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Old
02-01-2013, 11:11 AM
  #326
Jame
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
So can we start shopping for a defenseman now?
Remember when everyone and their brother wrote off Mike Weber...

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02-01-2013, 11:13 AM
  #327
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So can we start shopping for a defenseman now?

And yes, ROR would be an ideal talent for the Sabres due to his ability to shut people down and produce offensively while doing it. That's also why I don't think there is any way to get him out of Colorado without using an offersheet.
I completely agree. And I would LOVE to go the offersheet route.

It's such a perfect fit...
Hodgson
Oreilly
Grigorenko

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02-01-2013, 11:22 AM
  #328
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I completely agree. And I would LOVE to go the offersheet route.

It's such a perfect fit...
Hodgson
Oreilly
Grigorenko
And the OS lets them keep the shiny shiney toy in Ennis, putting him back on the wing. Or put him into a deal if they want.

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02-01-2013, 11:26 AM
  #329
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And the OS lets them keep the shiny shiney toy in Ennis, putting him back on the wing. Or put him into a deal if they want.
yup...

Vanek-Hodgson-Pommer - #1
Foligno-Oreilly-Stafford/Ott - Shutdown
Ennis-Grigorenko-Stafford/Ott - Clean Up

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Old
02-01-2013, 11:41 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
yup...

Vanek-Hodgson-Pommer - #1
Foligno-Oreilly-Stafford/Ott - Shutdown
Ennis-Grigorenko-Stafford/Ott - Clean Up



That is dirty. Although it does raise the question of what to do with Armia in a year or two. I guess we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
The nice thing is in two years Girgs can replace Ott on the wing if he walks and we still have plenty of C in case of injury or the need for two guys who can take the draw late in the game. That or Girgs starts on the 4th line if Ott is still here. Quite a bit of flexibility.

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02-01-2013, 11:44 AM
  #331
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That is dirty. Although it does raise the question of what to do with Armia in a year or two. I guess we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
The nice thing is in two years Girgs can replace Ott on the wing if he walks and we still have plenty of C in case of injury or the need for two guys who can take the draw late in the game. That or Girgs starts on the 4th line if Ott is still here. Quite a bit of flexibility.
Vanek, Pommer, and Ott all have 1 more season...

or, we can trade from a position of strength, to improve the blueline

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02-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  #332
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The bottom line is... you aren't going ANYWHERE until we have a player like O'reilly to matchup in the post season

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02-01-2013, 11:55 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Vanek, Pommer, and Ott all have 1 more season...

or, we can trade from a position of strength, to improve the blueline
Yes but swapping out Vanek or Pommer with Armia is probably not what you want to do if you plan on making a deep run. Same with Ott. In my mind the deal is not to make a run today but to get to a place where something can happen 2014-2017. The Rochester core will be in their first UFA contract but still in their prime and the kids will be coming into their own. The only problem is the D is looking weak but you addressed that above in regards to dealing from a position of strength.

Looking at the compensation for RFAs, as long as the AAV is less than $5 mil the compensation is only a 1st and a 3rd. Assuming they are not busts those picks will not help us until 5 years down the road.

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02-01-2013, 12:26 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by kenfury View Post
Yes but swapping out Vanek or Pommer with Armia is probably not what you want to do if you plan on making a deep run. Same with Ott. In my mind the deal is not to make a run today but to get to a place where something can happen 2014-2017. The Rochester core will be in their first UFA contract but still in their prime and the kids will be coming into their own. The only problem is the D is looking weak but you addressed that above in regards to dealing from a position of strength.

Looking at the compensation for RFAs, as long as the AAV is less than $5 mil the compensation is only a 1st and a 3rd. Assuming they are not busts those picks will not help us until 5 years down the road.
In what world are we poised for a deep run this year?

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02-01-2013, 12:47 PM
  #335
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In what world are we poised for a deep run this year?
In Imaginationland, which is the same place that ROR is a great playoff performer.

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02-01-2013, 12:48 PM
  #336
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In Imaginationland, which is the same place that ROR is a great playoff performer.

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02-01-2013, 12:50 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
In Imaginationland, which is the same place that ROR is a great playoff performer.
ROR plays the type of game that is necessary for playoff success.

Do you disagree that Oreilly is a good shutdown center?
Do you disagree that a good shut down center is a key to playoff success?

Or are you just attempting to frame the argument in a way that doesn't highlight it's flaws?

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02-01-2013, 12:52 PM
  #338
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In Imaginationland, which is the same place that ROR is a great playoff performer.
Is that the same world where Tyler Ennis is a better all-around player than Ryan O'Reilly?

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02-01-2013, 01:01 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by kenfury View Post
Yes but swapping out Vanek or Pommer with Armia is probably not what you want to do if you plan on making a deep run. Same with Ott. In my mind the deal is not to make a run today but to get to a place where something can happen 2014-2017. The Rochester core will be in their first UFA contract but still in their prime and the kids will be coming into their own. The only problem is the D is looking weak but you addressed that above in regards to dealing from a position of strength.

Looking at the compensation for RFAs, as long as the AAV is less than $5 mil the compensation is only a 1st and a 3rd. Assuming they are not busts those picks will not help us until 5 years down the road.
But the AAV can't be figured by more than 5 years....

