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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXXI

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01-23-2013, 06:42 PM
  #326
RockLobster
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Originally Posted by BoxOfChocolates View Post
On the other hand, Sherman sitting on his hands and allowing this horrendous d-core to remain intact without adding a top pairing d-man would also set this team back. More so then trading a greedy 3C IMO
We don't know the whole story, we don't know if it's greed, again, negotiations went sour for a reason, TPS even stated that everything was going great, and then Summer hit and it was like the Avalanche changed their tune, I think that people are forgetting that. Sounds like they were dangerously close to an agreement, and then the Avs management started going back on their word.

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01-23-2013, 06:45 PM
  #327
Pierce Hawthorne
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Any decent UFA's left we could sign for a year? Rather then give up an asset?

Sykora, Arnott, or Langkow could be decent on the 3rd line if they're not already signed.

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01-23-2013, 06:50 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
We don't know the whole story, we don't know if it's greed, again, negotiations went sour for a reason, TPS even stated that everything was going great, and then Summer hit and it was like the Avalanche changed their tune, I think that people are forgetting that. Sounds like they were dangerously close to an agreement, and then the Avs management started going back on their word.
I have a feeling Avs front office would have a completely different version of what happened. I'd be surprised they would agree with the sides being close to an agreement, considering how far apart they are now. Or are you suggesting O'Reilly got so angry that he increased his demands?

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01-23-2013, 07:03 PM
  #329
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I dont see this posted anywhere but im probably blind. Downie is out the seaso with a torn acl

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01-23-2013, 07:06 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I have a feeling Avs front office would have a completely different version of what happened. I'd be surprised they would agree with the sides being close to an agreement, considering how far apart they are now. Or are you suggesting O'Reilly got so angry that he increased his demands?
Timeline of what we know:

After the season ends, shortly before EJ signed his deal, TPS updates us, says that O'Reilly and the Avs are extremely close, and that O'Reilly should be signed very soon. He even points out that both sides are "in love with each other".

But the whole summer goes by, and nothing...and then out of no where, a 2yr deal is signed for O'Reilly in the KHL.

To be THAT CLOSE and then suddenly far apart? I'm saying what I've maintained this whole time, WE don't know the whole situation, we don't know what he's asking for, but based on the little info that TPS has given us, something happened to cause the negotiations to turn the way that they did

People are obviously able to agree or disagree with me on my stance, that's fine, I'll respect you all the same

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01-23-2013, 07:11 PM
  #331
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Too much stock in what TPS said. He isnt even around to give us any information any more. Second, doesnt matter what happened before we know this team doesnt like players holding out and ROR made his move. Management will not move so RoR signs for what hes worth or he is no longer an Av. Put stock in this if you want, most wont but RoR is done in the burgundy and blue. Next step is simply what happens next. I hope im wrong, but if he isnt signed soon and this season goes by without him its all over

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01-23-2013, 07:14 PM
  #332
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We know Avs are still offering the same that they did this summer. So if they were close then and far away now it must mean O'Reilly is asking for more now than he did then. Alternatively they weren't that close back then.

The second or third hand info we get from TPS, while interesting, isn't an objective view of what has transpired.

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01-23-2013, 07:57 PM
  #333
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So, how about the opportunity to get rid of a Meehan client while bringing in some offensive help?

To COL: Matthieu Perreault
To WSH: Ryan Wilson

Eh?

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01-23-2013, 08:04 PM
  #334
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No need for Perrault. Big need, as sad as it may be, for Wilson. He's playing 20+ minutes for us.

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01-23-2013, 08:06 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
We know Avs are still offering the same that they did this summer. So if they were close then and far away now it must mean O'Reilly is asking for more now than he did then. Alternatively they weren't that close back then.

The second or third hand info we get from TPS, while interesting, isn't an objective view of what has transpired.
Sure, it's not like his info has been proven correct in the past. And it's not like he has admitted when information he got turned out to be wrong.

People can say that we're "putting too much stock in what he says", but he is a legitimate contact. He has legitimate ties to several NHL players, some of whom play for the Avalanche.

