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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXXI

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Old
02-08-2013, 08:01 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Odd question. You have some inside info on Burke becoming the GM of a team with lots of cap space?
I was just browsing through the UFA list and was trying to figure out what players are likely to get wildly overpaid this summer. Physical forwards with goal scoring ability seems like a good bet. It seems every contender wants to be hard to play against and there will be a bidding war for players like this. Lucic making $6M/year is an example.

Getzlaf would also belong to this group, but I think he'll re-sign with Ducks.

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02-08-2013, 08:07 PM
  #927
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Has anyone been catching that NYR thread lately? It's hilarious how backwards their logic is.

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02-08-2013, 08:56 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Has anyone been catching that NYR thread lately? It's hilarious how backwards their logic is.
I haven't, and don't have a desire to go into threads that might make me want to give responses that will get me infracted and whatnot.

What's happening in it?

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:00 PM
  #929
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The usual. Our players are scrubs who haven't proven anything yet, and last year was an aberration for ROR. Meanwhile, their young players have proven themselves to be the best in the league after a year or two. For their guys, they're already stars who will only rise, while our mediocre players fall.

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:21 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
I heard a couple of nights ago , on TSN , that there was a rumour sending Yandle to the Flyers . Have you heard anything like that in PHX ?
I think by now Yandle has been linked to any and every team with a few young forwards to spare. The Coyotes would undoubtedly be asking for Couturier, who was technically born in Phoenix. If the Coyotes are off to QC, I think you guys will be packing Stastny's bags one way or the other. I could see Roy or whomever is the GM there doing something really stupid to acquire a few name brand players for a Quebec franchise.

I think a handful of us are planning to become Avs fans if the team moves, depending on what happens with Tippett/Maloney/Doan. Both Tip and Maloney aren't under contract past this season, so I secretly hope they end up somewhere together (maybe even Colorado) to make the transition easy for us.

Cheers

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02-08-2013, 09:34 PM
  #931
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I think by now Yandle has been linked to any and every team with a few young forwards to spare. The Coyotes would undoubtedly be asking for Couturier, who was technically born in Phoenix. If the Coyotes are off to QC, I think you guys will be packing Stastny's bags one way or the other. I could see Roy or whomever is the GM there doing something really stupid to acquire a few name brand players for a Quebec franchise.

I think a handful of us are planning to become Avs fans if the team moves, depending on what happens with Tippett/Maloney/Doan. Both Tip and Maloney aren't under contract past this season, so I secretly hope they end up somewhere together (maybe even Colorado) to make the transition easy for us.

Cheers
Not a big fan of Tippett's style but it sure is effective and he's one hell of a coach. Getting Maloney and Tippett would be awesome for the Avs. Unfortunately it'll never happen as long as Pierre Lacroix is with the Avs.

I think they should just do the Stastny for Yandle trade right now.

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02-08-2013, 09:44 PM
  #932
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Please no Tippet in Colorado, might as well cancel the youth movement if we brought him in.

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02-08-2013, 09:54 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Please no Tippet in Colorado, might as well cancel the youth movement if we brought him in.
If it means more wins and playoff appearances then I say **** the youth movement.

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02-08-2013, 09:54 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Has anyone been catching that NYR thread lately? It's hilarious how backwards their logic is.
Yeah... I know quite a bit about O'Reilly's play over the last three years as well. I even did a write up of how close O'Reilly was to all the actual Selke nominees last year.

There was at least one stat that he beat each player in, and was competitive when compared to the rest in every other stat.

There was one big difference between O'Reilly and all of the other Selke candidates to be honest, and that was +/-. If he was in the group of 4 or 5 (Can't remember which), he would have been the only player without a significant plus rating. Everyone had something like +15 or better and O'Reilly was -1 if I remember right.

I'm not sure I would really call O'Reilly a #1 center regardless of where he played on our team last year though. Yes his Selke level defense adds a serious dimension when added to his 50+ points, but I think he needs to be closer to 60+ points over and 82 game season before he could be called a bonafied #1 center.