I'd go crazy and offer 7 yrs / 38.5 / 5.5 cap
But the AAV for RFA Compensation would be 38.5/5=7.5 Comp value
Which would be TWO 1sts, a 2nd, and 3rd


$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

But again... I place a premium value on both :
A) The type of player O'reilly is
B) The need for that type of player for this team to be re-built properly

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:02 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
In what world are we poised for a deep run this year?
We are not. Note the next line. "where something can happen 2014-2017" In other words you dont let Vanek or Pomms leave when their contract is up just to replace them with Armia if you want to make a run in the next two to five years as Armina vs Vanek or Pomms would be a regression in that window (2014-2017).

Hence why I don't mind offersheeting RoR as the picks that we would give up will not become payers during the 2014-2017 window.

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02-01-2013, 01:02 PM
  #341
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Is that the same world where Tyler Ennis is a better all-around player than Ryan O'Reilly?
No, that would be Opinionland, where we are each entitled to make judgements based on things that have actually happened.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:37 PM
  #342
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No, that would be Opinionland, where we are each entitled to make judgements based on things that have actually happened.
Uninformed Opinionland

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #343
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Uninformed Opinionland
Or as I call it, "Texas"

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:05 PM
  #344
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Or as I call it, "Texas"

I can;t help but think about the Texas School System rewriting history books.

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02-01-2013, 02:14 PM
  #345
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Philly would match any offer made...
Good, then screw over Phillys cap space. There is just as much of a chance of a Giroux offer sheet this off season then one for O'Reilly now

I'm sure the Flyers would easily be able to afford Giroux at 6 years/60 million while still being able to ice a top team If the Flyers had to pay Giroux 10 million a year then that would screw them over big time and what better team to do that to then Philly. Btw, giving a second line center in O'Reilly who has scored 50+ points one time 5.5 million a year and giving up 2 1st round picks and more to sign him to that deal is hardly a great idea. Tyler Myers had 1 great season out of 3 too and that 5.5 million a year contract we gave him is looking like a steal If someone's making 5.5 million a season they better provide a lot of offense to go with defensive prowess.

I'm also surprised you slowed down on the Trade Vanek agenda which you've been drumming up ever since I have been here. I guess when the guy you hate is tearing up the NHL and leading the league in scoring it's hard to get people to agree to trading him for a prospect and 1st round pick

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:34 PM
  #346
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Good, then screw over Phillys cap space. There is just as much of a chance of a Giroux offer sheet this off season then one for O'Reilly now

I'm sure the Flyers would easily be able to afford Giroux at 6 years/60 million while still being able to ice a top team If the Flyers had to pay Giroux 10 million a year then that would screw them over big time and what better team to do that to then Philly. Btw, giving a second line center in O'Reilly who has scored 50+ points one time 5.5 million a year and giving up 2 1st round picks and more to sign him to that deal is hardly a great idea. Tyler Myers had 1 great season out of 3 too and that 5.5 million a year contract we gave him is looking like a steal If someone's making 5.5 million a season they better provide a lot of offense to go with defensive prowess.

I'm also surprised you slowed down on the Trade Vanek agenda which you've been drumming up ever since I have been here. I guess when the guy you hate is tearing up the NHL and leading the league in scoring it's hard to get people to agree to trading him for a prospect and 1st round pick
I think there is a huge difference between the two.

So, wouldn't a 10 mil cap hit screw over the Sabres too? Is your suggestion to risk screwing over our own cap, to screw over another team?

Building a contender is about a lot more than points. I would trade anyone if I felt it served the purpose of building said contender.

I've suggested blowing up the Rochester core for years... and Vanek/Pommer were always the last of those pieces I wanted to move.

If the Sabres were going to embrace a full rebuild, putting Vanek on the market would most certainly be an option.

Or we could continue building around those players (Calgary/Iginla)

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02-01-2013, 02:38 PM
  #347
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I think 5.5 for a 2nd line/shutdown center is money well spent

Kesler 5.0
JStaal 6.0
MRichards 5.75

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:52 PM
  #348
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I think 5.5 for a 2nd line/shutdown center is money well spent

Kesler 5.0
JStaal 6.0
MRichards 5.75
RoR is not even asking for that much apparently http://www.denverpost.com/portal/ava...29&_loopback=1

I see no reason why you cant do a $25/5 yr type offer.

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02-01-2013, 02:59 PM
  #349
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RoR is not even asking for that much apparently http://www.denverpost.com/portal/ava...29&_loopback=1

I see no reason why you cant do a $25/5 yr type offer.
I was trying to go big enough to discourage Colorado from matching. Based on the CBA, you can't do as much front loading, as yearly variation is limited to a certain % (can't remember off the top of my head the exact %). So term (years), might be the better avenue, as well as increasing the compensation (two 1sts) to something that might seem more enticing

End of day... Colorado probably matches anything within reason... but i can dream

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02-01-2013, 03:38 PM
  #350
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yup...

Vanek-Hodgson-Pommer - #1
Foligno-Oreilly-Stafford/Ott - Shutdown
Ennis-Grigorenko-Stafford/Ott - Clean Up
Those look so good, would have stafford on easy minutes line probably, if Grigorenko were to have problems on draws I'd switch Ott to that line

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