And it's not as if TPS has misrepresented himself, he has come out and said first hand that he is a FRIEND to these players first, and an Avalanche fan second, so he has admitted that he would be bias.

But it hasn't precluded him from giving the information that is relevant.

I do find it funny that for years, a lot of posters around here had talked so much trash towards the Denver Post/AD/Chambers, but now, they're reporting contract numbers and suddenly they're speaking gospel?

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01-23-2013, 08:17 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
No need for Perrault. Big need, as sad as it may be, for Wilson. He's playing 20+ minutes for us.
Seriously, 20+ mins? I had no idea. Maybe at some point this season the Avs will play and I will get to watch!

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01-23-2013, 08:21 PM
  #337
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If you want to belive TPS providing objective information about this over McKenzie, Dater, Kypreos, LeBrun and others, that's your prerogative. I have no reason to believe that TPS isn't relaying what he is told. I am just saying what he is told most likely isn't the most objective view of what has transpired. The upset guy in Russia holding out most likely doesn't view things the same as the other side.

Anyway, this is OT in the trade thread and I'm not sure we'll get further. Lets agree to disagree on what weight to put on TPSs information.

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01-23-2013, 08:37 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
If you want to belive TPS providing objective information about this over McKenzie, Dater, Kypreos, LeBrun and others, that's your prerogative. I have no reason to believe that TPS isn't relaying what he is told. I am just saying what he is told most likely isn't the most objective view of what has transpired. The upset guy in Russia holding out most likely doesn't view things the same as the other side.

Anyway, this is OT in the trade thread and I'm not sure we'll get further. Lets agree to disagree on what weight to put on TPSs information.
Fair enough, I respect your opinion, as I believe you respect mine.

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Old
01-23-2013, 08:38 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I have a feeling Avs front office would have a completely different version of what happened. I'd be surprised they would agree with the sides being close to an agreement, considering how far apart they are now. Or are you suggesting O'Reilly got so angry that he increased his demands?
This is the one part of that situation that never made sense to me. They were close, and something happened, and then he increased his demands? That would be absolutely ridiculous.

I'll float a speculative guess that maybe they were close on the two year deal at $3.5M per, but then something happened, and he abandoned the two year deal, in favor of the long term one. Then signed the KHL deal, which likely made the $3.5M per not enough to break the deal.

Just a thought.

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01-23-2013, 08:42 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
This is the one part of that situation that never made sense to me. They were close, and something happened, and then he increased his demands? That would be absolutely ridiculous.

I'll float a speculative guess that maybe they were close on the two year deal at $3.5M per, but then something happened, and he abandoned the two year deal, in favor of the long term one. Then signed the KHL deal, which likely made the $3.5M per not enough to break the deal.

Just a thought.
Or possibly some disagreement on what role he would have on the team if he signed a bridge deal. I could understand that O'Reilly would want a chance to put up offensive numbers if he was going to have two years to define what type of player he is and earn a big contract. With Stastny and a healthy Duchene on the team, I could see how that would be a concern.

Him wanting a clarification of that is understandable and I could see how he would switch to a long term contract preference if he wasn't convinced about what role he would have.

Just wild speculation of course.

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01-23-2013, 08:47 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
This is the one part of that situation that never made sense to me. They were close, and something happened, and then he increased his demands? That would be absolutely ridiculous.

I'll float a speculative guess that maybe they were close on the two year deal at $3.5M per, but then something happened, and he abandoned the two year deal, in favor of the long term one. Then signed the KHL deal, which likely made the $3.5M per not enough to break the deal.

Just a thought.
Maybe they were never close to begin with.

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Old
01-23-2013, 09:09 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Maybe they were never close to begin with.
TPS said that they were close , i trust him with his infos .

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01-23-2013, 10:08 PM
  #343
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If they're not going to budge on ROR, Arnott and Sykora for 1 year stopgaps please. I don't believe we have the depth to replace Downie via trade.