O'Reilly really fell off in the second half of the season last year, and was clearly burnt out. The funny thing is that Landeskog actually picked up his game in the second half and scored at a 30 goal pace in the second half. Which should of meant more points for O'Reilly but it didn't

O'Reilly really does have some things to prove yet... Based on what we know I don't think his defense is going anywhere but the big question is as to if he can match or beat his 55 point production. It's a little unfortunate for him that he has decided to hold out because we would not of been able to judge him over 82 games this season. He would of had a much better chance of putting up a 70 point pace to be honest. Especially with the way Stastny started out, he would of became our #1B center almost immediately.

He's lost that opportunity or most of it anyways...

The thing is, McDonagh has a lot to prove as well. Both O'Reilly and McDonagh have the potential to be #1's in their respective positions which also have comparable value. MDZ has a bit of a 'shinny new toy' thing that's going on with him right now combined with his cheap contract. Hes stepped up in McDonagh's scoring drought, good for him. Will he keep up both his two way play and the offense? No one knows...

It's not quite the same but look at the trouble Gardiner & Kulikov have had keeping their play consistent after having already shown the ability to bring their game at a certain level. It's always 'what have you done for me lately' when it comes to how fans value players.

One of the main reasons I want Yandle and not one of these young 'new things' on defense is because hes shown consistency, and hes even put up better numbers in the past than he is producing right now. These very young defenders are so up and down, and when they are up they are untouchable and seriously overrated as the next Norris candidate.

Another thing about O'Reilly is the fact that he wasn't even barely on the map before last year, as far as having his defensive prowess noticed by other teams fans. So how he played those prior years basically does not matter and it wont when talking to another teams fan base.

The problem with these young medium sized offensive defenders is that if they regress, their value drops on such a massive level it's crazy. If O'Reilly does not put up 60 points a year hes still seriously valuable in the defense and intangibles he brings. Hes the 'safer' bet IMO... Which gives his value a bump (again IMO).

MDZ & McDonagh don't have Johnson's size to add to their skating and defensive prowess. Look how valuable EJ still is even without his offense. These guys just don't have that going for them and there is no safety net at all.

Think about M. Staal, his offensive ability hasn't blown up into the 40 plus point level but hes still at least a #2 level defender like EJ. I'm just really worried about trading for some of these young offensive #1/2 defenders. Obviously young players are going to have their ups and downs but it's hard to tell and even harder to sell as to which one or at what level their play will continue with consistency.

Yandle is the safest guy we could go after IMO. Ok, crap I wasn't planning on writing this much but I went off on a bit of a tangent, because I've been staying out of those threads for the most part but they are getting under my skin a bit. (But so is this team in general...)


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Old
02-08-2013, 09:57 PM
  #935
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I think by now Yandle has been linked to any and every team with a few young forwards to spare. The Coyotes would undoubtedly be asking for Couturier, who was technically born in Phoenix. If the Coyotes are off to QC, I think you guys will be packing Stastny's bags one way or the other. I could see Roy or whomever is the GM there doing something really stupid to acquire a few name brand players for a Quebec franchise.

I think a handful of us are planning to become Avs fans if the team moves, depending on what happens with Tippett/Maloney/Doan. Both Tip and Maloney aren't under contract past this season, so I secretly hope they end up somewhere together (maybe even Colorado) to make the transition easy for us.

Cheers
That's a pleasant thought after Granato and Sacco.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:06 PM
  #936
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Please no Tippet in Colorado, might as well cancel the youth movement if we brought him in.
They've done a pretty good job with players like OEL, Yandle, and Hanzal.

Duchene, Landeskog, and O'Reilly (if he returns) are already better than Turris and Mueller ever were. All three of them are also reliable so Tippett would have no problem giving them ice time.

No need to worry though, David Quinn will continue the recent losing tradition in Colorado.

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02-08-2013, 11:50 PM
  #937
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They've done a pretty good job with players like OEL, Yandle, and Hanzal.

Duchene, Landeskog, and O'Reilly (if he returns) are already better than Turris and Mueller ever were. All three of them are also reliable so Tippett would have no problem giving them ice time.

