit (or not as was the case with Ron Joyce, and as it was non-refundable... told "dont bother" up-front) and make your presentations. I would expect however that any Expansion into Southern Ontario would come with a higher price than anywhere else, from the entry fee itself to also having to pay the Sabres & Leafs indemnification. I just dont see the NHL nor any of the BOG's approving a Relo Sale whereby app $200M goes to pay off the in this case NHL's LOC. Cant see them taking a haircut like that. Leaving all that bread on the table. Could be completely mistaken, but I doubt it.

Edit Note; to your last post GS, the NHL is "out" $170M (minimum, and likely more) as they obviously in owning the team, being the vendor, have to pay off the LOC with BankAmerica they've dipped into buy & operate Phoenix.


Last edited by Killion: 01-17-2013 at 02:11 PM.
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01-17-2013, 02:04 PM
  #122
madhi19
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I absolutely agree with this, just trying to understand the absurd notion that the NHL is better off picking a crappier market to send the Coyotes to instead of going to a Hamilton / Toronto2 / Quebec. The idea of "saving" a market for expansion (where more money can be made!!$!) has always confused me.
The notion that you make more money by keeping teams in crap market and cashing in bigger expansion check is ridiculous. You still have to give those teams revenue sharing every year. But if these teams are moved to market that won't need revenue sharing you either give a bigger slice to teams who qualify for it or you expand the rank of teams who get RS.

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01-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #123
GuelphStormer
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
In Hamilton, local competition is present. 2nd Toronto team, Markham, Hamilton. That alone will drive the price of expansion up and by up it is not excluded that there may be FAKE investors working for Leafs and Sabres who will drive the prices up simply to discourage anyone to even attempt to put a new team in their territory without emptying their pockets.
i dont understand this ... would the market not similarly drive up the price for a team in the hammer regardless of it being a used team or a new team? your scenario has me paying $450M to $500M for a new team (that I have to go out and build, what a hassle, eh) and only $250M for an old, dirty, used team. (i agree, costs re: mlse and sabres are a wash)

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01-17-2013, 02:08 PM
  #124
Undertakerqc
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
i dont understand this ... would the market not similarly drive up the price for a team in the hammer regardless of it being a used team or a new team? your scenario has me paying $450M to $500M for a new team (that I have to go out and build, what a hassle, eh) and only $250M for an old, dirty, used team. (i agree, costs re: mlse and sabres are a wash)
The biggest question for Toronto 2 should be: will Toronto 1 (aka the Leafs) allow such a move?

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01-17-2013, 02:09 PM
  #125
XX
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
This Mike Nealy?

"The Phoenix Coyotes could be nearing a sale, which would keep the team in the desert, the club's president and chief operating officer said Thursday. "Things are moving pretty quickly and a lot of work is being done,'' Mike Nealy said in an interview with ESPN.com and QMI Agency of Canada. "I wouldn't be shocked if we saw something next week." - May 3, 2012
This one

http://icestream.bonnint.net:8000/az...2013192234.mp3

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