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01-23-2013, 10:24 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
If they're not going to budge on ROR, Arnott and Sykora for 1 year stopgaps please. I don't believe we have the depth to replace Downie via trade.
It doesn't seem to be Avs style to get a veteran UFA like that. It'll be interesting to see what happens. My guess is we'll use LEM players if we get hit by injuries.

Brunette hasn't officially retired, but he probably doesn't have anything left in the tank.

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01-23-2013, 10:54 PM
  #345
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Brunette hasn't officially retired, but he probably doesn't have anything left in the tank.
He doesn't. He proved that in Chicago last season.

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01-23-2013, 11:17 PM
  #346
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It doesn't seem to be Avs style to get a veteran UFA like that. It'll be interesting to see what happens. My guess is we'll use LEM players if we get hit by injuries.

Brunette hasn't officially retired, but he probably doesn't have anything left in the tank.
It's definitely not their style but I sometimes wish it was. Neither of those guys probably have much left but its a short season and I'm willing to bet they're still more effective than the Malones, Olvers, and Sgarbossa's of the world.

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01-23-2013, 11:20 PM
  #347
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Going with one of the younger players already in the system is probably a better option than signing a 36 year old Sykora or 38 year old Arnott. There's a reason why they've been sitting there since July. The Canucks, who are a contender, would rather play Ebbott on the second line than sign Arnott (for now anyways).

Or maybe use the money you would give Arnott/Sykora and pay O'Reilly more than $3.5M

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01-23-2013, 11:28 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Going with one of the younger players already in the system is probably a better option than signing a 36 year old Sykora or 38 year old Arnott. There's a reason why they've been sitting there since July. The Canucks, who are a contender, would rather play Ebbott on the second line than sign Arnott (for now anyways).

Or maybe use the money you would give Arnott/Sykora and pay O'Reilly more than $3.5M
Arnott and Langenbrunner helped St. Louis last season for example in limited roles. Obviously guys like this are not a great option, but I personally don't think a Malone-Mitchell-Hejduk third line is particularly useful either. I'd rather at least have some leadership in the room.

As for the O'reilly dig, it's not really an issue about the dollar amount this particular year since they can obviously afford to pay him whatever, it's about avoiding giving him an inflationary contract that will affect our future RFAs (and league wide).

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01-24-2013, 01:39 AM
  #349
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Regardless of the ROR situation, please don't trade the first this year Sherman

Oh and here is the newest plan in the Tank for Seth-section provided by our friends over at the Leafs board:

Gardiner + Grabovski + MacArthur + 2nd for Duchene + O'Reilly

I think they put a well thought proposal on the table right here.

If we do this trade I can't see us not getting Savior Seth
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

leafs fans can eat one.

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01-24-2013, 09:42 AM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Or possibly some disagreement on what role he would have on the team if he signed a bridge deal. I could understand that O'Reilly would want a chance to put up offensive numbers if he was going to have two years to define what type of player he is and earn a big contract. With Stastny and a healthy Duchene on the team, I could see how that would be a concern.

Him wanting a clarification of that is understandable and I could see how he would switch to a long term contract preference if he wasn't convinced about what role he would have.

Just wild speculation of course.
This is close to what I think probably happened. Agreed that it's wild speculation, but plausible - more plausible IMHO than ROR simply coming out of the gate wanting $5m/yr.

i.e. Avs offer Duchenes 2/7 deal. ROR camp was thinking 2/7.5 or 2/8 based on the idea that his breakout year establishes him as a legit 2nd line offensive threat along with elite defense, plus captain-level intangibles. Avs don't want to pay him any more than Duchene, so they argue their side. Maybe something along these lines
- Landy helped ROR more than the other way round
- countered the intangibles w/ Landy, culminating in naming him captain
- knew that their plans were Landy/Duchene/PAP, so ROR was back to a clear 3rd line role - indicated this either directly or indirectly via comparables.

Given this, you can see ROR being a bit sensitive and saying 'fine, if you're taking away my chance to put up offensive numbers which would help in my next contract, I'd prefer something longer. If that's going to include some UFA years, then the price goes up'.

IMHO neither side comes out of this looking great.

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