No need to worry though, David Quinn will continue the recent losing tradition in Colorado.
Tippett does great with defensive players and grinders, but the moment he's handed a scorer who shockingly doesn't play a solid two-way game, the kid lands in the doghouse and never gets out. He's drummed out Mueller and Turris, and probably on his way to sending Boedker on his merry way. No idea on Tikhonov, he might've just been a bust.

Tippett's actually the perfect guy for Phoenix. He can make a winner out of a team with a very limited budget. But I don't think he'll ever be able to make that team a Stanley Cup winner, just like Trotz in Nashville. No offense to Tippett, but I'd rather have a guy who touts speed, a strong forecheck, and scoring over a guy who relies so much on defense and trapping. I know...beggars can't be choosers, but one would hope we'd get a coach who'd tout a style that gets rear ends in the seats.

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02-09-2013, 01:07 AM
  #938
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I think Tippett gets kind of a bad rap on hfboards because he doesn't treat prospects like the golden boys hfboards thinks they are. He's got an old school mentality where you earn your role, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. Hartley and Quenneville were the same way. People were saying the same thing about Hitchcock, now he's labelled a genius while coaching a young team.

I don't think it's totally accurate to say he's a defensive/grinder type coach. That might be true right now in Phoenix, but I think that shows his adaptability. His roster is less than stellar due to budget, turnover, and that whole mess they have going on, but he's still able to get great results. That team is constantly thought to be a lottery team and he has them playing well and in the playoff hunt every year. I think that speaks volumes to his ability. Look back at his Dallas teams and you'll see some damn good teams without those restrictions. Sure they were strong defensively, but more often than not they were still top-10 in scoring as well. Guys like Ribeiro, Richards, Modano, Arnott, Morrow, and Jussi Jokinen (this might be a stretch, but he was terribad outside of Dallas) not only played well for him, but I'd say they thrived. If Turco didn't **** the bed so badly in the playoffs he might have more to show for his time down there.

In all he's only missed the playoffs once as a coach, and only has one season with less than 97 points. I'd love to see him behind our bench if he's available this summer, I think he'd do wonders turning our cluster**** into an actual team.

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02-09-2013, 07:11 AM
  #939
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I think Tippett gets kind of a bad rap on hfboards because he doesn't treat prospects like the golden boys hfboards thinks they are. He's got an old school mentality where you earn your role, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. Hartley and Quenneville were the same way. People were saying the same thing about Hitchcock, now he's labelled a genius while coaching a young team.

I don't think it's totally accurate to say he's a defensive/grinder type coach. That might be true right now in Phoenix, but I think that shows his adaptability. His roster is less than stellar due to budget, turnover, and that whole mess they have going on, but he's still able to get great results. That team is constantly thought to be a lottery team and he has them playing well and in the playoff hunt every year. I think that speaks volumes to his ability. Look back at his Dallas teams and you'll see some damn good teams without those restrictions. Sure they were strong defensively, but more often than not they were still top-10 in scoring as well. Guys like Ribeiro, Richards, Modano, Arnott, Morrow, and Jussi Jokinen (this might be a stretch, but he was terribad outside of Dallas) not only played well for him, but I'd say they thrived. If Turco didn't **** the bed so badly in the playoffs he might have more to show for his time down there.

In all he's only missed the playoffs once as a coach, and only has one season with less than 97 points. I'd love to see him behind our bench if he's available this summer, I think he'd do wonders turning our cluster**** into an actual team.
Nice history recap.

Sounds great, where do I sign?!

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:32 AM
  #940
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Radar and Yandle are not that close in value. Yandle is an All Star top pairing defenseman, and the Yotes don't have to move him. The Avs are more desperate, and have to entice them enough to move him.

It's a matter of overpaying by a little bit with a draft pick to get a signed player that you desperately need. 1st's are handed out like candy at trade deadline for rental players.
Avs have to move Radar and their 1st round pick? This isn't overpaying by a little and it's extremely shortsighted. Avs would be trading a 21 year old center with elite defense and a very high pick for a really good defenseman who's not as good defensively as advertised, he's most likely the most sheltered high profile defenseman in the entire NHL who starts most of his shifts in the o-zone and a 4th liner. Call me crazy, but Colorado could get a much better return if they were to trade those two assets. In terms of c ontract years, we trade 4 years of Radar and 7 years of our draft pick for 3 years of Yandle and 30 games of Boyd Gordon. I don't see how anyone could think this is a good deal.

The shortsighted part of this trade is the fact that Colorado could very easily lose Stastny to FA and then what, they roll Duchene, Sgarbossa (who did prove anything), Mitchell and Gordon as their centers? Imagine if Dutch has another injury riddled year, it would be beyond terrible.

As for trading 1st round picks for rental, the teams involved in trades like that are contenders, not lottery teams.

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02-09-2013, 11:09 AM
  #941
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Avs have to move Radar and their 1st round pick? This isn't overpaying by a little and it's extremely shortsighted. Avs would be trading a 21 year old center with elite defense and a very high pick for a really good defenseman who's not as good defensively as advertised, he's most likely the most sheltered high profile defenseman in the entire NHL who starts most of his shifts in the o-zone and a 4th liner. Call me crazy, but Colorado could get a much better return if they were to trade those two assets. In terms of c ontract years, we trade 4 years of Radar and 7 years of our draft pick for 3 years of Yandle and 30 games of Boyd Gordon. I don't see how anyone could think this is a good deal.

The shortsighted part of this trade is the fact that Colorado could very easily lose Stastny to FA and then what, they roll Duchene, Sgarbossa (who did prove anything), Mitchell and Gordon as their centers? Imagine if Dutch has another injury riddled year, it would be beyond terrible.

As for trading 1st round picks for rental, the teams involved in trades like that are contenders, not lottery teams.
Your guy's logic with this Stastny thing doesn't make any sense to me. O'Reilly is not on the team, and there isn't a whole lot of reason to think he will be. This fantasy Stastny situation some of you are talking about can happen no matter what. Except they have two UFA periods, two drafts, and basically two seasons to trade or find a replacement for him somehow. It's not as simple as do they keep O'Reilly or Stastny. O'Reilly isn't on the team, and unless he backs off his ridiculous demands, he's not going to be so we're stick with Stastny and Duchene no matter what.

Bringing in a 26 year old All Star defenseman under contract for four more years at a very reasonable $5.25M is not shortsighted. He' s a long term solution to the Avs biggest problem, and he's entering the prime of his career. He's not a stud defensively, but he's not the complete sheltered sieve you're making him out to be either. He's put up 59 points in a more defensive system, with less talented forwards just a couple years ago, and has 19 points in 27 playoff games. This is a very good player we're talking about here, and the exact kind of player the Avs have been missing since Blake left. Plus he's a big time leader. Blake wasn't a stud defensively either, but he brought a big element to the team that helped them win games.

I don't care that much about a pick outside the top five or more so top ten. Everyone overvalues draft picks that are outside the can't miss guys. You know how many players this team has taken in the first round that turned into good NHL players in the last 13 years? Just one, Shattenkirk, and he's still young. Busts like Johansson, Nederost, Kuleshov, or flash in the pans with work ethic problems like Wolski and Stewart, or injury riddled guys like Hishon, these are the kind of guys you might end up with. It's not a slam dunk by any means that you'll get a stud. Exchange those guy's names for the 1st, and I'm sure you'll change your tune on what an overpayment it would be.

Besides, this team does better in the 2nd round, than most teams or even themselves do outside the top 10 in the 1st. They'll pick up someone for the future, and in the meantime they'd have an All Star under contract for a few years that can help them now. The kind of player they would be hard pressed to find in the draft anyway. If they could get him for Stastny instead, and can get Ryan to sign at $3.5M short term, or $4M long term then absolutely that's a better option, but I don't think either of those things are happening. Instead they're sitting here losing, with no Yandle, no O'Reilly, and Stastny in the same position you're worried about.


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Old
02-09-2013, 11:14 AM
  #942
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Speaking of healthy scratches again... Looks like it's Tyler Myers turn to be sent a wake up call today. He has been awful.

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02-09-2013, 11:20 AM
  #943
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Your guy's logic with this Stastny thing doesn't make any sense to me. O'Reilly is not on the team, and there isn't a whole lot of reason to think he will be. This fantasy Stastny situation some of you are talking about can happen no matter what. Except they have two UFA periods, two drafts, and basically two seasons to trade or find a replacement for him somehow. It's not as simple as do they keep O'Reilly or Stastny. O'Reilly isn't on the team, and unless he backs off his ridiculous demands, he's not going to be so we're stick with Stastny and Duchene no matter what.

Bringing in a 26 year old All Star defenseman under contract for four more years at a very reasonable $5.25M is not shortsighted. He' s a long term solution to a the Avs biggest problem, and he's entering the prime of his career. He's not a stud defensively, but he's not the complete sheltered sieve you're making him out to be either. He's put up 59 points in a more defensive system, with less talented forwards just a couple years ago, and has 19 points in 27 playoff games. This is a very good player we're talking about here, and the exact kind of player the Avs have been missing since Blake left. Blake wasn't a stud defensively either, but he brought a big element to the team that helped them win games.

I don't care that much about a pick outside the top five or more so top ten. Everyone overvalues draft picks that are outside the can't miss guys. You know how many players this team has taken in the first round that turned into good NHL players in the last 13 years? Just one, Shattenkirk, and he's still young. Busts like Johansson, Nederost, Kuleshov, or flash in the pans with work ethic problems like Wolski and Stewart, or injury riddled guys like Hishon, these are the kind of guys you might end up with. It's not a slam dunk by any means that you'll get a stud. Exchange those guy's names for the 1st, and I'm sure you'll change your tune on what an overpayment it would be.

Besides, this team does better in the 2nd round, than most teams or even themselves do outside the top 10 in the 1st. They'll pick up someone for the future, and in the meantime they'd have an All Star under contract for a few years that can help them now. The kind of player they would be hard pressed to find in the draft anyway.
Where did I call Yandle a sieve? What I said about him being sheltered is absolute truth wheather you like to hear that or no. And yes our 1st rounder could end up as a bust, but it could just as easiyl become a very good hockey player, value wise Radar plus 1st makes no sense whatsoever.

FTR I'm not completely against trading Radar, I'm just against trading him for Yandle and Boyd freaking Gordon. Deals like Sbisa + Holland, Gorges + Eller or any other deals that follow that blueprint (young(ish) LH d-man + a good young center) are deals I would look to make if we're forced to trade O'Reilly.

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02-09-2013, 11:34 AM
  #944
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Where did I call Yandle a sieve? What I said about him being sheltered is absolute truth wheather you like to hear that or no. And yes our 1st rounder could end up as a bust, but it could just as easiyl become a very good hockey player, value wise Radar plus 1st makes no sense whatsoever.

FTR I'm not completely against trading Radar, I'm just against trading him for Yandle and Boyd freaking Gordon. Deals like Sbisa + Holland, Gorges + Eller or any other deals that follow that blueprint (young(ish) LH d-man + a good young center) are deals I would look to make if we're forced to trade O'Reilly.
You didn't use the word sieve, I did, but you were painting a picture that he was sheltered and potentially a big liability defensively. Sure he may be sheltered a little bit, but that's not a big deal unless his defensive game is like Barrie or Hunwick's. It's not. They have some very good defenseman over there that they'd rather have out in defensive situations. Like I said, Blake was not all that great defensively either, but he was good enough, played a physical style like Yandle, was a leader like Yandle, was a big point machine like Yandle, and a clutch contributor like Yandle.

Boyd Gordon is a very good defensive player, and would immediately improve this teams PK, and defensively five on five on the bottom lines. He's very good on faceoffs, and can play center or wing. Plus they have the ability to negotiate with him and re-sign him. He's basically exactly what they lost in McClement. He may not be a superstar, but he's no scrub. He would help this team no doubt about it.

A situation were they could find a very good NHLer outside the top ten isn't a big prioity for this team. They have Duchene, Landeskog, EJ, and Varly to build around. What they need and is more important than potentially finding a second line forward, or hoping to get lucky and get a first line forward, is getting a defenseman that they'll almost never come out of a draft with, and who's ready now and they don't have to wait 5 years to develop him. Or in the case of the Avs, not develop him.

Sure there could, and probably will be a player outside the top ten that becomes a good NHLer. But how likely is it that they'll become an untradeable superstar? And how likely is it that the Avs will see that player's potential? And how likely is it that he will be available when the Avs pick? And how likely is it that the Avs end up picking that player?

Unless we're talking about guys in the top five who's probability is that high that they'll be stars, taking advantage of a situation where you have the assets to acquire a defenseman that doesn't become available too often is more important IMO. I'm happy ending up with the best player in the deal just like the Avs did with EJ, and just like the Avs did when they gave up a 1st and a heart and soul guy in Deadmarsh to land Blake.

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02-09-2013, 11:41 AM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
You didn't use the word sieve, I did, but you were painting a picture that he was sheltered and potentially a big liability defensively. Sure he may be sheltered a little bit, but that's not a big deal unless his defensive game is like Barrie or Hunwick's. It's not. They have some very good defenseman over there that they'd rather have out in defensive situations. Like I said, Blake was not all that great defensively either, but he was good enough, played a physical style like Yandle, was a leader like Yandle, was a big point machine like Yandle, and a clutch contributor like Yandle.

A situation were they could find a very good NHLer outside the top ten isn't a big prioity for this team. They have Duchene, Landeskog, EJ, and Varly to build around. What they need and is more important than potentially finding a second line forward, or hoping to get lucky and get a first line forward, is getting a defenseman that they'll almost never come out of a draft with, and who's ready now and they don't have to wait 5 years to develop him. Or in the case of the Avs, not develop him.

Sure there could, and probably will be a player outside the top ten that becomes a good NHLer. But how likely is it that they'll become an untradeable superstar? And how likely is it that the Avs will see that player's potential? And how likely is it that he will be available when the Avs pick? And how likely is it that the Avs end up picking that player?

Unless we're talking about guys in the top five who's probability is that high that they'll be stars, taking advantage of a situation where you have the assets to acquire a defenseman that doesn't become available too often is more important IMO. I'm happy ending up with the best player in the deal just like the Avs did with EJ, and just like the Avs did when they gave up a 1st and a heart and soul guy in Deadmarsh to land Blake.
With the way the Avs are playing now that pick most likely is close to top five. If that's the case there is almost no way they don't get an impact player out of the draft. It would be crazy to trade that pick.

Players like Barkov, Mackinnon, Jones and Possibly Drouin and Lindholm could all step in and make impacts next year. Why trade what is likely two core players for a short term fix.

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02-09-2013, 12:11 PM
  #946
Freudian
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Avs aren't trading their first round pick this year. Don't be silly.

I'd be surprised to see many first rounders traded without protection clauses. The new lottery rules completely changed the value of first rounders.

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02-09-2013, 01:33 PM
  #947
niwotsblessing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
You know how many players this team has taken in the first round that turned into good NHL players in the last 13 years?
When did Rick Pracey become our draft guru? Duchene, Landeskog are looking good to me. Hishon is not a bust, he sustained a bad injury from which he may not recover. Siemens is progressing as a defenseman should. I like our recent track record in the first round, and overall as well. Oh, and we used one pick as part of the deal for Varly, which I am quite happy with, guy just needs a decent defense in front of him.

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02-09-2013, 02:38 PM
  #948
Ivan13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Avs aren't trading their first round pick this year. Don't be silly.

I'd be surprised to see many first rounders traded without protection clauses. The new lottery rules completely changed the value of first rounders.
Agreed wholeheartedly.

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02-09-2013, 03:02 PM
  #949
RobinDIF
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I know we have **** loads of depth d-man but Douglas Murray is now a healthy scratch for San Jose. I love him.

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02-09-2013, 03:06 PM
  #950
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I know we'd probably be disappointed with the return if we do trade O'Reilly, but I'd like:

O'Reilly + Wilson + Barrie/Elliot for:

Little + Bogosian/Enstrom
OR
Weiss + Kulikov

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